You broke your promise to move your troops away from the border

[Anarchist]

OK, so I did.

My options were to declare war, or say 'no, I'm just passing through'. Neither were wanted. 10 turns later, when I was actually ready, then I declared war, and destroyed that irritating city that was taking so much of my precious jungle (I am Brazil). Now every civ dislikes me because I broke that 'promise'.

Does anyone know if there is a time-limit to this issue, or if I really have to keep all my troops away until they are ready (that is such a logistical pain without stacking)?

 

[steveg700]

OK, so I did.

My options were to declare war, or say 'no, I'm just passing through'. Neither were wanted. 10 turns later, when I was actually ready, then I declared war, and destroyed that irritating city that was taking so much of my precious jungle (I am Brazil). Now every civ dislikes me because I broke that 'promise'.

Does anyone know if there is a time-limit to this issue, or if I really have to keep all my troops away until they are ready (that is such a logistical pain without stacking)?

There's a time limit. No idea what it is. Long enough to be aggravating.

I really hate it, because you can't put the shoe on the other foot and tell the AI to stop shuffling around your borders.

Right now, you just gotta remember not to press a bunch of units right up against their border.

 

[dexters]

You did break your promise.

I believe it is effective for 50 turns.

<Row Name="BORDER_PROMISE_TURNS_EFFECTIVE">
			<Value>50</Value>

Even if you didn't know it was 50 turns, declaring war after 10 turns was essentially a lie. Most deals last 30 turns in this game.

The irony of course is you were preparting to attack all along but you just wasn't ;ready. I'm glad the game caught you out on it

 

[maxp]

chances are you will be considered a warmonger either way, so just lie anyway.

only way to stay on the AIs good books in war is to all denounce and pick on an AI one by one and always together as a group.

 

[dexters]

chances are you will be considered a warmonger either way, so just lie anyway.

only way to stay on the AIs good books in war is to all denounce and pick on an AI one by one and always together as a group.

His problem was he was going to attack, both options would be a lie. Shoulda DOW right then and there.

 

[Matthew.]

It is broken either way. I have plenty of screenshots of my troops just sitting in normal positions not even close to the border and I get the message. Of course I am biased, because I hate this part of the game, but I'd guess at least half the time I get the message I had no intentions of declaring war and was just moving units around the map or keeping my military near the edges of my empire.

Here is one that is especially irritating because I specifically kept my guys far back to try and avoid the diplo screen.



Note how 4 units are right next to my city or inside. The other 3 are still 4 tiles away from the Mayan city, all of which are on "my half". I had no plans of declaring war on the Maya as I just got done grabbing a few Swedish cities and I needed some time to focus on infrastructure. Now I cannot DoW for another 30 or 50 turns or whatever without getting a diplo hit with the entire world.

It is a stupid mechanic that never gets calculated correctly. The least the devs could do is remove the world-wide diplo hit and just give you a diplo hit against that one particular Civ.

 

[dexters]

^ That's close and if you had no intention to attack just say no and move on. If you were, looks like you had enough troops to take the city.

I've only gotten it accidentally a few times when I play usually when Im shifting my units from one front to another and my empire's territory has zig zaggy borders with another Civ. Most of the time though, I am massing to attack them and they caught it, so I just declare.

The OP was doing the same thing.

Two tiles is a good rule of thumb. More if their city is on a hill. If they can see your units, no forests/jungles blocking their LOS, they will count. In your case, its the Mayan pike who is well within sight range of your entire force and your forces that is causing the AI to ask you about your intentions. Also both cities are quite close. Typical of AI settlements so if you really had wanted to attack, your longswords could have surrounded his city in 1 turn. Regardless of which side of your own arbitrary line you think your parking your units.

As a mechanic 'stupid' is a strong word to use, especially if you're just annoyed because the game is smart enough to catch you doing what you intended to do all along. That's something that needs to be IN the game.

 

[Matthew.]

Well I was aiming for a domination-oriented game, but who knows what will happen in the next 50 turns? A game only lasts for ~300, the first 50 of which don't really count. 1/5 of the game I need to adapt my entire game-play around one random diplo screen that, like I said, doesn't even get calculated correctly half the time. I had no current intentions of taking the Mayan city--already had copper. Of course now I am forced to not take it for a huge chunk of the game, else pretty much screw over any future trade deals (war-monger + broken promise)

It is just more of the "AI plays by separate rules to cover poor programming". On the flip-side, I get to watch the AI dance units around all day long and all I can do is wait (if you try and be proactive about it, you are the enemy). One game I even settled two additional cities right in the middle of a huge Iroquois dance party, because I got tired of waiting for the DoW that may or may not eventually come.

 

[Chiatroll]

^ That's close and if you had no intention to attack just say no and move on. If you were, looks like you had enough troops to take the city.

I've gotten it a few times while staying tiles away form a civ sometimes just running out of space to shuffle in my borders while managing a large army.

The mechanic and most of diplomacy, could of been better written.

 

[MarshalN]

Yeah, it's nicer if we get the option too. At least that way they get diplo hit, whatever it means.

Also, because you have to declare on THEIR turn, you completely lose initiative.

