Why I won't be buying Civ-BE (even though I have money to blow)

Although I am looking forward to CivBE, I am a little bit worried that it will become old and boring quicker than CiV has. I enjoyed CiV and played it quite a lot (Emperor), but thinking about it now I wouldn't want to play another game: it starts off interesting but then I would just get on the tried and trusted rails and win the game the optimal way, thus making each game a copy of the previous.

And the problem with CivBE is that it looks way too similar to CiV (same 1upt, same combat, same diplomacy, same culture, same trade routes?), which means the novelty will wear off even quicker. I'd love to be wrong, but atm it looks like it will become way too familiar after 5-10 games to anyone who had previously played CiV.
 
I worry about that too, but 5-10 games could be over 100 hours played. That's worth $50 imo.
 
I worry about that too, but 5-10 games could be over 100 hours played. That's worth $50 imo.

That's a fair point and maybe that's enough.
Maybe I'll waste fewer hours of my life playing computer games, so it's a blessing in disguise :)
 
I prefer a game of Europa Universalis IV or Crusader Kings II for that. Or even Medieval. Way better games at simulating the neccessary context for some interesting role playing. Civilization games are rather geared towards system optimization and competetiveness. At least that's how I feel.

Yes, I understand that very well. Paradox games are awesome for that. But Civ is around longer and more enjoyable for some people. The paradox games can be very dry. :D
Also civ offers a much bigger context and simulates a much greater timespan while the paradox games are tied to periods of time and sometimes even not global geographics.
 
You are optimzing, otherwise you wouldn't win on King. That does not mean you have to crunch every number. You are satisfied by what you are doing because you are successfully doing it. And that involves not doing certain things because they are bad. And it also doesn't matter whether you see the winning screen or not. I don't play most games past the point where I know I will definitely win either.

I agree that I optimize to a certain degree -- it's an inherent part of 'playing a game'. As you say, I simply don't optimize to the same degree you do.

In part, I see it as part of the hierarchy of values -- I value optimization to a certain extent, until that optimization costs me other aspects of the game I enjoy. Sure, I could probably play more competitively and at higher difficulty levels if I followed the typical strategy of opening with Tradition, building only four cities, rushing the National College by chopping down forests, etc. But that would cost me in other areas, and so I don't pursue those strategies.

Civilization is all about your understanding of the game mechanics and seeing how your applied knowledge works out in different situations. The only reason you disagree with this is that my description seems so technical and that again seems contrary to fun. But in fact, it isn't. I just happen to gain more satisfaction from being even more efficient.

I would disagree with this assessment, however. I don't feel that Civilization is solely about reducing the game to some kind of abstraction and using it to test me knowledge. My most memorable games of Civ were back when I played hotseat games with my brother, and we made empires that sprawled across the globe. Sure, there is a certain degree of "overcoming adversity" to be involve, but it's not the only aspect of the game I enjoy. Going back to the 'hierarchy of values', there are other things I value over simply applying my knowledge to defeating the game. There are aesthetic elements -- I'll refrain from chopping down forests and filling marshes, even if these would be more optimal, because I like having forests and marshes in my empire. There are roleplaying elements -- I'll try to get every luxury for my populace and ramp up my happiness to high levels, simply because I like the idea that my people are happy and prosperous. Or I'll simply crave the satisfaction of an empire that spans from sea to sea. If the optimal solution runs contrary to fulfilling those goals, then optimization gets kicked to the curb. Sure, I could open Tradition to get a better start, but I'd rather do Liberty to expand my empire and get more luxuries for my people. I could limit myself to only four cities, but then I wouldn't have a wide, sprawling empire.

As you commented to Manannan, these are all subjective opinions. What I prefer or seek in the game is going to be different from what you seek. I think the big issue is that people tend to be reductionist, thinking that everyone is (or at least, should be) the same. You argue that I'm the same as you -- I'm seeking to be competitive, just not as much so. I argue that I'm different -- sure, competitiveness is one of the things I'm seeking, but I'm also seeking other things that you aren't.

In the end, I think it's a question of how much we can tolerate diversity. There are people that look down their noses at casual players and call them pejoratives like "scrubs". You've got people like the OP who complain that the Civ team decided to actually make something other than a historical game for a change, and decided to make a sci-fi game instead. But I'm rather skeptical about people who try to pigeonhole things, who argue that everyone should aspire to the same goals, be the same way, never try new or different things. It seems needlessly conformist.
 
And it woudln't even be that much of an effort to implement it. I don't understand why some people think the single player experience will be devalued by that. Or what other reasons could they have to be against an implementation of multiplayer? I just hope they also improve some usability aspects along the way. Not being able to join in the game of hosts who's content requirements you don't meet would be a major improvement already.

If the game is built around rule sets, similar to a board game, and the AI is just an actor in the game similar to another player, then there's no difference between the SP and MP experience -- for a TBS game.

Unfortunately, it's more about what other companies have done vis a vis SP vs MP that have ruined the concept of a game built for both SP and MP to coexist.
 
