Can women and men just be friends?

[PlutonianEmpire]

Just because you started hanging out without sharing any sexytimes doesn't exclude the possibility of sexytimes in the future, you need to be explicit about that with dudes. They're not wrong to guess that friendship might lead to sexytimes, that does happen.

The one thing I frequently hear from those around me in real life is when it comes to relationships, it's important to be "friends first".

In my opinion, that's setting me up for failure, because like most guys, I desire sexytimes, but expecting to have sexytimes with someone after becoming friends with them is only going to lead to trouble. Telling me to be "friends first, then gf/bf" is only going to automatically make me think that I'll someday be their significant other, or otherwise have sexytimes with them, which will lead me to making actions that will in the end only ruin the friendship.

In the end, it probably just depends on the persons involved. Generally, I doubt that a guy and girl can be just friends.

 

[Hygro]

The one thing I frequently hear from those around me in real life is when it comes to relationships, it's important to be "friends first".

In my opinion, that's setting me up for failure, because like most guys, I desire sexytimes, but expecting to have sexytimes with someone after becoming friends with them is only going to lead to trouble. Telling me to be "friends first, then gf/bf" is only going to automatically make me think that I'll someday be their significant other, or otherwise have sexytimes with them, which will lead me to making actions that will in the end only ruin the friendship.

In the end, it probably just depends on the persons involved. Generally, I doubt that a guy and girl can be just friends.

on okcupid, there is a question that asks you to rank the following in preferred chronological order: "friends, lovers, love, attraction"

Almost all girls ranked it:

"attraction -> friends -> lovers/love -> lovers/love"

There's a VERY important key here. Attraction comes before "friends". Friends never comes before attraction for it to turn into something.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Boundless, it's a slightly heartbreaking situation when that happens but it's a mistake tons of young women make, thinking they can base friendships with men on the things that attracts men to women. The moment flirtiness, sex appeal, roundabout attraction is what draws together a friendship, the moment you need to assume unless proven otherwise that that is not actually a friendship.

So go forth knowing from here on you can't do that anymore. You can't be intimate friends with a guy and have a flirty relationship at all, unless it's really laid bare and you are both explicitly on the same page.

This is truly a great post, and probably the thread winner. So I'm going to put it here to make sure it doesn't get buried at the bottom of page 2.

 

[SuperJay]

+10 points to Cheetah for accurate XKCDing!

 

[PlutonianEmpire]

on okcupid, there is a question that asks you to rank the following in preferred chronological order: "friends, lovers, love, attraction"

Almost all girls ranked it:

"attraction -> friends -> lovers/love -> lovers/love"

There's a VERY important key here. Attraction comes before "friends". Friends never comes before attraction for it to turn into something.

Do internet polls even remotely reflect real life?

If the opinion I stated in the post you quoted is indeed wrong, then I stand corrected.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

If you are at least remotely attracted to a guy, and he happen to be your friend, why not sleep with him once? Would be unfriend-like if you have decided to keep the sexual tension between you and him and not doing anything about it. To me, that's torture.

 

[JohnRM]

It is damn tough. Most people don't have the wherewithal to pull it off.

 

[barell]

I voted Only for some circumstances and I am surprised that it got so little votes. Most men that have a good female friend usually like her secretly. Same is for women, but it happens less often. In almost all of the cases, someone likes someone. I mean, it's easier for a man to hit on his female friend than to go to a club and use lines like these http://pickuplinesblog.com/ on women...men are cowards sometimes, that is the real truth

 

[Mise]

Everyone's said everything already, so I'll just post another comic:
http://drawingboardcomic.com/index.php?comic=159

Spoiler :

 

[BvBPL]

Yes, men and women can be just friends. However this does not discount the possibility of sexual tension occasionally. Boys will need to learn to keep in their pants, and girls need to be able to dismiss the occasional pass from a friend.

Juggling that get a LOT easier in about five years. That will allow the lads to better understand their place on the two ladders.

 

[Aegis]

Yes, but I know guys are often all too happy to be willing to pretty girls they are friends with even though it may jeopardize the friendship.

Guys tend to be less attracted to female best friends they've had since they were children though.

I do not base this on anything scientific.

