WW2- the european front

[chronos00]

For the religion piece. Germany and the Soviet Union never had a "state religion" but did use religion to gain power and control. Hitler through the Pope to gain "acceptance" from a large population of christians and Stalin through the Orthodox church to manipulate religion for his liking. You can argue either way, pending point of view.

I will give the mod a try later today (hopefully). I am very curious to see if there are specific units for each nation. There is so much that could be done, for example:

- English fighters (Spitfires): though not technologically better, they had better pilots, suggest an extra promotion.
- Russian tanks (T-39,42, etc): better armor and more firepower than the Panzer (till the Tiger came along), suggest increased strength by one or two.
- Russia by '42 outproduced the Germans but otherwise very limited, suggest slowing Russian productivity till factories are built and mines constructed in the Urals.
- Russian infantry: mass produced but very ill equiped, suggest lowering construction cost but either lowering strength or limiting features.
- Panzers: best mobile tanks in the war (overall) and much better experience, you can go many ways with this one.
- US bombers: overall much stonger and with a higher payload than any other country, you can go many ways with this one too.

These are but some ideas. Probably too early to throw those out, but I'm a WWII buff, couldn't help myself.

 

[Sid the Lucid]

Good ideas, although I think you meant Panther instead of Panzer. Panzer is simply the German word for tank. The Panther was the Pz V (roman numeral 5) and was arguably the best tank of the war, and more than a match for any T34 except the T34/85 with the 85mm gun. The 76mm gun simply could not penetrate the Panther's frontal armor reliably, whereas the Panther could pop any tank in the Soviet arsenol, including the IS2 and IS3 Stalin tanks (which were the heaviest Russian tanks). The T34 was also an excellent tank in general, and more mobile than German heavy tanks due in part to the Christie suspension.

If you intend to make custom armor units, the most common German armor unit should be the Pz IV, with the Panther being better but more expensive and taking longer to produce. For the Russians, the T34 is the best choice. American Shermans should have less strength, but possibly one higher movement and should be the cheapest MBT to produce. As for German Tigers, the early Tiger suffered from severe mechanical problems. It had the heaviest armor, but the Sovs managed to defeat Tigers in their first outing at Kursk by driving literally right up to them and firing point-blank. The later King Tiger, which came too late to see action in Russian, had the heaviest armor of all, as well as mounting the superb 88mm gun, and was the final step of German tank evolution in WW2 (well, the Panther 2 and the Maus would have been even more advanced, but they never made it to production before Berlin fell).

Making Russian infantry cost less but have less strength is a good idea IMO and a good way to model the superior raw manpower of the Soviet army.

 

[Koba the Dread]

Does anyone remember "Storm Over Europe" from CIV III? That scenario had the most complete listing of WWII units I have ever seen in any game (a close second is El Justo's "The Cold War").

Please excuse my ignorance, but what happens to be the issue with producing units for CIV IV? I recognize that re-skining a unit is relatively simple, but why has it been such slow going on new units?

And by the way, this scenario has a lot of potential and I can't wait till version 1.2.

 

[gerbilmuncher]

unfortunately i am a bit too un educated to create all of these custom units, flags etc.....if you want to make them yourself and send them to me ill do my best to include them in version 2....cheers

 

[eric_A]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what happens to be the issue with producing units for CIV IV? I recognize that re-skining a unit is relatively simple, but why has it been such slow going on new units?

I have been wondering about that myself. I have not seen a single
new mech, aircraft or warship unit that was not just a re-skin job.
(I have seen some infantry-type units).
Painting meatballs on a Spitfire doesn't make it a Zero!

Civ 4 has a very long way to go to achive the modding possibilties
of Civ 3.

 

[Matthaeus]

This scenario so far as lots of potential to be a great scenario. Lots of work to be done yet though.

 

[wotan321]

Speaking of Storm Over Europe, were you ever able to actually play that scenario? It was impressive, but just too big to be fun, unless all that mattered was having access to a complete inventory of all warring parties in WW2.

Civ4 holds the potential, due to events and moddablity, to really make a WW2 scenario entertaining to play. When the SDK is released in a few days (weeks) I expect to see an explosion of mods.

The WW2 scenario "ww2, small fast and beautiful" is off to a good start too, with unique units and promotions already. You two may want to compare notes.

I'd like to see a WW2 scenario start in 1933, when Hitler comes to power, since its arguable that the war was inevitible at that point.

 

[Koba the Dread]

Dear Wotan,

I did manage to play "Storm Over Europe", it was incredible and incredibly difficult. I got to some point in 1941 before it up and crashed for good.

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is the "SDK"?

If the scenario was to start in 1933, how could someone script events like Italy invading Ethiopia, the Spanish Civil War, Anschluss with Austria, remilitarization of the Rhineland, and the annexation of the Czech part of what was once Czechoslovakia? If those events could be played out, then the scenario would be truly amazing. But, you do have a good point. Starting in 1933 gives time to arm and attempt diplomacy to prolong the outbreak of war.

 

[Chibiabos]

If you think Hitler was Christian or that Nazi Germany was a christian state you better keep reading...

I did and it was, apparantly you missed it because, like raping choir boys, its just something swept under the rug and not talked about because, my goodness, pointing out the vile, evil actions of the church is heresy. I don't know what you are smoking to think Christianity is peaceful or just. Torture Jews over and over again in the Inquisition, and again when Hitler himself was raised as a Catholic and many historians agree that is where he got his extreme anti-semitism.

 

[Sid the Lucid]

Settle down.

I think you've got me all wrong. I'm an agnostic, and was not defending the church. It just doesn't seem accurate to me that Nazi Germany should adopt Christianity as it's religion in this scenario. I own and have read quite a bit of WW2 history, and no historian I can recall has characterized Hitler as being influenced much by Christianity, or much of anything else other than megalomania, let alone adopting a missionary attitude of spreading Christianity throughout the world.

