Rise of Asia

[Mirc]

Yes, you are right, I heard about the Huns.

I had no idea what Yamato, Han, Pagan, DaiViet, Siam and Bengalidesh mean.

Sorry for replying a post 3 pages ago.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

ok so the eras are:
Stone Age (before 300bc)
Classical/Ancient Age (300bc-800ad JP)
Feudal/Medievil Age (800-1850JP)
Imperial Age (1850-1918)

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

I think the first age should be the Bronze Age. By that time (300 BCE), civilizations were already using bronze and iron. And it's better just to use "Classical" Age. "Ancient" is kind of arbitrary.

What does JP stand for?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

ok so the eras are:
Stone Age (before 300bc)
Classical/Ancient Age (300bc-800ad JP)
Feudal/Medievil Age (800-1850JP)
Imperial Age (1850-1918)

Yeah, thats what I had in mind. For the epic game it covers the dawn of Asian civilizations(rise of asia), to the age of imperialism, which would end I guess around the Boxer Rebellion. Snapshot would diffinitely start in the Bronze Age, as Ogedai suggested.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

Japanese era. I dont know what was happening in India in 800-1850ad.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Shiro, here's a name of a Sailendra king of Java: Samarottunga (reigned 792-824 CE). It is believed that he was the main builder of Borobudur.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Well, I think that was the period of the Mauryan Empire, followed by when the British conquered most of the Indian subcontinent(I believe during the 18th century). For alot of that time the subcontinent was run by the British governor.

Maybe that could be represented by a tech called "Foreign Rule", which perhaps enables the Building of the British East India Company small wonder.

 

[7ronin]

The game would certainly move a little faster is you start in the "Classical" age as opposed to the "Stone" age.

The problem with carrying the game into the industrial age is that we have a regional game at a time when it's hard to ignore the rest of the world. There is a way to include Europeans and have them show up in the last era but it it would not be easy to pull off.

You also have the problem of more units, more techs, more leaderheads, etc., etc., etc.

@TLC - what would you say to Europeans a la Plotinus's Vikings?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Well, I think that was the period of the Mauryan Empire, followed by when the British conquered most of the Indian subcontinent(I believe during the 18th century). For alot of that time the subcontinent was run by the British governor.

Maybe that could be represented by a tech called "Foreign Rule", which perhaps enables the Building of the British East India Company small wonder.

It depends on what the premise of the mod is. If the aim is to build a strong, unified, and advanced civilization, then it would not make sense that a foreign power would suddenly take over. When th Europeans came, the empires of Asia were already in decline. At the start (when Asian civilizations were still marginally powerful), they had to play by the rules of Asian rulers, not the other way around. There's a funny anecdote about some early trade difficulties between the Chinese and the Brittish when the Chinese decided to halt all exports of rhubarb (a laxative) to Britian because of percieved insolence (the Chinese minister told the Brittish that if they were to continue being insolent, the would have to "suffer the pain of constipation"; this is an actual quote ).

Plus, there's also the problem of the inability to script events and if the mod focus is regional, as 7ronin said, it won't be easy to depict the European arrival.

SoG, you're way off there; It was the Mughal Empire. The Mauryan Empire was much much earlier. There is a whole mod devoted to this place and period.

 

[The Last Conformist]

@TLC - what would you say to Europeans a la Plotinus's Vikings?

I was actually considering suggesting that myself!

It certainly rhymes well with the concept of building a mighty Asiatic empire to withstand the onslaught of the western barbarians.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

you guys are getting the scenerio confused with the epic mod...

The scenerio is a snapshot of history, with already established empires. The epic mod isn't..

 

[Blue Monkey]

Wikipedia lays out the period in question for South Asia like this:
Kuru Dynasty 1200-316 BCE
Maha Janapadas 700-321 BCE
Magadhan Empire 684-321 BCE
Mauryan Empire 321-184 BCE
Gupta Empire 240-550 CE
Chola Empire 848-1279 CE
Islamic Sultanates 979-1596
Hoysala Empire 1040-1346
Delhi Sultanate 1210-1526
Vijayanagara Empire 1336-1565
Mughal Era 1526-1707
followed by British Raj
from about Asoka's reign up to the Cholas is called the "Classical" period in most histories.

