[RD] War in Gaza: News Thread

[Lexicus]

In this article from the Time, President Trump outs himself as possibly the most anti-Israel President in American history.

Read the Full Transcripts of Donald Trump's Interviews With TIME

”The advantage I have now is I know everybody. I know people. I know the good, the bad, the stupid, the smart.”

time.com

Sir, you've been critical of how Israel has prosecuted its war against Hamas. In a recent interview, you said that it needed to “get it over with” and “get back to normalcy.”

Trump: Yeah.

So as President, would you consider withholding American military assistance to Israel to push it to winding down its war?

Trump: Okay. So let me, I have to start just as I did inside. [Asks an aide to turn down the air conditioner.] I don't have to go through the whole thing. But as you know, Iran was broke. Iran is the purveyor of—

No, I know that but would you—

Trump: No, but think of the great job I did. It would have never happened. It would have never happened. You wouldn't have had—Hamas had no money. Do you know that?

I do understand that, sir, I just want to know—

Trump: No, but I hope it can be pointed out. During my term, there were stories that Iran didn't have the money to give to any—there was very little terrorism. We had none. I had four years of—we had no terrorism. We didn't have a World Trade Center knocked down. You know, Bush used to say, “Well, we’ve been a safe country.” I said they knocked down the World Trade Center in the middle of your term. Do you remember that one during the debate? That was a good one. But it was true, very true. But we had no terror during our—and we got rid of ISIS 100%. Now they're starting to come back.

I want to know—you said you want to get Israel to wind down the war. You said it needs to “get it over with.” How are you going to make that happen? Would you consider withholding aid?

Trump: I think that Israel has done one thing very badly: public relations. I don't think that the Israel Defense Fund or any other group should be sending out pictures every night of buildings falling down and being bombed with possibly people in those buildings every single night, which is what they do.


So you won’t rule out withholding or conditioning aid?

Trump: No, I—we have to be. Look, there's been no president that's done what I've done for Israel. When you look at all of the things that I've done, and it starts with the Iran nuclear deal. You know, Bibi Netanyahu begged Obama not to do that deal. I ended that deal. And if they were smart and energetic, other than trying to get Trump, they would have made a deal because they were in bad shape. They should have made a deal with Iran. They didn't prosecute that. They didn't make that deal. But I did Golan Heights.

You did.

Trump: Nobody even thought of Golan Heights. I gave them Golan Heights. I did the embassy and in Jerusalem. Jerusalem became the capital. I built the embassy. I even built the embassy.

Right.

Trump: And it's a beautiful embassy for a lot less money than anybody ever thought possible. And you've heard that. But there's been no president that's done what I've done in Israel. And it's interesting. The people of Israel appreciate it. I have like a 98%—I have the highest approval numbers.

Do you know who doesn’t have a high approval rating right now in Israel, though?


Trump: Bibi.

Yeah. Do you think it's time for him to go?

Trump: Well, I had a bad experience with Bibi. And it had to do with Soleimani, because as you probably know by now, he dropped out just before the attack. And I said, “What's that all about?” Because that was going to be a joint and all of a sudden, we were told that Israel was not doing it. And I was not happy about that. That was something I never forgot. And it showed me something. I would say that what happened on—the October 7 should have never happened.

It happened on his watch.

Trump: No, it happened on his watch. And I think it's had a profound impact on him, despite everything. Because people said that shouldn't have happened. They have the most sophisticated equipment. They had—everything was there to stop that. And a lot of people knew about it, you know, thousands and thousands of people knew about it, but Israel didn't know about it, and I think he's being blamed for that very strongly, being blamed. And now you have the hostage situation—

Has his time passed?

Trump: And I happen to think that on the hostages, knowing something about the enemy, and knowing something about people, I think you have very few hostages left. You know, they talk about all of these hostages. I don't believe these people are able or even wanting to take care of people as negotiations. I don't—I think the hostages are going to be far fewer than people think, which is a very sad thing.


You think you could work better with Benny Gantz than Netanyahu in a second term?

Trump: I think Benny Gantz is good, but I'm not prepared to say that. I haven't spoken to him about it. But you have some very good people that I've gotten to know in Israel that could do a good job.

Do you think—

Trump: And I will say this, Bibi Netanyahu rightfully has been criticized for what took place on October 7.

