2019 NFL Offseason thread

[Timsup2nothin]

Tannehill is superior to the vast majority of starters in the league.

That doesn’t contract what I’m saying. I said he’s better than the vast majority of backups, not starters.

Ermmmmm. Okay.

The problem is, I'd flip them and make him the starter.

Mariota needs to prove something, and the Titans need to see if he is worth a long term investment. None of that happens if he is on the bench.

 

[rah]

Mariota has been given every chance and has only been able to attain mediocrity.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Mariota has been given every chance and has only been able to attain mediocrity.

Not every chance. The Titans made the classic error of "let's draft a quarterback and then build a team around him." For the most part he has been a young quarterback trying to learn to play in the NFL on a bad team. They are just now arriving at the point where they have any right to expect something from him, so they have to play him to see if he delivers.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Being better and having a better record are two different things.

This is gospel truth, and the Browns 0-16 season is a perfect example. They were arguably much better team than they were in the previous 1-15 season but they lost more really close heartbreakers to end up with a worse record. The fact that they were improving and losing so many close games is why I predicted prior to the 2018 season that they would end up with 6 to 8 wins.

 

[caketastydelish]

If I were an argumentative sort...oh, wait, I am an argumentative sort...I would ask you respectfully to back up this claim here.

And even if you could that doesn't change the fact that coming in on the minimal practice reps that a backup gets might be in his skill set but if it is it has never been demonstrated so assuming it is there seems...unrealistic.

I meant to say better than the vast majority of backups, not starters lmao... just realized my mistake.

Tannehill as a backup could be as legit as Nick Foles.

 

[caketastydelish]

Something random I just thought of:

Peyton Manning won a super bowl with one good team, then went to another team. With the second team, he won the Super Bowl with a very good defense that carried him and a strong run game to help him offensively.

There's a non-zero chance that Nick Foles will have the same story. Especially when Manning wasn't good at all during his Super Bowl championship in Denver. Foles wouldn't even have to be heroic necessarily, just an upgrade over Bortles, which I'm sure he is.

edit: this just in:

Texans offer the Dolphins Clowney and a first-round pick in exchange for Laremy Tunsil and the Dolphins refused because they thought it wasn't good enough. LMAO.

considering the Seahawks are one of the teams Clowney is interested in: Go ahead and have any one of our offensive linesmen in exchange for that deal and I REALLY hope our front office takes that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Something random I just thought of:

Peyton Manning won a super bowl with one good team, then went to another team. With the second team, he won the Super Bowl with a very good defense that carried him and a strong run game to help him offensively.

There's a non-zero chance that Nick Foles will have the same story. Especially when Manning wasn't good at all during his Super Bowl championship in Denver. Foles wouldn't even have to be heroic necessarily, just an upgrade over Bortles, which I'm sure he is.

edit: this just in:

Texans offer the Dolphins Clowney and a first-round pick in exchange for Laremy Tunsil and the Dolphins refused because they thought it wasn't good enough. LMAO.

considering the Seahawks are one of the teams Clowney is interested in: Go ahead and have any one of our offensive linesmen in exchange for that deal and I REALLY hope our front office takes that.

That isn't a good deal for the Dolphins because the Dolphins recognize that they are very far away from "right now" mode and Clowney is a right now player. The Squawks, on the other hand, are in right now mode, but I don't see any way they can come to terms with Clowney. Any team that makes that trade needs a big chunk of cap space available.

 

[caketastydelish]

We will have plenty of cap space available next offseason to give him a big extension. I'm not sure how much cap space the Dolphins will have, lazy to google.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

We will have plenty of cap space available next offseason to give him a big extension. I'm not sure how much cap space the Dolphins will have, lazy to google.

I looked it up, and the Squawks might have the space. Next offseason doesn't matter though. The only way any team makes that trade is if they have a deal in place ready to sign. Clowney is demonstrably unwilling to play without a long term deal, and parting with a first round pick to get a player you might only have for a year is very bad business.

 

[caketastydelish]

You're actually wrong. Clowney isn't able to sign a long term deal for this year, even if he wants to, because of the contract problem. Without this problem, his value would actually go way up. If the season ends and he plays like someone worthy of a long term deal we would give it to him. And the odds of that happening are pretty good.

edit: If it were possible to immediately lock him for the long term, thus guaranteeing you'll have him for several years, teams such as (and not limited to) the Cleveland Browns would have done this yesterday.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You're actually wrong. Clowney isn't able to sign a long term deal for this year, even if he wants to, because of the contract problem. Without this problem, his value would actually go way up. If the season ends and he plays like someone worthy of a long term deal we would give it to him. And the odds of that happening are pretty good.

edit: If it were possible to immediately lock him for the long term, thus guaranteeing you'll have him for several years, teams such as (and not limited to) the Cleveland Browns would have done this yesterday.

