Would you be offended

[Xia]

When people do somthing terribly evil like slavery, a holocaust, an atomic bombing, its not like people forget about it in 25 years. Take the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for example, It was greatly overshadowed by the treachory of the holocaust but nobody forgot about it because of that. Nor have the Japanese forgotten about it over only 60 years. (Some Americans at my school however have).

 

[Godwynn]

I would be offended, and I'm agnostic. That is stepping over the line, and even for me, that line is far away.

 

[sealman]

If religions had special abilities. Eg muslims can build suicide bombers, christian crusaders, jew zionist.

If I were Muslim and the game gave the Muslim religion the special ability to build suicide bombers, I think I would be offended.

However, I would not be offended if each religion is given some special ability which is more in line with the religion's fundamental ideology, not because of the actions of some extremist nutcases.

 

[apatheist]

However, I would not be offended if each religion is given some special ability which is more in line with the religion's fundamental ideology, not because of the actions of some extremist nutcases.

That doesn't differentiate religions much. Basically, all theist religions state that one ought to be kind, humble, modest, and respectful of the divine. That's especially true of the Judaism/Christianity/Islam troika, which makes sense since they share a common heritage.

 

[sealman]

That doesn't differentiate religions much. Basically, all theist religions state that one ought to be kind, humble, modest, and respectful of the divine. That's especially true of the Judaism/Christianity/Islam troika, which makes sense since they share a common heritage.

True. And if more people realized this, we would have more religious tolorance.

 

[Japanrocks12]

The plane of religion should just graze the realm of Civ. Religions should not be treated as civilizations.

 

[Japanrocks12]

You can't make something like that disappear overnight. Slavery in the United States was abolished 140 some years ago, and yet...

No, I mean to say that the caste system is still there in India. It may be disappearing within the urban landscape, but the urban areas account for only a sliver of the big country.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I'd be offended by the stupidity in doing such an obvious PR blunder.

 

[bathsheba666]

If I were Muslim and the game gave the Muslim religion the special ability to build suicide bombers, I think I would be offended.

However, I would not be offended if each religion is given some special ability which is more in line with the religion's fundamental ideology, not because of the actions of some extremist nutcases.

I think it ought to be a feature than any religion can have loonies who can subvert the notional aims of the religion, with unfortunate consequences.

If we're having natural catastrophes like volcanoes, a few man-made delusional activities should be there to richen the mix.

 

[apatheist]

I think it ought to be a feature than any religion can have loonies who can subvert the notional aims of the religion, with unfortunate consequences.

That's a good idea, but I doubt they'll have that level of sophistication and independence of religions in civ4. Perhaps in civ5. It shares many things with the idea of religions splintering into sects, civilizations having civil wars, and having more irregular operatives (terrorists, guerillas, etc.). It's hard to see having one without having the others, which would create some substantial changes.

 

[sealman]

I think it ought to be a feature than any religion can have loonies who can subvert the notional aims of the religion, with unfortunate consequences.

If we're having natural catastrophes like volcanoes, a few man-made delusional activities should be there to richen the mix.

But that is a mis-conception. It is not religion, per se, that sparks terrorism. It is the political, social and moral beliefs of the individuals, both the terrorists and the victims. Some of those leaders use religious beliefs as a tool to convince their minions to stap a bomb to themselves and blow up something. And despite the leader's assertions, the point of the terrorist acts is for personnel and politcal gains, not religious ones.

 

[bman003]

Hey giving Islam bombers would be likegiving christians/chatholics crusaders! Sure throw it in on the mix, all religions are crazy anyways. Poor agnostics and athiest in civ they'll have no infulence in CIV IV, not even their ideas or thoughts. Maybe that should be changed!

 

[Markus6]

Poor agnostics and athiest in civ they'll have no infulence in CIV IV, not even their ideas or thoughts.

Well if their ideas and thoughts are that

all religions are crazy anyways

then it's probably for the best (disclaimer: not intended to insult atheists or agnostics).

Maybe giving Islam bombers wud be similar to giving Christians crusaders. But it's prejudice and offensive due to how recently terrorist attacks have taken place. The world already has a negative opinion of Muslims. This game should not reinforce misconceptions that will offend people who genuinely uphold that faith. Can everyone stop suggesting Islam should have suicide bombers or any sort of militant trait. It's just NOT in good taste.

 

[Xia]

Maybe giving Islam bombers wud be similar to giving Christians crusaders. But it's prejudice and offensive due to how recently terrorist attacks have taken place. The world already has a negative opinion of Muslims. This game should not reinforce misconceptions that will offend people who genuinely uphold that faith. Can everyone stop suggesting Islam should have suicide bombers or any sort of militant trait. It's just NOT in good taste.