As to my promised look at the South Asian Civs:
Maurya/Asoka , of course
Chera/ Maavali, that's a Tamil spelling for his name, a lot of sources will list him as Mahabali
Gangahrd/Shashanka, he's very late (12th CE), I'll keep looking for someone earlier.
Sakya/Arimalla, Vajji is the name of the confederation including the Sakyas. It's noteable for being a democracy (nobles elected the ruler, not a herditary king), the title is Ganapramukh, Chhetak was a very notable ruler, slightly earlier than Shirou's target, noteable for fostering Buddhist foundations.
Taprobane/Vijaya, to quote a PM i sent Shirou a while back "for Sri Lanka I would pick Kuveni. An indigenous queen, it was only by her cooperation and marriage that Prince Vijaya was able to take over and Indianize the island. After he took an Indian second wife she and many of her people rebelled and fought a guerilla war from the jungle. Because she is so early in history, no good images of her exist, but a Tamil looking female would be appropriate."
Kushan/Heraios, either Kujala Kadphises or Kanishka are more prominent rulers. Possible UU: Ashvaka (swift-moving lancers).

Potential Wonders connected to South Asia:
Mahabalipuram: a complex of temples carved from monolithic stone. Sometimes building attributed to demon king Mahabali (see Chera above, Tamils/Dravidians are frequently demonized in Indian myth).
Invention of Zero
Mahabharata Epic: more prominent than Ramayana, contains Bagavad-Gita, contender for longest book ever written.
Shadow Puppet Theater
Nalanda University: early center for the study of medicine.
Great Bath of Mohenjo-Daro: public ritual bathing characteristic of South Asia.
Colossi of Bamiyan, a World Heritage Site destroyed by the Taliban.
Hill Fortress of Sigirya, another World Heritage Site, In Sri Lanka, noteable for the Lion Gate, entered by ascending a staircase between the paws of a colossal lion. Originally the whole lion was there, built of wood, brick, and plaster.

 

[Stormrage]

Yeah, screw europeans, this mod is going to be like that book "The years of rice and salt", I dunno if thats the name of the original, this is a translation of a translation , its a book about what the world would be like if all the europeans got whipped out by the plague, so all major scientific breakthroughs, gunpowder (yes, yes, I know, China, I mean rifles and such), steamengines etc., are invented by asian people. Its a cool book. and this is a cool mod

 

[Blue Monkey]

this mod is going to be like that book "The years of rice and salt",

That's the name. It's by Kim Stanley Robinson; IMHO an excellent alternative history with a lot of insight into how science would have developed in an Asian-centric world. I would favour stopping the epic at the equivalent of the early victorians. Let railroads, steamships, and early flight be the technical pinnacle.

 

[Dark Sheer]

Steamengine I am not too sure, but first cannon was used by the Jing and later the Mongols in the 13th century it was called the zhentianlei (震天&#38647 or thunder that rock the sky.

Also, sketchy records in China (lots of chinese historical text are mixed up with mythology ) and India (specifically the epic Ramayana) mentioned about automatons that is so life like that people thought that they are real human being.

 

[Stormrage]

spooky stuff!

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Steamengine I am not too sure, but first cannon was used by the Jing and later the Mongols in the 13th century it was called the zhentianlei (震天&#38647 or thunder that rock the sky.

Also, sketchy records in China (lots of chinese historical text are mixed up with mythology ) and India (specifically the epic Ramayana) mentioned about automatons that is so life like that people thought that they are real human being.

The earliest extant written formula for gunpowder is in a Song Dynasty science manual. I forgot what the name of the writer was, though I had it written somewhere... By the time of the attempted Mongol invasions of Japan, Japanese sources described the Mongols and their Korean conscripts using grenades (those "thunder bombers" that were in Shogun: Total War ). Archeological findings off the coast of Japan confirmed this. Of course, early gunpowder weapons were crappy (useless in rainy weather, and for grenades, you're just as likely to blow yourself up than the enemy), but they had quite an effect on enemy morale.

The Mahabharata also describes what is reminiscent of a nuclear explosion. VERY wierd.

 

[7ronin]

@SOG - we're just brainstorming.
@Blue - great research!
@TLC - we need to talk someone into doing the Opium Wars or similar a la P or Ram.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

The earliest extant written formula for gunpowder is in a Song Dynasty science manual. I forgot what the name of the writer was, though I had it written somewhere... By the time of the attempted Mongol invasions of Japan, Japanese sources described the Mongols and their Korean conscripts using grenades (those "thunder bombers" that were in Shogun: Total War ). Archeological findings off the coast of Japan confirmed this. Of course, early gunpowder weapons were crappy (useless in rainy weather, and for grenades, you're just as likely to blow yourself up than the enemy), but they had quite an effect on enemy morale.

The Mahabharata also describes what is reminiscent of a nuclear explosion. VERY wierd.

They have found tiny gold toy planes which have a remarkable similiarity to ww2 era fighter planes in both Egypt and Mesoamerica..

almost makes you wonder....

 

[Blue Monkey]

Don't get me started on vimana aircraft (crystal-powered stealth fighters) or astras (WMDs with mystic powers). The mod I hope to do eventually will venture into the mythic; Rise is a little more quotidian I think.