Axeman Speculation

[LordProtector]

The thing is, that if it wasn't for how units work in Civ 5, the fact that Native's UU could mask itself as a Barbarian Unit wouldn't be a bad idea, problem is you'd KNOW that it is that Civ, because their icon would appear above them. UNLESS... Barbarian Units have acess to this unit, and so do Native Americans (I'm saying in general sense as not to point towards one tribe).

Yeah, I get that, but is there any reason why a disguised UU couldn't have no civ icon as part of it's coding/whatever, and a 'barbarian xyz' tool tip? You're right though, of course, if not. I just really hope there's more to this, either in the game play or in the set up of the screen shot than an 'Injun Barbarian' unit. That would be uncool.

I like your new Shaka theme btw Boz.

 

[moysturfurmer]

Had a thought. If by some miracle the tomahawk dude was a new barbarian unit, we would have heard about it in the previews by now. Just a passing "by the way, barbarians got a new unit type."

It's not as if barbarians were turned off in any of the preview builds. I'd say there's no doubt that this is a new civ's UU.

 

[Gucumatz]

No doubt that its a UU? Again, what? Not as ridiculous as the stuff on Facebook but nearly there...

Let me point this out again: We have not seen an early raiding unit on the tech tree. If it was a UU, everyone would automatically know who was attacking them. In a singlplayer standpoint imagine the tons of criticism a stupid mechanic like that would receive from players when they get attacked by a civ, without war being declared etc.

Also, this is the first time we have a Multiplayer Team being brought in by Firaxis for BNW. The fact that a raiding unit would have 0 plausible deniability, it would become an absolutely useless unit and a liability. Using it, would be effectively declaring war against another civ. Putting a UU like this is would be a slap in the face to the multiplayer community

We were promised in vanilla after questions about privateers like we had in Civ 4, if there would ever be a raiding UU - The answer was an absolute no. It would make no sense from a gameplay perspective and as we have been told a thousand times, gameplay trumps history in cases like this. Its closer to 0 chance that this is a new civ's unique unit with the only real chance is if barbarians can spawn UUs now (which makes little sense given current militaristic city state mechanics)

 

[moysturfurmer]

No doubt that its a UU? Again, what? Not as ridiculous as the stuff on Facebook but nearly there...

Let me point this out again: We have not seen an early raiding unit on the tech tree. If it was a UU, everyone would automatically know who was attacking them. In a singlplayer standpoint imagine the tons of criticism a stupid mechanic like that would receive from players when they get attacked by a civ, without war being declared etc.

Also, this is the first time we have a Multiplayer Team being brought in by Firaxis for BNW. The fact that a raiding unit would have 0 plausible deniability, it would become an absolutely useless unit and a liability. Using it, would be effectively declaring war against another civ. Putting a UU like this is would be a slap in the face to the multiplayer community

We were promised in vanilla after questions about privateers like we had in Civ 4, if there would ever be a raiding UU - The answer was an absolute no. It would make no sense from a gameplay perspective and as we have been told a thousand times, gameplay trumps history in cases like this. Its closer to 0 chance that this is a new civ's unique unit with the only real chance is if barbarians can spawn UUs now (which makes little sense given current militaristic city state mechanics)

Sorry, I should clarify: no doubt it's a UU that was mocked up to look like a barbarian [either because the civ's colors weren't finalized or because they wanted to throw us a red (and black) herring so we'd spend more time speculating about its place in the final release].

I'd eat my shoe if the axeman's unique ability was goading other civs to kill it.

 

[Yzman]

Sorry, I should clarify: no doubt it's a UU that was mocked up to look like a barbarian [either because the civ's colors weren't finalized or because they wanted to throw us a red (and black) herring so we'd spend more time speculating about its place in the final release].

I'd eat my shoe if the axeman's unique ability was goading other civs to kill it.

He was commenting on how you are saying no doubt. There is definitely a doubt that you are wrong, in fact, I would say its more than likely NOT A UU.

 

[fat_tonle]

I think it is a UU with unfinished colors. Or the Iroquois may get a revamp. This unit could replace musketmen and be an alternative melee unit that have some flanking or movement bonus to kill 17th-18 century European units. Longhouse is a kind of lame UI. Why would Natives get production boosts? Otherwise they simple added another civ on the Eastern Seaboard of the US, alongside the Iroquois. I don't think Sioux Indians would be effective with all the horse based civs we have now.

 

[CanaDutch]

Have we seen any Barbarians in other screenshots? Maybe the Axeman is the UU and the black and red are the colors of the Civ? Wasn't there this Shawnee guy with black and red face paint? And maybe Barbarians have the same color combination in reverse .

