Having land units insta-turn into ships is still a terrible idea in Civ5.

Socratatus

Socratatus

Emperor
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Even with this Patch the AI can`t handle this insta-ship thing. It will always make the wrong move into water at the worst possible time in war.

All I need to do is park a city near a lake or a twisty bit of land and watch as the tough AI units gang up on it, but then instead of taking the land route around, it`ll take the short route over the water, turning itself into a weak transport ship that my city defences or archers can easily bust up. Any Human would stay on land, as the AI used to in previous games.

If it wasn`t for the instant ship thing, the AI troops would take the land route where they would be a lot stronger against my defences. Instant units to ships was a crap idea, especially for the AI. Face palm moment crap.

In fact, I find myself setting cities up near lakes knowing it`s an effective defensive strategy.
 
I've never liked this whole insta-ship from land thing in Civ 5. I always enjoyed building transports in older Civ games. It just adds more immersion to it than the current system. Good idea for a thread.
 
it's super convenient for the human player though, i used to hate having to build transport ships to move units, in fact it meant i would rarely bother playing maps that involved any overland warfare, the hassle of getting enough transports together and then fitting enough units on each one, such a hassle. it is too bad the ai is programmed so stupidly when it comes to using water tiles though, you can really wipe them out hard with their tendency to jump into water.
 
woodshadows said:
it's super convenient for the human player though, i used to hate having to build transport ships to move units, in fact it meant i would rarely bother playing maps that involved any overland warfare, the hassle of getting enough transports together and then fitting enough units on each one, such a hassle. it is too bad the ai is programmed so stupidly when it comes to using water tiles though, you can really wipe them out hard with their tendency to jump into water.
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Yeah, I'm with you and I'm also with OP. It's just way too convenient to be able to travel freely through water. At the same time, I had a game recently where I successfully defended against the bordering Aztecs with practically no army just because they kept lining themselves up for suicide by walking right in the lake by my city. I should have been wiped out
 
I agree but for a different reason.

I won my first game at Prince (finally) and Isabella was my last hurdle. A big reason was while building settlers to establish a base on the new continent. I embarked about 10 units and a great artist to get over to the other continent, I placed 2 destroyers to monitor the lane and make sure no one saw me. When my settlers were done I moved them over and set up a new city, great artist was there, culture bombed Machu Picchu away from Isabella, and rebased 4 B-17's before anyone knew what was going on. Since the tiles were hill, mountain, and forest and Isabella was busy with Bismarck, she had no idea I had set up, her cities couldn't see me. This was all done in less than 6 turns. I declared war, rolled in a few Mech Infantries, some Modern Armor, some Rocket Artillery and 2 Paratroopers. Since I stole her gold with the culture bomb there was no way she could get units over before I took 2 cities (the bulk of her aluminum) and assaulting the third.

If I'd had to build transport ships, or be limited on how many folks at a time I could get over to the new continent it would have been much more of a challenge.
 
Culture bomb? With a great artist? Are you playing Civ IV?

What they need to do is add code that weighs the general danger of putting troops in the water vs. the time it will take to travel. I hate when I move my own troops and the AI will select a water path that puts my people in danger. It's the same issue with not having troops tip toe around CS borders when you don't want to make a CS mad.

These wouldn't be difficult to add in. A simple calculation... "Can I get there by land?" Yes. "Is there any chance that going into the water will prove fatal?" Yes. Then stay on land!

If all barbarians are dead and a civ is not at war with anyone, then the water route is fine. Otherwise, beware, beware.
 
Vanilla, Zaimejs. Has it been so long? The forums have been combined for some time now.
 
The Mad Russian said:
I've never liked this whole insta-ship from land thing in Civ 5. I always enjoyed building transports in older Civ games. It just adds more immersion to it than the current system. Good idea for a thread.
Click to expand...

For "immersion" read - tedium here?

On op topic i agree that the AI acts poorly in this regard, not that it is brilliant at any other aspects of warfare. The insta ship is a godsend for the player though and helps to take out a huge annoyance of previous editions- may it never regress.
 
<shrug>

I personally consider auto-embarking to be one of the great innovations that Civ 5 introduced to the series.

In Civ 4, I would only ever achieve conquest/domination victories on Pangaea-like random map generations. I hated transporting troops over seas.
 
