Civ 5: Civilizations/Leaders Wanted!

[TPangolin]

The idea: Although it's nice to think that Australia could be an amalgam civilization spanning a long period of time yet covering the same geographic area (thus echoing Russia, Ethiopia, Germany, Japan, Arabia, Denmark and the like) - Australia, much like Canada and America in the Civilization series should be a represented by being a unique late game power, and thus I have chosen to them to be what they are seen as in the 19th-21st Century - A Colonial Nation, with many multicultural peoples, being culturally unique and famous for it's Tourism.

Civilization: Australia

Leader: Robert Menzies

Spoiler :

Capital: Sydney

Start Bias: Coastal

Emblem: Green and Gold, Aboriginal Waterhole Symbol

Spoiler :

Unique Ability: Colonialist Origins - May not gain settlers or annex cities until the Modern Age. Workers can found puppeted cities. Maritime Trade Routes are unplunderable and the City Owner receives +2 and +2 for each Maritime Trade Route with a different Civilization or City-State.

The First part of this ability is to recognize that Australia was a Colonial nation, founding puppet cities and only having the ability to annex them in the Modern Era essentially represents that Australia was not a federated nation until 1901. The second part of the ability borrows of the Moroccan Culture and Gold Trait. It is essentially representative of the fact that many immigrants throughout Australia's history have come to the Island/Continent via boat - whether it be English Convicts, German Free Settlers or Great Masses of Refugees following the outbreak and conclusion of the Depression, WWI, WWII and the Vietnamese War.

Unique Unit: Digger Infantry - Replaces Great War Infantry, is cheaper, can build roads and gives a boost when gifted to other players.

This is representative of the ANZAC troops that fought in many a battle overseas and on behalf of another civilization, including but limited to the Boer War (where the term 'Digger' was first widely used), the First and Second World Wars, Korean War and of course the Vietnam War. The culture boost is a one off thing, that works similar to the way the Portuguese Nau does.

Unique Building: Wildlife Sanctuary - Replaces the Hotel, requires Zoo, +40% of the output of Wonders in the city added to Tourism. Great Work Tourism in the city +40%. +1 for every worked animal tile in this city and +1 Marsupials unique Luxury Resource.

This is to represent Australia's affinity towards wildlife and fauna - although the building is not uniquely Australian, nearly every city in Australia embraces their love and subsequent pride for Australian wildlife by having either a Zoo, Wildlife Sanctuary or a service that pretty much represents the unbreakable of bond that the Australian peoples have to their unique fauna. The Hotel originally adds 50% to each aspect, but I've toned it down to 40% to compensate for the effects the Hotel has (admittedly it does sound a bit odd to be able to trade Marsupials, however you can still trade crab, ivory and truffles).

I've made most of the art assets for it so far, so after some feedback - anyone willing to help me turn this into a mod?

 

[Nyanko]

Menzies is controversial (whose only real achievement is being the longest serving PM... and selling Pig Iron to Imperial Japan); so is the other key choice, Chifley, as they are clearly viewable in a political bias.
My choices for an apolitical Australian leader head would be Henry Parkes, Premier of NSW and "farther of Federation", who did great things in uniting the Australian colonies into a nationstate or Lachlan Macquarie, the last Autocratic governor of New South Wales, famed for the massive amount of public building which laid the foundations for colonial Australia.

 

[awesome]

What about a version of Korea's UA?

So, someone on these forums expressed a wish for a Swiss civ based on neutrality. I'm curious as to how that would be achieved. I'm thinking a neutral position can be demonstrated by having an Embassy but not a Declaration of Friendship or War (enemy Denouncements shouldn't affect your neutrality, and you should be trying to keep at peace). As for the bonus for each civ Switzerland is neutral towards, what would be suitable? Extra culture multiplier seems general enough to work. This plus the previous suggestions for Swiss Guard and Swiss Banks would make for a neat civ, IMO.

Hmmm, maybe cultural version of korea.

As for a peaceful civ...maybe a bonus to tourism from peace and/or foreign trade routes? Or maybe a diplomatic bonus of some kind?

