Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!

So? Which alternate histories appeal to you?

  • Rome Never Falls

    Votes: 58 35.8%
  • Axis Wins WWII

    Votes: 55 34.0%
  • D-Day Fails

    Votes: 41 25.3%
  • No Fort Sumter, No Civil War

    Votes: 32 19.8%
  • No Waterloo

    Votes: 33 20.4%
  • Islamic Europe

    Votes: 43 26.5%
  • No Roman Empire

    Votes: 37 22.8%
  • Carthage wins Punic Wars

    Votes: 51 31.5%
  • Alexander the Great survives his bout with malaria

    Votes: 54 33.3%
  • Mesoamerican Empires survived/Americas not discovered

    Votes: 48 29.6%
  • Americans lose revolutionary war/revolutionary war averted

    Votes: 44 27.2%
  • Years of Rice and Salt (Do it again!)

    Votes: 24 14.8%
  • Recolonization of Africa

    Votes: 20 12.3%
  • Advanced Native Americans

    Votes: 59 36.4%
  • Successful Zimmerman note

    Votes: 35 21.6%
  • Germany wins WWI

    Votes: 63 38.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 31 19.1%

  • Total voters
    162
wait.. how would the Communists reach Hainan island? and even if the Huang He flood is averted, it doesn't change the fact that the Nationalist Regime was corrupt, inefficient, and brutal towards the people. It's armies were as good as bandits passing villages and etc. It would be impossible to have changed all that by a simple flood being avoided...
 
they did get better. but, look, compared to the population of China at the time, 4 million was a little. even if the flood didn't happen, the Communists would still have won, they had support from the population even BEFORE the flood. so whether the flood happened or not wouldn't mean a thing, sure, it probably allowed the Communists to win faster and easier, but without it, the Communists will still win. It was not that Nationalist General's fault that his government was corrupt, inefficient and the army were criminals and etc. blaming the fall of the nationalist on that general for blowing up the leeves is completely irrational.
 
Thusly, communist forces gain much less sympathy among the Chinese people.

Um... More people survive=less food=MORE communist moods.
Nationalist forces retain control of China, whilst communists are stranded on Hainan.

HOW will they wind up THERE? Also, the communists only took over China AFTER the war: at that point they were still retreating. Northwards. If you want a surviving nationalist China, then its probably more of a China Proper (most of it?)

The Chinese fight against the invading Japanese forces much more successfully, but still ultimately meet defeat. America and Britain give tons of aid to the fledgling democracy that is China after the war, and the rebuilding process begins.

I doubt it will be a "fleding democracy". More of a military dictatorship, much like with a victorious White Russia. Also, China would probably fare WORSE against the Japanese, as instead of an unified and determined communist movement we have plenty of warlords in the north and a disliked Chiang Kai-Shek in the south who probably will sit back and procrastrinate, knowing that he can't do anything serious against Japan anyhow.

The Korean War happens, but where Chinese forces were the deciding factor in turning back the American offensive in our timeline, they aid the American advance near the end of the war. Korea is unified under a democratic banner.

I don't think they will dare as much. No Communist China=Soviet Manchuria=No American offensive into North Korea.

Anyhow, the communists were much better in that they had a very clear and eventually accomplishable program - much better then Chiang-Kai's abstract "democracy" that he wasn't even going to try to carry out.
Vietnam and the rest of South East Asia also go much differently. Communist rebellions are put down by the French with help from willing Chinese and American allies. Vietnam attains independence under a democratic government July 3rd, 1960. Laos and Cambodia follow shortly thereafter.

Again, how the hell will they get democracy there?! Anyhow, the Chinese wouldn't care because a communist Vietnam is useful as a bargaining card with the USA. And by then, there was a major and popular communist guerrila movement against Japan. I suspect that if USA, even with French (?! They already gave up on Indochina by then) and Chinese help, will bog down in a major guerrila war, perhaps even worse then in OTL.