There actually is a scientific basis for that train of thought:

Reverse sexual imprinting is also seen: when two people live in close domestic proximity during the first few years in the life of either one, both are desensitized to later close sexual attraction. This phenomenon, known as the Westermarck effect, was first formally described by Finnish anthropologist Edvard Westermarck in his book The History of Human Marriage (1891). The Westermarck effect has since been observed in many places and cultures, including in the Israeli kibbutz system, and the Chinese Shim-pua marriage customs, as well as in biological-related families.

In the case of the Israeli kibbutzim (collective farms), children were reared somewhat communally in peer groups—based on age, not biological relation. A study of the marriage patterns of these children later in life revealed that out of the nearly 3,000 marriages that occurred across the kibbutz system, only fourteen were between children from the same peer group. Of those fourteen, none had been reared together during the first six years of life. This result provides evidence not only that the Westermarck effect is demonstrable, but that it operates during the period from birth to the age of six.[4]

When proximity during this critical period does not occur—for example, where a brother and sister are brought up separately, never meeting one another—they may find one another highly sexually attractive when they meet as adults. This phenomenon is known as genetic sexual attraction. This observation supports the hypothesis that the Westermarck effect evolved because it suppressed inbreeding. This attraction may also be seen with cousin couples.
[edit] Westermarck and Freud

Freud argued that as children, members of the same family naturally lust for one another, making it necessary for societies to create incest taboos,[5] but Westermarck argued the reverse, that the taboos themselves arise naturally as products of innate attitudes.

Steven Pinker wrote on the subject:

The idea that boys want to sleep with their mothers strikes most men as the silliest thing they have ever heard. Obviously, it did not seem so to Freud, who wrote that as a boy he once had an erotic reaction to watching his mother dressing. But Freud had a wet-nurse, and may not have experienced the early intimacy that would have tipped off his perceptual system that Mrs. Freud was his mother. The Westermarck theory has out-Freuded Freud.
—Steven Pinker, How the Mind Works

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect#Westermarck_effect

 

[Virote_Considon]

For what it's worth, I have plenty of woman friends. A small number I would (and and even smaller actually have) try it on with. A large number I wouldn't, and the circumstances as to why vary with each. Sometimes with those I would, it's factors outside of me and said girl in particular that stop either of us making a move, and thus we ain't got round to it, etc. The vast majority of them are friends within various friendship groups, and a fair number of them I've known for so long that I just can't find them attractive. If it was a friend's girlfriend, I wouldn't go for her, even after they'd split up (bro's before ho's and stuff). Or if they were good friends with a bird I'd slept with or such, so long as the latter is also keeping such a distance from my good friends.

Only to be disapointed to find out that she's already taken.

Doesn't necessarily have to stop you.

Don't get me started with the woman putting a man in the dreaded friends zone. Once your in it, you can't get out of it.

Yes you can.

Also, sleeping in the same bed?? If one of you have no sexual interest in the other, that needs to be said beforehand I'd say!

A male and female friend sleeping in the same bed in a non-sexual way is nothing important, nor nothing new. If sexual interest is not assumed, then I don't see the problem; if the guy is not showing his sexual interest which he actually has, then it's his problem and he should either man up or suck it up and ignore it.

 

[Masquerouge]

I say yes, but it's easier when you're not single

 

[Aegis]

I'll admit it. I'm a guy, and when meeting a new woman the thought process goes like this:
1. Is she attractive enough that I'd want to have sex with her?
2. If so, is she also interesting enough that I'd want to be in a relationship with her?
3. Wait, she's talking - better start paying attention and maybe I'll figure out the answer to the previous question...

This is fairly accurate.

Regardless of what previous (or following) posters have said, I refuse to believe that if they have an attractive female friend, that have never wanted to have sex with her.

What people think/want is different from what they'd actually do. Personally, the negative consequences of attempting such an endeavor outweighs any desire I might have. The reasons why I have ended relationships before are the same reasons why I would not pursue a new relationship with someone else: I realize that it would not work out.

There is nothing wrong with finding a friend attractive, but if you understand that that person has an important character trait that is incompatible with your own, that makes it easier to keep things platonic.