Do you think an outcome of that war between Israel and Hamas should be a two state solution between Israelis and Palestinians?

Trump: Most people thought it was going to be a two-state solution. I'm not sure a two-state solution anymore is gonna work. Everybody was talking about two states, even when I was there. I was saying, “What do you like here? Do you like two states?” Now people are going back to—it depends where you are. Every day it changes now. If Israel’s making progress, they don't want two states. They want everything. And if Israel's not making progress, sometimes they talk about two-state solution. Two-state solution seemed to be the idea that people liked most, the policy or the idea that people liked above.

Honestly, kind of at a loss as to what to take away from this, except that Trump is a narcissist (as we already knew).

 

[innonimatu]

Speaking of journalists getting out of line, the Wall Street Journal allowed another break with the false narrative of October 7 and the evil Hamas murdering civilians and hostages. The israeli occupation force has been doing a big share of the killing of israelis as well as palestinians. This was known and is now being allowed on "respectable" media. Someone is trying to put pressure on the Israely government and military. Splits in the ruling elites...

I'm afraid that the decision on stopping Israel rom continuing the genocide plan or letting it continue stills rests with genocide Joe and his clique, and they're all after the zionist money and wedded to maintaining the destabilizing military outpost in the Middle East because it worked so well ever since Suez. Most old people are not flexible, do not adapt to new circunstances. I'm afraid Jonathan Cook is correct in his guess of the plan of action they intend. They will try it. It does not mean it will succeeed. I don't thionk it can succeed. But they will manage to kill hundreds of thousands more before the whole thing collapses.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. The_J

 

[Lexicus]

I'm afraid that the decision on stopping Israel rom continuing the genocide plan or letting it continue stills rests with genocide Joe and his clique, and they're all after the zionist money and wedded to maintaining the destabilizing military outpost in the Middle East because it worked so well ever since Suez. Most old people are not flexible, do not adapt to new circunstances. I'm afraid Jonathan Cook is correct in his guess of the plan of action they intend. They will try it. It does not mean it will succeeed. I don't thionk it can succeed. But they will manage to kill hundreds of thousands more before the whole thing collapses.

In broad outline I think this is what's going to happen and as far as I can see it has every chance of succeeding. Why don't you think it can succeed?

 

[Crezth]

Because they can’t pay their fudging electric bill, Lex.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Israel Has Formed a Task Force to Repress Palestine Solidarity On and Off US Campuses

A major Israeli news site says Israel’s foreign affairs and diaspora affairs ministries are behind the operation.

truthout.org

In a story that has been largely ignored in the Western press, the Israeli news website Ynetnews, one of the largest media outlets in the country, reported that the Israeli government has launched what appears to be a wide-ranging covert campaign to harass and intimidate students, faculty, and administrators into silence.

According to the report, the Foreign Affairs and the Diaspora Affairs ministries have established a task force to carry out “shaming and pressuring” operations at U.S. universities. The task force, chaired by Foreign Minister Eli Cohen and led by senior government officials, drew up a multifaceted “action plan,” according to Ynetnews, involving political and psychological operations against its critics. The plan aims at “inflicting economic and employment consequences on antisemitic [read: pro-Palestinian/anti-genocide] students and compelling universities to distance them from their campuses.” The plan specifies that actions taken “should not have the signature of the State of Israel on it.”

 

[EnglishEdward]

In broad outline I think this is what's going to happen and as far as I can see it has every chance of succeeding. Why don't you think it can succeed?

Because the Iranians will provide Hamas or Hezbollah or similar with nukes.

 

[Lexicus]

Because they can’t pay their fudging electric bill, Lex.

Elaborate

 

[Broken_Erika]

Israel accused of possible war crime over killing of West Bank boy​

In the early afternoon of 29 November last year, several Palestinian boys descended on to their street in the occupied West Bank, where they often played together.

Minutes later, two of them lay dead from gunshots fired by Israeli soldiers - Basil, 15, and eight-year-old Adam.

As part of an investigation into the conduct of Israel's security forces in the West Bank, which has been under military occupation for more than half a century, the BBC has pieced together what happened on the day the two boys were killed.

Mobile phone and CCTV footage, information about the movements of Israel's military, witness testimony and detailed investigation of the scene, including taking measurements, combine to reveal evidence suggesting serious human rights violations.