In Civ, the main function of religion is to be propulgated around the globe to increase the happiness of your population. When I look at Nazi Germany, that's not what I see. Hitler may have claimed Christianity, but his practice of it was certainly a perversion of it, not a typical example IMO.

 

[Charles 22]

Good ideas, although I think you meant Panther instead of Panzer. Panzer is simply the German word for tank. The Panther was the Pz V (roman numeral 5) and was arguably the best tank of the war, and more than a match for any T34 except the T34/85 with the 85mm gun. The 76mm gun simply could not penetrate the Panther's frontal armor reliably, whereas the Panther could pop any tank in the Soviet arsenol, including the IS2 and IS3 Stalin tanks (which were the heaviest Russian tanks). The T34 was also an excellent tank in general, and more mobile than German heavy tanks due in part to the Christie suspension.

If you intend to make custom armor units, the most common German armor unit should be the Pz IV, with the Panther being better but more expensive and taking longer to produce. For the Russians, the T34 is the best choice. American Shermans should have less strength, but possibly one higher movement and should be the cheapest MBT to produce. As for German Tigers, the early Tiger suffered from severe mechanical problems. It had the heaviest armor, but the Sovs managed to defeat Tigers in their first outing at Kursk by driving literally right up to them and firing point-blank. The later King Tiger, which came too late to see action in Russian, had the heaviest armor of all, as well as mounting the superb 88mm gun, and was the final step of German tank evolution in WW2 (well, the Panther 2 and the Maus would have been even more advanced, but they never made it to production before Berlin fell).

Making Russian infantry cost less but have less strength is a good idea IMO and a good way to model the superior raw manpower of the Soviet army.

In terms of production, once the PZV was being made, it was actually being produced in greater numbers than the PZIV. The only advantage the PZIV had was that it was being built earlier in the war, though of course some of the earlier stuff wouldn't be used in battles anyway. It certainly took more material to make a PZV but they were actually out-pacing PZIV production in the same years. Some of the PZIV factories had probably been re-tooled to switch to PZV instead. So, on a tank-for-tank basis I can't disagree, necessarily, that the PZIV was easier to produce, I can just tell you it wasn't produced as much. IOW, the Panther didn't fall into the 'rare' category and once getting produced had the heaviest total for tank production each year. The only thing out-stripping it's production was the assault gun class (not a tank technically).

 

[AndyTerry]

What about religion - Stalin tried only to destroy orthodoxal church, because it was against bolsheviks' power and christian ideology was a rival of bolsheviks' one.

 

[AndyTerry]

But your mod is great one, really. I would recommend you to make 'communism' an official religion for the U.S.S.R. and 'fascism' for Hitler's Germany

 

[wotan321]

SDK = Software Developer Kit. Its supposed to be released any day now... it will allow folks to create new meshes for new units and alter the games programming. Hopefully it will also include all the info needed to create events more easily, and allow developers to create programs to easily mod.

As for the various civs religions, since all religions act the same in the generic game, who cares. Civics options are more important since they already do something. But perhaps religions in this mod could substitue for ideology, since Fascism and Bolshevism were dedicated to the other's destruction.

 

[Kushan]

SDK = Software Developer Kit. Its supposed to be released any day now... it will allow folks to create new meshes for new units and alter the games programming. Hopefully it will also include all the info needed to create events more easily, and allow developers to create programs to easily mod.

Not to mention adding new models, hopefully.

Painting meatballs on a Spitfire doesn't make it a Zero

Until SDK comes out all that can be done is reskinning. You are right though.

Kushan

 

[dreamcrusader]

great start! Looking foward to more custom units

 

[Synthshadow]

- Free France was destroyed by Hitler on the third turn. I'm not entirely sure if you should make Free France stronger in defence, or just remove them.


- I'm taking up a lot of forum space here, so this will be my last comment. For America, the leader is FDR. There is an FDR leaderhead prepackaged with the game. So, why are you using Washington? But anyway, I just wanted to say that this really is a fun scenario, and is a much needed first Civ IV WWII scenario. Great work!

I dont often comment (as you can probably tell) as much as id like because of work and if I can post on here, then Iam not working hard enough according to management! However as this scenario kept me up till 2 am and I had to be up at 6am that shows how fantastic this scenario is.

HOWEVER I must agree with RMM on the France bit, I wanted to liberate the cities to give back to Du Galle but realised on about the 3rd or 4th go the Panzer brigade bumsmacked the whole civ..... So as a little bit of a tweak I made Cyprus I cant remember the city name French so its kind of like government in exile, that way the French survive at least for now, I've restarted so Iam not far in but hopefully my plan'll work, anyone else use this tactic and tell me how it goes!

Plus the other thing I wanted to say was how do you change leaderheads? I want FDR for america and Napoleon for the French......

 

[Pegasos]

Im making Cold War too, but i dont know where to post it. I also have some Modding questions.

1. How can I change the starting year... Ive founded that if I use edit city or edit unit mode there is possibility to change starting year. It didn´t work.
2. How to slow down? It´s almays goes 1 year/turn and no can do. =(
3. How can I make civilizations, units and stuff? I just can´t unpack those folders.

Thanks for good scenario!

 

[gerbilmuncher]

there was a guide for modding about somewhere....

best way to change the dates etc is through windows notepad in my experience
although if you mess something up it can really bite you in the ass....

pretty sure theres a downloadable guide on the forums here somewhere....very helpful.....

cant find it at the mo......

good luck with your scenario.....will prob continue working on my own for now

 

[goonie61]

what is the size of this map?