Altered Maps ': To make a map larger than what it maps.

[eduhum]

Shamelessly self-promoting this video. I think you'll like it, though

Spoiler :

Link to video.

 

[JohannaK]

Oh, so that's you?

 

[Kyriakos]

So Eduhum, is that not a board but paper and with the globe map in some sort of glyph or otherwise see-through for yourself copy behind it?

Regardless, your avatar is vastly misleading. Cool look too

 

[eduhum]

My avatar is indeed misleading

Nothing will stop me from becoming the next world class famous Youtuber. pewdiepie? heh

 

[JohannaK]

It could be better, but it's really really good.

 

[Domen]

Shamelessly self-promoting this video. I think you'll like it, though.

You get a thumbs up & like from me for including Belarus, Kaliningrad Oblast and Lithuania within the borders of Poland.

It seems that you also partitioned Germany a little bit. Do I see another country next to Czech Republic? Nice.

 

[Tee Kay]

Oh, so that's you?

Do you like what you see?

 

[JohannaK]

Silly TK, it's not that.

It's just that since he is one of the if not the physically closest to me CFCers, I had this curiosity.

 

[Domen]

Interesting altered world - III Bethisad -, created by Andrew Smit in 1996 and developed since then also by other people:

http://www.bethisad.com/

http://steen.free.fr/

http://ib.frath.net/w/Main_Page

Romance languages:

http://steen.free.fr/index.html

http://ib.frath.net/w/Romance_Languages

Wenedyk (2002) demonstrates what Polish would have looked like if it had been a Romance language. It is essentially the result of applying the changes that made Polish develop from Common Slavic, on Vulgar Latin. If you like this idea, you might as well have a look at its sister project, Šležan (2004).

http://ib.frath.net/w/images/a/aa/Romance_languages_of_Europe.png



Rzejpubiełka Dwar Kronar - R.T.C. (the website is in Wenedyk language! ):

http://steen.free.fr/rtc/index.html

 

[Kyriakos]

That is a strange map (i mean the second one, the first is way beyond just strange ). I am sure it was not created by anyone from Serbia either

 

[Domen]

the first is way beyond just strange

I'm not familiar with history of this altered world, but if Wenedyk evolved from Vulgar Latin then I assume that either Poland in this scenario was part of the Roman Empire (in such case why isn't Germany also Romance-speaking?), or Latin influenced Polish Renaissance & Baroque much stronger than in reality.

The second scenario perhaps could have happened. Daniel Defoe, after travelling in Poland, wrote:

"Qui Latine loquitur, ab una parte Polonia usque ad alteram ire potest et in itinere tam sicut domi se credere potest, tamquam in terra illa natus esset. Quae Fortuna! Quidnam ageret homo nobilis, qui Angliam permigrare deberet nulliua alius linguae peritus quam Latinae!"

In English:

"Who only knows Latin can go across the whole of Poland from one side to the other one just like he was at his own home, just like he was born there. So great happiness! I wish a traveler in England could travel without knowing any other language than Latin!"

Such a Vulgar Latin would be a mix of Slavic Polish with Latin. Which is how this Wenedyk language sounds to me.

================================

Some Polish Renaissance and Baroque poets wrote satyrical poems mocking macaronization of Polish language through Latin influence.

For example "Carmen macaronicum" by Jan Kochanowski and "Macaronica" by Stanisław Orzelski. Here is "Carmen macaronicum":

http://lacina.info.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619

Carmen macaronicum de eligendo vitae futurae genere.

Est prope Wysokum celeberrima silva Krakovum
Quercubus insignis, multo miranda żołędzio
Istuleam spectans wodam Gdańskumque gościńcum;
Dąbie nomen habet, Dąbie dixere priores.

Hanc ergo, cum suchos torreret Syrius agros
Et rozganiaret non mądra Canicula żakos,
Ingredior, multum de conditione żywota
Deque statu vitae mecum myślando futurae;

Ecce autem meżos video adventare quaternos,
Dissimiles habituque oris et dispare barwa.

Ante alios słowis sic me compellat amicis
Funiger: Apparet, fili, quod et ipse fateretur
Vultus nescio quas animo te volvere curas
Et niepotrzebnas forsan.

Non me (respondit) srebri złotique cupido,
Zbierandique tenet niezbędnos cura pieniądzos
Nec wojewodarum sellas orłumque potentem
Ambio, wirzchorum czapkam quoque nolo duorum.
Omnibus his vacuum gero (diis sit gratia) pectus;
Noster in hoc omnes pozitus labor, unica cura est
Haec mea, quo pacto possim rządzare żywotum
Invidiaque procul bezpiecznum dirigere aevum.

Audisti mnichos, wysłuchatisque kapłanos
Et dworaninum facientem verba tulisti,
Extremus labor est atque hic brevis, ut ziemianinum
De swojo słuches dicentem pauca ziemiaństwo.

Nec tibi nostra aliquem pariat dissensio błędum,
Dum swojum laudat, dum cudzum quisque żywotum
Improbat, et swojum każdus te vellet habere.
Forsitan et monachus fieri, fierique kapłanus
Non mala conditio est, et habent sua commoda dwori.
Nec ziemianie carent. Sed tu wybierere memento
Vitam, naturae quae sit accomoda twojae.

Hoc inquirendum potius dworskumque żywotum,
An tibi conducat stanem wybierere ziemiańskum.