The evidence we found has prompted Ben Saul, UN special rapporteur on human rights and counter-terrorism, to say the death of Adam appears to be a "war crime".

Another legal expert, Dr Lawrence Hill-Cawthorne, described the use of lethal force as “indiscriminate”.

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said the circumstances of the deaths were “under review” but said “live fire is used only in order to remove immediate threats or for arrest purposes, following arrest protocols after exhausting other options”.

With violence having surged in the West Bank in the months since Hamas's attack on Israel from Gaza on 7 October, the BBC has also found evidence of Palestinian homes being vandalised with graffiti, Palestinian civilians threatened with weapons and told to leave the territory for neighbouring Jordan, and the possible mutilation of the body of a Palestinian gunman.

Video footage from 29 November shows Basil standing next to a hardware store, its shutters firmly locked down. When Israel's military arrives, shops close quickly in Jenin, a city in the West Bank - Palestinian territory which, unlike Gaza, is not run by Hamas.

Witnesses said gunfire had been ringing out from a nearby operation by Israel's army in the Jenin refugee camp.

Adam, a football fanatic and massive Lionel Messi fan, stood with his older brother Baha, 14. There were about nine boys on the street in total, all captured on CCTV cameras that provided a nearly 360-degree view of what happened next.

A few hundred metres away, a convoy of at least six armoured Israeli military vehicles turned a corner and began heading towards the boys, who clearly became uneasy. Several of the boys started to move away.

At this precise moment, mobile phone footage shows the front door of an armoured vehicle opened. The soldier inside had a direct view of the boys. Basil had darted into the middle of the road, while Adam was 12m further from the soldiers, running away.

Then at least 11 gunshots rang out.

Examining the scene, the BBC found the bullets struck a wide area. Four bullets hit a metal pole, two the shutter of the hardware store, one burrowed its way through the bumper of a parked car, and another pierced a handrail.

Medical reports obtained by the BBC show that two shots hit Basil in the chest.

Another bullet struck eight-year-old Adam in the back of the head as he ran away; his older brother Baha desperately tried to drag him to cover, leaving a trail of blood as he screamed for an ambulance.

But it was too late. Baha said Adam and his friend Basil died in front of him.

“I was in a state of shock; I wasn’t even thinking about myself. I tried to speak to him. I started saying, ‘Adam, Adam!’ But his soul was basically leaving his body because he didn't answer,” Baha told the BBC tearfully.

Before being shot, Basil can be seen clutching something in his hand. It is not clear what it is. The IDF later shared a picture taken at the scene, which it says shows an explosive device.

Evidence from our investigation of the scene was shared with a number of independent experts, including human rights lawyers, a war crimes investigator and a counter-terrorism expert, as well as members of the UN and other, neutral bodies. Some gave their analysis anonymously.

The experts agreed the incident should be investigated and some went further, saying there appeared to be violations of international law.

Ben Saul, the UN special rapporteur on human rights and counter-terrorism, said there may be questions about whether lethal force could have been used legally in Basil's case, if he was holding an explosive.

"For Adam, this appears to be a violation of the International Humanitarian Law prohibitions on deliberately, indiscriminately or disproportionately attacking civilians, a war crime, and a violation of the human right to life," Mr Saul said.

Dr Lawrence Hill-Cawthorne, co-director of the Centre for International Law at the University of Bristol, said: "The soldiers were in armoured vehicles. Even if there was a threat, they should have driven away and planned an arrest, rather than defaulting to apparently indiscriminate, lethal force, which is a violation of international law.”

The IDF said the suspects had been about to hurl explosives towards their forces, putting them in immediate danger. "The troops responded with fire and hits were identified," Israel's military said.

But according to the video evidence we have examined and witness testimony, Adam did not appear to have been armed and had been running away when he was shot in the back of the head.

The IDF said the circumstances of Basil and Adam's deaths are "under review", which it does routinely for every death of a child in the West Bank due to IDF activity.

But several former Israeli soldiers who viewed the BBC's evidence said they believed Israel’s legal system would protect soldiers who used lethal force, regardless of whether it was justified.

One former sergeant who served in the West Bank from 2018-2020, said it would take "an Israeli soldier murdering a Palestinian at zero range for it to be taken as murder in Israel" and "there is basically a 0% chance of criminal proceedings" against a soldier in cases such as Adam's.