Im gonna have to agree with Markus6. The game shouldnt do that because it would promote negativity based on religion and its not historically acurate. I wouldnt be offended but I wouldnt be suprised if someone was.

 

[bathsheba666]

But that is a mis-conception. It is not religion, per se, that sparks terrorism. It is the political, social and moral beliefs of the individuals, both the terrorists and the victims. Some of those leaders use religious beliefs as a tool to convince their minions to stap a bomb to themselves and blow up something. And despite the leader's assertions, the point of the terrorist acts is for personnel and politcal gains, not religious ones.

Err, you ought to re-read my post.
The only mis-conception I see is your assumption you understood what I was saying.
I was making a gameplay suggestion, not a critical analysis of either religion or terrorism.

In fact, I made no reference to terrorism. So your interpolation of my attitudes to its causes reveals a breathtaking leap of faith, or something.....

Some religious officials have used the religious beliefs of children to molest them. I assume it is as unfair to ascribe this attitude to the majority of churchmembers, as it is to assume all terrorists have the motivation you ascribe to them.

btw You seem to draw a distinction between religion, on the one hand, and political moral and social beliefs, on the other. Is the one not heavily influenced by the other?
Do you know what distinction you are drawing here?

Do you, by any chance, think that anyone labelled a terrorist by a western, corporate owned, commercial news offering is necessarily a bad person?

 

[bman003]

I think I was meaning to be sarcastic in my last reply. I was gonna right more but this is all too sticky... and Markus6 it's ok, I guess it is fine to use my statement to generalize an entire populace.

 

[rhialto]

Even if it weren't offensive, I wouldn't give a suicide bomber to Islam because it just isn't an effective weapon. It doesn't cause much actual physical damage to either people or structures overall. Unless of course it is done it such numbers that you start to depopulate your own cities, which has not been done nor is it likely.

The primary effect is actually spread fear and terror, and after the first few attacks, even that ceases to be effective. London after all is already so inured to terrorism that after the recent bombings, Londoners just shrugged their shoulders, buried and mourned the dead, and then carried on as usual.

A 14th century zealot might be more appropriate.

 

[sealman]

Err, you ought to re-read my post.
The only mis-conception I see is your assumption you understood what I was saying.
I was making a gameplay suggestion, not a critical analysis of either religion or terrorism.


In fact, I made no reference to terrorism. So your interpolation of my attitudes to its causes reveals a breathtaking leap of faith, or something.....

You right, I may have read more into your post than what you stated but my point still remains valid. While you never mentioned terrorism, you implied it. At least that is how I read it.

Some religious officials have used the religious beliefs of children to molest them. I assume it is as unfair to ascribe this attitude to the majority of churchmembers, as it is to assume all terrorists have the motivation you ascribe to them.

Yes, it is unfair to say that since some church officials have molested children that all churchmembers follow that belief. And I never said that the three items I listed in my post are the only things that motivate terrorists.

btw You seem to draw a distinction between religion, on the one hand, and political moral and social beliefs, on the other. Is the one not heavily influenced by the other?

Do you know what distinction you are drawing here?

It all depends. My personnel political believes draw no direct influence from my religous beliefs. However, my moral beliefs are founded in my religous ones.

While you state that you were making a gameplay suggestion, I will go back to the original poll of this thread and state that if the Muslim religion is given suicide bomber unit on the basis of the actions of the minority, I would be offended.

Would I still buy the game? Yes
Would I then mod out those types of units? Probably.

Do you, by any chance, think that anyone labelled a terrorist by a western, corporate owned, commercial news offering is necessarily a bad person?

That my friend is a loaded question but I will answer it this way: It all depends.

 

[Shevchenko]

I wouldn´t but you know how fanatics are, and if you don´t put a good one to critistans the pope is banning the game

 

[george_manet]

It seems to me that religion in civ IV is meant to be more of a political tool, and I think that this will not only make for a better game but for a more historically accurate one as well.
Religion has always been a political tool. The crusades were not about christianity, they were about Europeans taking wealth from the middle east. Christianity was just a convienient excuse. My point is that given the right social/political atmosphere, any religion can spawn extremists. This has very little to do with the specific religion, since the core beliefs of all major religions are pretty much the same (being good and virtuous and whatnot).

If religious fanatics are included in the game, they should become available based on your civics options (probably in theocracy) and not based on your civ's relilgion. And giving different types of fanatics to different religions would be pointless in terms of game play and would probably offend lots of people. (Not me, of course. I'm very open-minded...)