 

[True_Candyman]

Have we seen any Barbarians in other screenshots? Maybe the Axeman is the UU and the black and red are the color of the Civ? And maybe Barbarians have the same color combination in reverse .

I recommend you check the barbarian colour change thread.

 

[ImperialChaos]

Had a thought. If by some miracle the tomahawk dude was a new barbarian unit, we would have heard about it in the previews by now. Just a passing "by the way, barbarians got a new unit type."

It's not as if barbarians were turned off in any of the preview builds. I'd say there's no doubt that this is a new civ's UU.

Well seeing as how BNW get's an entirely new city-swapping feature that could be game changing and THAT wasn't covered in any previews then I highly doubt something so miniscule would get covered as well. Previews are mostly for gameplay, etc. Things that make a video game.

 

[CanaDutch]

I recommend you check the barbarian colour change thread.

Oh haha thanks, I didn't know such a thread existed .

 

[Rajul]

2 theories that don't go together:

1) This unit is a barbarian unit. The devs may have introduced ethnic diversity for barbarians due to archeology. It appears that artifacts are linked to the culture of their original owner ("brazilian" artifact, "bucharest" artifact...) maybe for the purpose of creating some theming. We have yet to see a barbarian artifact, but we may have some "european" artifacts, "native american" artifacts, "african" artifacts, instead of a vague "barbarian" artifacts. (On a sidenote, it's likely that the SFA scenario will include some generic african units, that could be reused as african barbarians.)

2) This unit is a UU. The Tomahawk and the hairstyle seem to point toward an Eastern Woodland nation. Shawnee or Seminole are credible candidates but imho they seriously lack in reputation, at least outside of the United States.
On the contrary, Sioux are very famous but the mysterious unit seems to not fit them... at first. Thanks to google I learned the existence of the Osage, who consider themselves as southern Sioux. Here are somes pictures of Osage leaders (Black Dog and Star Chief):

​

So, I think it's possible to have a Sioux civ with the mysterious unit as an Osage Warrior. In this case the Sioux would probably have a second UU with a more traditionnal Lakota horseman (Trade routes raider?).

 

[baptismbyfire]

What if the barbarians now borrow unit types, including unique units, from one of the nearest civs to their spawning grounds? It wouldn't be like they were being singled out as a barbarian civilization at that point because every civ could be represented as barbarians. It would make historical sense, since barbarians often aren't totally closed off genetically or technologically from the closest civs.

 

[Dunkah]

Barbarian is just a pet name that Firaxis came up with to put a label on the unit that causes some hurdles early on in your civilization.

In real life there were many names: Barbarian, Headhunter, Bandits, Banditos, Savages, Locals etc etc...

For any group to think they are being singled out would be unrealistic.

We keep sayinf that the Barbs are modeled off of the Europeans, Germanics, why aren't they upset?

Wouldn"t Native American's be present in the ACW scenario? Could be a unit for that scenario only.

 

[ImperialChaos]

Most of the Shawnee warriors I see are dabbed in red war paint, and it is sometimes on their hair, and they lack mohawks and instead just have a small patch of hair on the back of their head. The "axemen" look nothing like them.

Examples:

Spoiler :

 

[baptismbyfire]

Barbarian is just a pet name that Firaxis came up with to put a label on the unit that causes some hurdles early on in your civilization.

In real life there were many names: Barbarian, Headhunter, Bandits, Banditos, Savages, Locals etc etc...

For any group to think they are being singled out would be unrealistic.

We keep sayinf that the Barbs are modeled off of the Europeans, Germanics, why aren't they upset?

Wouldn"t Native American's be present in the ACW scenario? Could be a unit for that scenario only.

I don't think it is limited to the ACW scenario. The picture has them in a game with Assyria.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Oddly enough, while searching for "[X] warrior" of the various Po-Z native American possibilities mentioned (Sioux, Powhatan, Shawnee, and Seminole), the Powhatan had the warriors that most closely resembled the unit.

Although I don't think it says too much at this point.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I recently went searching for NA warriors that would resemble the Tomahawk Warrior too. The only thing i could take away from the experience is that almost all Eastern Woodland, and a few Plains tribes looked like the TW. There is no way to determine the civ by looking at the unit.

 

[ImperialChaos]

Interestingly, here is a famous painting by C.M. Russell with a Sioux warrior using a Tomahawk:

Spoiler :

Not that it means anything, but it is an interesting painting of the Sioux and Blackfoot tribes.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

On horseback, mind you. If it were a Sioux unit, they would not be afoot.

 

[Monado]

On horseback, mind you. If it were a Sioux unit, they would not be afoot.

That one guy being stabbed there is afoot.