For instance, I'm a competitive guy who wants to do my best at sports, even if I lose. It is my belief that you should always try your hardest because showing 'heart' matters to me. It shows that you care, that you did your best to succeed, and that your opponent had to work hard in order to win. If at the end of the day, you have done your best and still fail, you can still rest well knowing that you gave it your best shot and that your opponent respects you for not being an easy adversary to defeat.

Contrasting this to a girl I knew, who was so uncompetitive that she didn't even want to play boardgames for fear of losing. When she was growing up and trying games/sports, her father would put her down whenever she failed, and it became ingrained into her that if she could not be the absolute best at something, then she might as well not even try. That mindset never made sense to me because, how can one become the best if they never try, or never keep practicing? That defeatist mindset is a deal-breaker for me as that would cause major problems in the relationship, plus that is not an attitude that I would want passed on to my children.

In another instance, I once dated a Catholic girl who, whenever we made out, had flashes of Jesus going through her mind, making her feel guilty. That, in conjunction with having to attend depressing, soul-crushing sermons at her church and dealing with her uber-conservative family caused me to never want to date another devout Catholic girl again.

So sure, I might find a girl attractive and wouldn't mind sleeping with her, but if I know that it would not make for a good relationship, I would not actively try to sleep with her or start up a relationship because I understand that would only lead to huge headaches for the both of us.

 

[Arwon]

Not all men can be friends with all women.

This doesn't negate that some can with some. There are women I am great friends with and that's always been it, there are others with whom there can be no possible ground between sex/romantic involvement and nothing. It's not strictly a matter of attractiveness (just cos I think they're hot doesnt mean I'm into them) or personality compatibility or any other objective rubric. It's not even whether they're my type or not. These things are mysterious and random.

Different people are different, yo.

Edit: ALSO, friends can have sex sometimes without implicit romantic subtext. Been there too. Sometimes it's just alcohol and/or horniness.

 

[IglooDame]

I say yes, but it's easier when you're not single

It's also easier when you're older than 25 or so and the bubbling cauldron of hormones has simmered down a bit.

 

[SuperJay]

What people think/want is different from what they'd actually do. Personally, the negative consequences of attempting such an endeavor outweighs any desire I might have.

Yep, this. Some of the cool cats in this thread seem to think that seeing your female friend as attractive or actually desiring her at one point or another means you are not actually friends - and I say bollocks to that! How does that make you any LESS friends? Harboring some secret soul-consuming adoration is different than going "damn, she looks good right now." Hell, I'll tell them that straight up. It's not weird or awkward and I'm not actually trying to get in their pants, it's just acknowledging that yeah, you've got a nice rack.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Nah, there's always a thing called willpower. What if you're attracted to someone, despite being married (it happens, you know!)? And perhaps you think that your partner and family (and possibly their partner and family) are worth more than the consequences of acting on said attraction? Happens all the time in the real world.

That's a different situation, when there are commitments. But even in commitments, there can be attraction, and many have slipped.

Regardless of what previous (or following) posters have said, I refuse to believe that if they have an attractive female friend, that have never wanted to have sex with her. And in the fairyland where there are no consequences, of course they'd all try to have sex with them.

Pretty much spot on.

There are too many AFCs (average frustrated chumps) running around with this false sense that if they befriend a girl first, they are more likely to get with her, when all they do is lapse into the friend zone with no hope of escape.

 

[warpus]

Men and women CAN be "just friends", but the thing is that if you're even slightly attractive, things can get "interesting".

Let me explain what I mean. Women (maybe not all women, but a lot of y'all) have this uncontrollable tendency to be cute and flirty. Now, even if you're just being friendly, men pick up on that as "she might be interested". It's subconscious. It attracts us. We will want to sleep with you, even if we don't think about it consciously at first.

It shouldn't be an issue if you're both mature, but I'm not surprised that ALL of your "lad friends" (or whatever) have declared they have feelings for you. From what I've seen you like to all go out to clubs, dressed in provocative non-burqa like attire, and dance the night away. There is obviously some physical contact there, and cleavage. That's all it takes.

GOOD LUCK

 

[SuperJay]

...dressed in provocative non-burqa like attire...

...and cleavage. That's all it takes.

Brilliant, as always.