Cleveland doesn't have the depth at tackle to even be in consideration. I don't really think the Squawks do either. If they traded their starting left tackle what do they have to plug in there?

 

[caketastydelish]

Russell Wilson has put up amazing numbers behind an awful offensive line plenty of times. An efficient d-line, on the other hand, isn't something that is all but guaranteed to have.

The trade would make us a better overall team. If we didn't have such a mobile QB who is good at avoiding sacks, that be different. RW got a huge contract for a reason.

edit: As for the Browns their offense already has so many weapons that worse o-line wouldn't even hurt them THAT much. Phillip Rivers had a bad o-line last year but did more with less. I'm comfortable putting Mayfield in that category. OTOH giving them Clowney instantly gives them one of the best d-lines in the league.

edit 2: You're also leaving out the fact that the Seahawks, Browns, or whatever team, can simply use the first-rounder they'd get from the Texans to replace that o-lineman the very next year.

Edit 3: going back to what I was saying earlier, the fact that the Texans are actively looking to get ripped off in the first place shows just how desperate they are.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I dunno that they are "looking to get ripped off." They currently have a player who isn't playing and a goose egg at left tackle. They don't really have much choice but to use the one to solve the other, because that problem frankly has to be solved or this season might be a write off.

 

[caketastydelish]

Their d-line is guaranteed to take a massive hit without Clowney and to make matters worse they forfeit a first rounder (if not more) the following year. An o-line player would obviously help but overall they are losing. Without Clowney on the d-line they very well might get torched by any offense worth their salt considering the weakness of their secondary.

And of course, it will be a lot harder to patch up that problem for next year without a first rounder.

I agree that without a better o-line they’re toast, but the point is they are choosing between the lesser of two evils. It doesn’t smell like “division champs” at all.

 

[Light Cleric]

It's worth sacrificing some strength on your d-line to make sure Deshaun Watson doesn't die on the field from an o-line that has literally sacked him. I wouldn't be surprised if they're a little spooked by Luck's retirement.

 

[caketastydelish]

This is true. All I’m saying is this reeks of desperation, because without this context, everyone in the world would say a decent (not even particularly great) o-lineman in exchange for Clowney and a first (if not perhaps even more than that) would say the team trading Clowney and the picks is getting ripped off

This is like selling your 2,000 high end television set for 500 because no one else will give you more than that and you absolutely need rent money.

Yes that might “need” to do it but the fact that they got themselves in this situation in the first place speaks volumes about the organization.

Even if their offense is better after the trade, their defense will take such a beating from the loss (as well as their other defensive losses this offseason) that having a better offense will not make the team that much better overall. Whoever gets this trade is going to absolutely fleece them unless the o-lineman is Walter Jones kind of good.

edit: for reference, the Seahawks didn't have to give up anything remotely that good to get Duane Brown. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2741340-duane-brown-reportedly-traded-to-seahawks-from-texans

Not to mention the kind of players they're targeting are for the most part not even as good as Duane Brown.

Do you think the Seahawks would have seriously considered (at the time) giving up Frank Clark + a first-rounder for Duane Brown?

There's a difference between a good front office and a bad one.

 

[caketastydelish]

I am the happiest man in the world.

 

[caketastydelish]

We didn't even have to give them a starting o-lineman we only gave them replacement level players lolololo.

I'll also add the Hawks get a compensatory pick if Clowney doesn't stay after this year. Complete win.

They needed running back and o-line help and they managed to not only get robbed but not even improve their weakness during the robbery. I'll it again: there's a difference between a good front office and a bad one.

edit: the only way this wasn't an awful decision for the Texans is if Javeon Clowney absolutely hated the organization and wanted out as much as possible, so keeping him would have been toxic and they were desperate to get him off their hands. But a similar situation could be said for Duane Brown during that trade so...

 

[Light Cleric]

Texans: "we're literally going to not have a GM this year what's the worst that could happen"

also texans: *trades Clowney for a giant container of cheese balls from costco*

 

[caketastydelish]

Texans trade Clowney because there is already an abundance of clowns in the organization amirite?