Sed miłe doma peti: swojus res optima kątus
Nulli flecto genu, sum wolnius, servio nulli,
Gaudeo libertate mea, pewnoque pokojo.
Non expono animam wiatris, longinqua petendo
Lucra, neque occido biednum lichwiando człowiekum.
Non habeo wielkos, sed nec desidero, skarbos,
Contentus sum sorte mea, własnamque paternis
Bobus aro ziemiam, quae me sustentat alitque
Ipsi epulas nati cnotliwaque żona ministrat,
Omne gotowa pati mecum, quodcumque ferat sors,
Sum procul invidia, bezpiecznos dormio somnos,
Spero nihil, curas abigo, nihil denique vivo.
Sic olim vixisse homines, cum złote fuerunt
Saecula, crediderim potius, quam flumina lacte
Manasse, et dębos miodum rosasse gotowum.
Atque haec pro stano paucis sint dicta ziemiańsko,
A quo si quisquam te sevocat, ille videtur
Omnino vitam tibi non życzare beatam.

=========================================

Perhaps had such satyrical mockery become the linguistic reality, the final result would have been be a Romance language like Wenedyk.

 

[Arakhor]

I don't recognize the term "macaronisation". What does it mean?

 

[Domen]

Macaronisation of a language is adopting a lot of terms or grammatical forms from foreign language(s) into this language.

In Polish it is called makaronizacja, because of Latin and Italian influence. Maybe in English there is no such term.

Edit: Oh and I also need to explain, that "makaron" is pasta in Polish. And pasta is something very Italian.

===============================

But you have the term "macaronic language":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaronic_language

An early example is from 1130, in the Gospel book of Munsterbilzen Abbey. The following sentence mixes late Old Dutch and Latin:

Tesi samanunga was edele unde scona
et omnium virtutum pleniter plena

A number of English political poems in the 14th century alternated (Middle) English and Latin lines, such as in MS Digby 196:

The taxe hath tened vs alle,
Probat hoc mors tot validorum
The Kyng þerof had small
ffuit in manibus cupidorum.
yt had ful hard hansell,
dans causam fine dolorum;
vengeaunce nedes most fall,
propter peccata malorum

In Scotland, macaronic songs have been popular among Highland immigrants to Glasgow, using English and Scottish Gaelic as a device to express the alien nature of the anglophone environment. An example:[6]

When I came down to Glasgow first,
a-mach air Tìr nan Gall.
I was like a man adrift,
air iomrall 's doll air chall.

And also the term "spaghetti code":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_code#Macaroni_code

 

[Kyriakos]

So would an example of macaronic be macadonic?

:csiglassesepisodeend:

 

[Arakhor]

Well, I did English Language at AS-level, but I don't recall that phrase. Ah, well. Thanks anyway.

 

[Domen]

Isn't English actually such a macaronic language?

I mean it is a Germanic language but more than 50% of its words are Non-Germanic. Mostly Romance.

======================

Another altered map:

"Map of United Poland" made in 1918 by Wiktor Skarga-Dobrowolski:



I marked cities located near these borders (288,776 km2):



What is interesting - there is no Slovakia according to this map. Instead, there is Hungary (Węgry) in place of Slovakia.

There is also no Czechoslovakia, only Czech Republic and Hungary to the south-east of it.

But there is independent Ukraine (including most of Western Ukraine - only Lwów region is Polish) and independent Belarus.

 

[brennan]

No. In modern usage the English vocabulary is far, far larger than any of its source languages.

The majority (estimates range from roughly 50%[89] to more than 80%[90]) of the thousand most common English words are Germanic.

...but:

In December 2010 a joint Harvard/Google study found the language to contain 1,022,000 words and to expand at the rate of 8,500 words per year.[87] The findings came from a computer analysis of 5,195,769 digitised books. Others have estimated a rate of growth of 25,000 words each year.

 

[Domen]

Of the thousand most common - OK. But I was talking about all English words (some 80,000), not just the most common ones.

And if "roughly 50%" is the correct figure for the one thousand most common words, then it still seems like a "mongrel language".

I found this info:

An analysis of 80,000 words in the Shorter Oxford Dictionary apparently yielded the following results for the origin of the words:

"Latin, 28.34 percent; French, 28.3 percent; Old and Middle English, Old Norse, and Dutch, 25 percent; Greek 5.32 percent; no etymology given, 4.03 percent; derived from proper names, 3.28 percent; all other languages, less than 1 percent."

If one excluded technical, obscure and highly literary words, the proportion of words of Germanic origin would surely be appreciably higher.

The language is Germanic in structure and in its basic vocabulary, but has borrowed an extraordinary number of words from other languages.

While another source says:

The grammatical structure of English sentences are more closely related to the Germanic languages, which is why it is considered Germanic that and the original English, Old English, the ancestor of modern English was very similar to the Ancient German languages.

The word origins of the English language are roughly 30% Germanic, 30% French, 30% Latin, and 10% Greek.

So actually when it comes to all words, only about 1/4 up to 1/3 are Germanic.


Link to video.

 

[Domen]

You even replaced such a basic word like "people(s)".

In Old English it was "leode" - which sounds very familiar to me, because in Polish the word is "ludzie" and in German "Leute".

Leute comes from Proto-Germanic *lūdiz and ludzie from Proto-Slavic *ljudъ. Both of them come from Proto-Indo-European *leudʰ-.

But you replaced the Old English word by "people", which is from Old French "peupel", which is from Latin "populus".

 

[Arakhor]

So, blame the Norman Conquest. It still makes our vocabulary quite possibly the richest and most extensive in the world.