 

[dexters]

Yeah I gotcha, you wanted your options open. But logically, this isn't a failure on the AI's part. A human might consider the same thing. Is he going to attack me or stop? You just didn't want to have the option closed for you but it's not the game's fault for not knowing/caring about that and it should continue not caring.

You're suggestion of its removal is problematic because its being done for all the wrong reasons. This mechanic actually improves AI performance and causing strategic/tactical issues. Removing it is not good for the game.

Also, if this was a dom game though, you would have to stop caring about diplomacy at some point as you'll have to annoy every Civ eventually and get warmonger hate long before you get to domination. So breaking a promise is the least of your concerns.

Yeah, it's nicer if we get the option too. At least that way they get diplo hit, whatever it means.

Also, because you have to declare on THEIR turn, you completely lose initiative.

I've asked for symmetry in diplomacy for a long time. Up to and including taunts the AI does. It's clearly not happening at this point or is something they are saving for a revamp of diplomacy in another expansion. But you work with what you have. And as already noted, in this case, no one is to blame. AI worked as intended.

 

[TheWaffleTaco]

You did break your promise.

I believe it is effective for 50 turns.

<Row Name="BORDER_PROMISE_TURNS_EFFECTIVE">
			<Value>50</Value>

Even if you didn't know it was 50 turns, declaring war after 10 turns was essentially a lie. Most deals last 30 turns in this game.

The irony of course is you were preparting to attack all along but you just wasn't ;ready. I'm glad the game caught you out on it

Your ruining my immersion w/ these numbers! Nooooooo!
But that is cool.

 

[Matthew.]

This mechanic actually improves AI performance

Uhh... false? If I were the AI--even a poorly coded AI--I'd at least take a few turns to move military over to the supposed "threat" before demanding resolution. How is it helping the AI to force war when all you have is a single pikeman against several longswords and trebuchets? It only "helps" the AI by punishing you through other means (poor relations with every other AI, even if the war was somehow justified or helping those AI out)

Also, if this was a dom game though, you would have to stop caring about diplomacy at some point as you'll have to annoy every Civ eventually and get warmonger hate long before you get to domination. So breaking a promise is the least of your concerns.

Sure. But the game is already way too black and white when it comes to war. You feel forced to either throw all diplomatic relations away, or attempt to keep all. There is very little middle-ground, and this annoying mechanic which does nothing to improve the AI other than giving them the first attack, only adds to the problem.

 

[FrostK]

50? In my current game it lasts more then 100. I do not care a lot cause i am playing as a 'very bad guy'.

 

[Bex]

We should be able to demand the same of the AI.

But at this point I just think of it as part of the game, for better or for worse, that I have to be careful how I move troops so as not to trigger the ultimatum when I'm not ready to attack. Once in a while it involves an annoying detour but it's usually not so difficult.

 

[dexters]

Uhh... false? If I were the AI--even a poorly coded AI--I'd at least take a few turns to move military over to the supposed "threat" before demanding resolution. How is it helping the AI to force war when all you have is a single pikeman against several longswords and trebuchets? It only "helps" the AI by punishing you through other means (poor relations with every other AI, even if the war was somehow justified or helping those AI out)

False in what way. OP proves its not true. Your unhappiness proves its not true as its advantage human if you can declare at your convenience while parking your units right up to their borders for the quickest first strike deep into their terrority.

I know this, I used to do it in previous Civ games. It was increadibly hackneyed and awful exploit. You can't do that anyone, at least not until bombers. You just have to play differently.

Sure. But the game is already way too black and white when it comes to war. You feel forced to either throw all diplomatic relations away, or attempt to keep all. There is very little middle-ground, and this annoying mechanic which does nothing to improve the AI other than giving them the first attack, only adds to the problem.

If you have no intentions to DoW they you should have no problem keeping your promise.,

I understand there is a gray area where you want the option open to DoW later and you feel like the AI asking you forced your hand.

That is not a 'fault' or a weakness to the AI. It adds strategic challenge. You have the option to Dow and get it over with or pull back and live with your choice. It's not unrealistic at all.

What you want is to dow on your own timetable on your own terms. You want to put a hood over the AI and lie to them until you DoW and not get penalized. That's very possible in Civ5, but you have to be smart about it and actively avoid triggering the AI asking you about your troops near their borders.

 

[Tibbz]

It's ok but I wish you could confront the AI about units on your border as well.

I hate when the AI will just sit on your border for tons of time shuffling units and you truly are basically locked there to be ready for defense and you have no idea if they will even attack or not.

 

[DyadoMraz]

I wish the AI was smart enough to react and just reinforce the region and THEN make demands (if at all)
And generally just be smarter as opposed to wielding cheating mechanics

 

[Xichael]

Solution:

Add a third option telling the AI to mind their own business, take a diplo hit.

 

[dexters]

Solution:

Add a third option telling the AI to mind their own business, take a diplo hit.

What's the point. People are upset because they do take a diplo hit for essentially lying because they wanted to attack, but NOT YET!

What you want is to take less of a diplo hit for being an ass. How about we double the penalty instead!