If you think it gives the enemy a profound disadvantage, then never attack one while it's embarked out of principle. If you think it makes your marine battles too easy, then resolve to only move two tiles per turn when you are embarked. Problem solved!

I absolutely despised the whole transport ship thing, and find the new way much more useful and convenient. And I have no qualms at one-shotting doofus when he runs his silly troops through the channel :lol:

I never even considered marine warfare before Civ 5. Sorting a pound of dried peas by size would have been more enjoyable. I do it a lot now ... er, marine warfare that is :)
 
fatboris said:
I agree but for a different reason.

When my settlers were done I moved them over and set up a new city, great artist was there, culture bombed Machu Picchu away from Isabella
Click to expand...

You can't culture bomb a wonder. The wonder may show a tile graphic on the map, but the wonder and the benefit stays with the city that built it.

fatboris said:
and rebased 4 B-17's before anyone knew what was going on. Since the tiles were hill, mountain, and forest and Isabella was busy with Bismarck, she had no idea I had set up, her cities couldn't see me. This was all done in less than 6 turns.
Click to expand...

You have visibility of all tiles within your culture borders without line of sight and if you culture bombed tiles away from her, I guarantee she know you were there, she just didn't do anything about it.
 
I think he might have denied her tha machu picchu if he culture bombed the only mountain tile next to the city. He wouldn't have the benefit but the wonder might have stopped working for her. Or it might stayed operational as the limitation might be only on constructing it and not on having a mountain tile later. Very interesting setup.
 
Maxym said:
I think he might have denied her tha machu picchu if he culture bombed the only mountain tile next to the city. He wouldn't have the benefit but the wonder might have stopped working for her. Or it might stayed operational as the limitation might be only on constructing it and not on having a mountain tile later. Very interesting setup.
Click to expand...

Nope, once a wonder is built I'm 99% sure all prerequisites no longer matter. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm POSITIVE it works that way for national wonders.
 
Aaron90495 said:
Nope, once a wonder is built I'm 99% sure all prerequisites no longer matter. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm POSITIVE it works that way for national wonders.
Click to expand...

I don't remember what happened to my gpt but when i went back and checked a turn later, hers were in the tank. That said, I have no idea what version it is I'm playing. I downloaded it from GameStop when it first came out and I have never updated it.
 
Another real pain of this insta-ship thing is when you select a unit to attack something or go a certain way to the enemy. You DON`T want it in water because it`ll be dead. But, to your shock, the unit decides it needs to travel round through that bit of sea right next to the enemy city or ship- Now it`s too late to pull it back. Dead soldier unit you spent ages to recruit and get good.

You don`t expect your troops in battle to take it upon themselves to jump into water right next to the enemy. It blows strategy and tactics. This `idea` was supposed to save on Mico-managing but it in fact INCREASES micro-managing because I have to move every unit hex by hex to make sure it don`t take a skinny dip!

This is one of those ideas the Dev thought was smart and no one around him had the balls to say, `Excuse me but won`t this cause problems for Player and especially the AI?` Nope, they all just went with it saying `Cool` and `awesome` brainlessly. A bit like when George Lucas came out with the script for the Phantom Menace and no one was brave enough to say `That script is crap`.

It`s so counter-intuitive. It`s stupid. It`s a facepalm madness.
 
woodshadows said:
it's super convenient for the human player though, i used to hate having to build transport ships to move units, in fact it meant i would rarely bother playing maps that involved any overland warfare, the hassle of getting enough transports together and then fitting enough units on each one, such a hassle. it is too bad the ai is programmed so stupidly when it comes to using water tiles though, you can really wipe them out hard with their tendency to jump into water.
Click to expand...

Do you mean "overseas warfare"?
 
I agree, it was a terrible idea. Plain and simple; it trivializes oceans too much. However, I understand why the old system could not work with the new 1UPT mechanics, so I accept it. I do wish they made some sort of compromise system. I've seen a mod do this. You can disembark anywhere, but you can only embark from a city (or the tiles around a city). I think the city also needed a harbor and there was a tile improvement that also allowed the effect.
 
Could units embark on a transport and set sail in 1 turn in previous games? If so then the 1 turn it cost to embark then set sail could be seen as the unit building it's own raft for those worried about immersion.
 
I think that it is one of the greatest ideas in order to remove pointless micromanaging since the substitution of pollution for health.
 
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