@ bouncymischa

My goal is not to force you to play the game the way I play it. If you remember how the conversation started, it's all about expressing the wish that the challange within this franchise isn't trivialized even more. And that would imply a certain focus on other aspects than aesthetics. Casual players are sometimes very offended by this opinion. For me, a game isn't a game if you can not fail. It's some sort of applied arts project. And the same is true if the challange is absurdly low. And yes, this is only my totally subjective opinion.

Of course that doesn't mean it can't be fun, but aren't there better games geared towards living out your creativity? Why resort to a game that has such sophisticated mechanics that it gets complicated to achieve what aesthetic aspects you are currently trying to achieve? Because it is challanging this way. You are entertained, because you have to use your brain and there's the thrill of possible failure and you are happy when you reach the goals you set for yourself anyways. Otherwise you could achieve all the same things you described by creating the neccessary elements with the editor. And thats not forcing conformity.
 
Why do you guys seem to think Sid is making these games? Just because it has his name slapped across the box? It's a selling tool. I bet he popped into the office for an hour once while this whole project was going on...rest assured...this is not the work of Sid, not even close. It's a repackage of the same game being sold again to rake in the cash and maximise profits before moving onto 6.

I do recall reading many citations about Sid's input into the latest XCom-EU game as it was progressing and it was clear his input was active, assertive and influential to the ultimate game...which I enjoyed a great deal.

I would not be so quick to cavalierly dismiss the value of his association with any game project.

For the record, I've been far less disappointed in games associated with Sid, than I have any other single game producer/designer, which is to say I've consistently enjoyed his games and felt that I have more than gotten my money's worth out of them - something I cannot say of other gaming houses/teams.
 
Multiplayer is a hugely important feature for any modern game and it should not be dismissed so easily. I was brought into the series back in Civ 4 only because I was invited to play multiplayer with my friends. Because of that, I got hooked on the series and became a loyal customer. My story is incredibly common for players.

Civ 5 was a huge step backward in multiplayer functionality. Aside from the bugs, there is awful input lag that makes every action you perform a minor annoyance. Also the multitude of DLC created tons of little walled gardens. Players could not play a match if they didn't have all the DLC packs that the host had. I understand doing it for large expansions, but not minor DLCs. They should have just allowed you play against someone with DLC, but you couldn't play as one unless you purchase it. This would also act as a selling tool as players get first hand look at some DLC civilization.

Multiplayer also helps keep your fanbase engaged with the game and series. There is less customer drift for future titles.
 
I decide to purchase this later and look at how the real Civ BE is gonna be. I think CivBE is still a reskin of Civ 5 but NO, the think that I really worry the most is that : I fear that CivBE will be a war game alike while maintain peaceful time.
I can't play Civ 5 in a brutal and aggressive way. I usually stuck one of the following things : Negative money , my units always got beaten by AI units , I can't manage unit creating even I got high science. :(
I manage "when at war" game really bad and of course there is no culture and diplomacy "game" in CivBE so I have to wait for it. But all unique units except Purity are really interesting that want me to buy...but still ashamed for me that I have to try to practice "war" game in Civ 5 first.
 
I've already pre-ordered. I still play Civ V but I am looking forward to playing a new Civ game. I must admit I'll probably still prefer Civ V just as I preferred Civ II to SMAC.

I prefer the brighter colours of II and V and the more intuitive tech tree.

I will say the map in Civ BE seems pretty cluttered and hard to make sense of. Endless Legend has a similarly cluttered map which turned me off of the game.
 
Honestly I expected BE to be a bit more different than Civ5 despite my love for this game.

I am talking mainly about empire building mechanics - again we have bland bonuses like +10% to food etc. very similar to Civ5.

I hope Civ6 will have something more interesting, detailed and 'organic' here :) like rpg-like social perks, drastically different governments and policies and less percentage modifiers.

I am still very interested in BE.
 
It's definetely a spin off of Civ5. But I've never understood the problem with that if you like Civ5 more of the same is worth it to me. What annoys me more is bugs and AI issues that get copied from one game to the next (if that's the case).
 
How exactly can you be a civfanatic and not want this game?
 
How exactly can you be a civfanatic and not want this game?

Don't. Just don't. I'm excited for CivBE and disagree witha lot of the points JokerJace is making, but excluding people from a fandom because they don't like something is dumb.
 
But if you don't like it you're not a fan!
 
But if you don't like it you're not a fan!

Circular arguement.. I don't like Civ V, and yet I still consider myself a fan.
 
I'm detecting some sarcasm . . . :)
 
Given the options inherent in the game's known factions, virtues, affinities, synergies and seeding variables, I suspect I can be happily busy with this game for at least (8 x 5 x 3 x 5 x 5 x 5) starts before repeating the same old game. What's that? About 15,000 starts? OK, maybe over the top, but I do think the game will have some replay value. I am most curious to pursue the virtue/affinity/faction possibilities in particular, with the seeding variables as icing on the cake.
 
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