The PoD you would probably want is the Great March (?) not succeeding. Soviet alliance with Nationalist China continues. Maybe (unlikely) the Soviets will follow up Nomonhan, crashing into Manchuria and Korea before the Japanese can react properly. If so, its a completely different story. If not, after USSR enters the war in the far east, it seizes Manchuria and Sinkiang (and possibly Korea as well - note that both Korea and Manchuria, knowing Stalin, will be independant but Port Arthur will probably not be given back to Manchuria), establishes Chiang-Kai's "progressive" control over the rest of China. After Stalin's death, Khruschev as historically screws up everything, ruins relations with China. Cold War expands there. Probably with no Mao to increase disunity, the war will go on until now. Otherwise, today we will have two "North Korea"s in Korea and Manchuria, and a Kalmykistan in Sinkiang. Nationalists in China Proper will by then eventually have democratic reforms after Chiang dies, South-East is as in OTL though Vietnam possibly stronger due to a China that is too busy to attack it.
 
If anyone is still wondering what the "PoD" for my map was, it's that the silkworm is extinct. No silk.
 
If anyone is still wondering what the "PoD" for my map was, it's that the silkworm is extinct. No silk.

Eh?

Hmm... Haven't thought of that. Yes, it explains a lot. But the Silk Route was not just about silk (largely about it, yes, but no fully), you know. And why exactly does China thus collapse?

Is the world ready for the next Das guess-the-pod?
 
das said:
Eh?

Hmm... Haven't thought of that. Yes, it explains a lot. But the Silk Route was not just about silk (largely about it, yes, but no fully), you know. And why exactly does China thus collapse?

Less trade but that really can't be the only reason why China collapsed in that alternate line.

is the world ready for the next Das guess-the-pod?

I atlest am. :D
 
das said:
Eh?

Hmm... Haven't thought of that. Yes, it explains a lot. But the Silk Route was not just about silk (largely about it, yes, but no fully), you know. And why exactly does China thus collapse?

Is the world ready for the next Das guess-the-pod?

No, it wasn't entirely about silk. However, it was, as you said, largely about silk. Silk was the base of the entire Han economy; it's why Han was able to conquer all of China. Without silk, the collapse of Qin led to a number of warring states never able to unify because no one state could finance a war against all of the others. Without silk trade from the east, Parthia was not strong enough to resist the Roman Empire and was eventually conquered. Rome expanded to the Indus River, then began to collapse in a series of civil wars as was inevitable that led to numerous independent, Roman-influenced nations.
 
Parthia wasnt dependent on the silk trade; many valubel items passed from India to Roman, and from Rome to the east (to those who woudl guffaw at that sentiment, it was the Empire that was the only producer of that commodity we take for granted so often, glass, and it was a highlly valued prize).

to illustrate the point, after europe became its own producer of silk, when the Byzantines brought the silk worm back from china, and silk began being produced in areas such as even souther germany, the trade routes hardley vanished
 
Well, India-Rome was important, but I am led to understand there was a maritime trade route as well. Not as convenient, though, but due to a SLIGHTLY poorer/weaker Parthia, it would make sense for Rome to conquer Mesopatamia and establish better trade with India.
 
I've read it. Quite great. Shame I don't have HOI2 yet...

Another Guess-the-PoD. There are a lot of wars, confusing wars. Mexican Civil War between communists and nationalists, with USA and Britain intervenning to "protect their interests" (read: grab some land). Peru is exporting the communist revolution to its neighbhors. Russian Empire (government is ala Hungary, i.e. no tsar and the nation is ran by an admiral-regent) is getting back at the United Socialist Europe (USE) while USE is attacking Turkey. There are also Arabic nationalists and the Saudis attacking the Ottomans.
 

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Ah! Lenin exports his communist ideals throughout Europe rather than in just Russia! Starting a massive Communist uprising...
 
Erm...a random farmer dies in 650 bce prematurly and alters all of history.
 
Amenhotep7 said:
Ah! Lenin exports his communist ideals throughout Europe rather than in just Russia! Starting a massive Communist uprising...

He said Russian Empire, so the czar is still in control.
 
That's what I said. Lenin doesn't go back to Russia. He feels Europe is fine enough for him.
 
Warman17 said:
He said Russian Empire, so the czar is still in control.

Read again. No tsar is in control, ruled by admiral regent from Hungary.
 
I must ask a question: WHy is the US of A a little more imperialistic ITTL? Grabbing land?
 
blackheart said:
Read again. No tsar is in control, ruled by admiral regent from Hungary.

feh meh bleh
 
Dudes, there's something to seriously freak out about... The post limit, IIRC, is 1000! :eek: Somebody's gonna have to open a new one.
 
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