Data from the Israeli human rights group Yesh Din suggests that fewer than 1% of all complaints against Israeli soldiers result in prosecutions.

Footage of the Hamas attack on 7 October, in which about 1,200 people were killed and 253 taken hostage, outraged the Israeli public and shocked the world. Since then, the world's attention has been focused on the war and humanitarian crisis in Gaza, where more than 34,000 people have been killed, according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry.

At the same time, military operations by Israel have also surged in the occupied West Bank, making last year the deadliest year on record for children there.

A total of 124 children were killed in 2023, according to Unicef - 85 of whom were reported killed after 7 October.

So far in 2024, 36 Palestinian children have been killed in the territory by Israeli settlers or the military.

Since the West Bank is not classed as a war zone, the use of force is meant to be more constrained, according to international law.

While the IDF keeps its exact rules of engagement secret, former and serving Israeli soldiers told us the use of lethal force was meant to be a last resort where there is a real and imminent danger to life. A staged approach should be taken.

They say this begins with a verbal warning in Arabic and Hebrew, before escalating to the use of non-lethal weapons such as tear gas, then shooting at the legs, all before shooting to kill.

The BBC was given access by the Palestinian Authority-run health ministry in the West Bank to medical reports of 112 children, aged between two and 17, who were killed by Israeli fire between January 2023 and January 2024. We cannot know the exact circumstances of all of these shootings, and it is possible that some genuinely posed a threat to the lives of Israeli soldiers.

But our analysis showed that about 98% of them had injuries to the upper body, where a shot is more likely to be fatal, meaning that soldiers could be shooting to kill more often than wound in these cases.

It raises questions about whether soldiers are following the rules of engagement in the West Bank and the culture around how they use lethal force.

Over a period of five weeks in the West Bank examining the impact of military operations, we saw evidence of several incidents which raised serious questions about the army's conduct.

The BBC witnessed a 45-hour military operation by Israel in Tulkarm refugee camp in January 2024, targeting an armed group known locally as the Resistance.

Afterwards, several Palestinians told us they had been threatened by soldiers at gunpoint and told to move to neighbouring Jordan. The IDF has said it will review any complaints about civilians being threatened.

Haytham, a 12-year-old Canadian-Palestinian boy, said he had been threatened at knife-point by an Israeli soldier, a claim backed up by his brother and father.

In one family home in the camp, we found a mural of al-Aqsa mosque, the third holiest site in Islam, that had been defaced - allegedly by Israeli soldiers.

An adjoining wall bore the Star of David, spray-painted, and another had "7 October" in Hebrew written on it, a reference to the Hamas attack.

The IDF has said that this vandalism "contradicts IDF values" and is contrary to what it expects from its soldiers.

Upstairs the house had been ransacked, with kitchen cabinets smashed, children's toys damaged, and televisions broken. It was a similar picture in house after house, throughout the camp.

Dr Eitan Diamond, a senior legal expert at the Diakonia International Humanitarian Law Centre in Jerusalem, said that “vandalism, such as spraying the Star of David or ‘October 7' on walls, is clearly unlawful".

The reports about a child being threatened with a knife in Tulkarm camp - and others being threatened at gunpoint - could also be breaches of international law, he said.

In the same IDF operation, after soldiers shot dead an alleged Palestinian fighter who may have been carrying explosives, witnesses told us that his body had been urinated on, struck, bound and then dragged down the street.

The BBC was shown photos of a bound body. Examining the bloodstained scene, we found cloth and cable left behind, which was consistent with the material used to bind the body in the pictures.

Our evidence was again shown to independent experts. Prof Marco Sassoli, an international law expert from the University of Geneva, said: “Remains of the deceased, even if they were lawfully killed, must be respected. What you report violates international humanitarian law and may even constitute a war crime.”

The IDF said that after examining the dead fighter, explosives had been found and Red Crescent personnel refused to touch the body. "For this reason, IDF troops had to restrain his hands and feet to ensure their safety and to check if there was weaponry under the body."

Some of the former Israeli soldiers who reviewed the BBC's evidence said they were afraid that the culture of IDF operations in the West Bank was further stoking Palestinian armed resistance.

"To assume that people can interact with the army the way Palestinians do on a daily basis and still go about their lives as if nothing happened - that people living in this reality will not take up arms - is at best naive and dehumanising," one said.

"Things are getting worse."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw07wgrwzywo

 

[EgonSpengler]

About 30 seconds ago:

Reporter: "Mister President, will these protests have any effect on US policy in the region?"
President Biden: "No."

Okay... so... students at these schools need to continue pressuring those schools to divest their investments, then. As soon as the police leave and people who were arrested get out of jail, bring back the protests, I guess.

 

[Estebonrober]

About 30 seconds ago:

Reporter: "Mister President, will these protests have any effect on US policy in the region?"
President Biden: "No."

Okay... so... students at these schools need to continue pressuring those schools to divest their investments, then. As soon as the police leave and people who were arrested get out of jail, bring back the protests, I guess.

Columbian kids are already doing this, it will escalate all summer...

2024 Democratic National Convention - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dem Convention in Chicago this year... so the 68' comparisons are going to continue, and Biden can count on the fact that this is going to be a real issue there... He can only avoid the protests for so long...

 

[Estebonrober]

Trump is going to win the election (I'm officially making my call on it today), but he is going to be governing over the most fractious, irate, and dispossessed US population since 68' at least, honestly, I'd say since the turn of the 20th, and we have no free real estate or substitutes available to give away... 24-8 are going to be rocky... and if that overdue recession comes... the toxicity of online discussions are going to be the least of our concerns.

 

[Estebonrober]

Who is doing this right now? Except for Charlottesville a few years back I'm not even seeing this at most neo-Nazi rallies, and we have those almost weekly here in the US.
UCLA.

@Bestbank Tiger
Zionist agitators attacked the protesters and the police stood by and watched... Your example literally supports my overall point. I concede the point in fact that they got violent, but they did so not to try to express their own opinions on something but to make it "toxic" for others to express their heartfelt opinions.

 

[Crezth]

Trump is going to win the election (I'm officially making my call on it today), but he is going to be governing over the most fractious, irate, and dispossessed US population since 68' at least, honestly, I'd say since the turn of the 20th, and we have no free real estate or substitutes available to give away... 24-8 are going to be rocky... and if that overdue recession comes... the toxicity of online discussions are going to be the least of our concerns.

It’s really going to be about making sure you have a good view and a nice table, here at the restaurant at the end of the universe.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Honestly, kind of at a loss as to what to take away from this, except that Trump is a narcissist (as we already knew).

Yeah I certainly didn't see anywhere where Trump took any significant anti-Israel stance... if anything it was just a lot of touting a continuation of the standard pro-Israel stance that he has taken all along.

 

[Sommerswerd]

About 30 seconds ago:

Reporter: "Mister President, will these protests have any effect on US policy in the region?"
President Biden: "No."

Okay... so... students at these schools need to continue pressuring those schools to divest their investments, then. As soon as the police leave and people who were arrested get out of jail, bring back the protests, I guess.

The school year is over in a month... they are trying to wait it out. Once the school year ends and the dorms and dining halls close, the students will go home and the protests will lose steam... at least that seems to be the hope.

 

[Lexicus]

The school year is over in a month...

A week or two at most colleges.

 

[innonimatu]

The school year is over in a month... they are trying to wait it out. Once the school year ends and the dorms and dining halls close, the students will go home and the protests will lose steam... at least that seems to be the hope.

They're not waiting. It's pretty clear that what's going on is a replay of the repression of the Occupy movement. Coordinated repression nation-wide.
Where local feelings nay be more put out by just sending in the police and there is a risk of wider popular revolt, create incidents then send in the police to arrest the victims.

 

[Estebonrober]

It’s really going to be about making sure you have a good view and a nice table, here at the restaurant at the end of the universe.

A lovely eatery with a wonderful view.

 

[Estebonrober]

The school year is over in a month... they are trying to wait it out. Once the school year ends and the dorms and dining halls close, the students will go home and the protests will lose steam... at least that seems to be the hope.

Then we move into the cities! Let's go!!!!

It all will wrap around ole Chi-town and that should be a fun ride.

 

[Estebonrober]

Yeah I certainly didn't see anywhere where Trump took any significant anti-Israel stance... if anything it was just a lot of touting a continuation of the standard pro-Israel stance that he has taken all along.

He does not like that Benny-boy left him hanging on the Soleimani assassination. So, like everything with Trump it is personal.