 

[TPangolin]

Menzies is controversial (whose only real achievement is being the longest serving PM... and selling Pig Iron to Imperial Japan); so is the other key choice, Chifley, as they are clearly viewable in a political bias.
My choices for an apolitical Australian leader head would be Henry Parkes, Premier of NSW and "farther of Federation", who did great things in uniting the Australian colonies into a nationstate or Lachlan Macquarie, the last Autocratic governor of New South Wales, famed for the massive amount of public building which laid the foundations for colonial Australia.

Parkes was also my first choice, but as a leaderhead he is far less iconic and less representative of Australia in the 20-21st century. Barton is another nice choice, even though his achievements were limited.

 

[Nyanko]

Parkes was also my first choice, but as a leaderhead he is far less iconic and less representative of Australia in the 20-21st century. Barton is another nice choice, even though his achievements were limited.

The Australia faction that I'd push myself would be less representative of modern Australia but rather late colonial Australia. With Light Horse as the UU *Cavalry with Defensive Bonuses* and Showground as the UB *Replaces circus, can be built where there are sheep, cattle, horses or wheat*
With an agricultural based UA; "A Sunburnt Country" - Cities that work a Bonus Resource gain 1/2 the yield; and trade routes to or from that city gain a 25% bonus in yield *food or gold*

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I'm not seeing a suggestion based on modern Turkey, so I'll go ahead and suggest a UA.

Six Arrows: Cannot generate any Prophets with Faith or World Wonders (receive Great Person of choice instead). Can purchase other Great Persons with Faith before the Industrial Era.

Thoughts? Is it overpowered? If it is, I suggest increasing the cost or even limiting the benefits of other Religions (restrict Belief benefits, prevent official adoption,etc.), except for Pantheons.

 

[phaethon16]

I would say that's it's underpowered in a way. Basically, you're massively limiting the ability of the Turks to found a religion, which is a significant drawback. The rest of it sounds ok, but since religion has become more central to game play, I think limiting a civs ability to found a religion would be unpopular. Also, it doesn't really matter, but since the Turks are modern, it doesn't really make sense to give them an ability that flourishes more in the older eras.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I should add a discount then. Personally, Great People at a time of your choosing sounds far more useful than most religion bonuses. Maybe even reducing the scaling of the amount of Faith needed.

As for the last concern, I'm not sure that matters. Serenissima is at its strongest in the Classical (new, guaranteed, well-developed city) and post-Industrial (massive intercontinental merchant navy) eras, and we know that the Republic of Venice wasn't at maximum prominence in those historical periods.

 

[TPangolin]

The Australia faction that I'd push myself would be less representative of modern Australia but rather late colonial Australia. With Light Horse as the UU *Cavalry with Defensive Bonuses* and Showground as the UB *Replaces circus, can be built where there are sheep, cattle, horses or wheat*
With an agricultural based UA; "A Sunburnt Country" - Cities that work a Bonus Resource gain 1/2 the yield; and trade routes to or from that city gain a 25% bonus in yield *food or gold*

The problem I have with most of the Workshop mods out there is the fact that the Unique Buildings are slotted in waayyyyyyyyy too early. Having a Circus UB would make no sense for Australia. UA's are Timeless - but UU's and UB's cannot be.

Anyway, after some discussion with others I've made some adjustments to the Australian Civ to make it less Venice-y and more unique on it's own.

So.... Here goes:

The idea for Australia is for it to play as a Culture, Trade and Tourism civ with an emphasis on Coastal Cities and Workers just as Brazil happens to be a Culture, Golden Age and Tourism civ with an emphasis on Jungles and Great People.

Civilization: Australia (revised)

Leader: Robert Menzies// Edmund Barton// Henry Parkes

Capital: Sydney

Emblem: Green and Gold, Aboriginal Waterhole Symbol

Spoiler :

Start Bias: Coastal

Unique Ability: We've Boundless Plains to Share - May not gain Settlers, however Workers can found Puppeted cities. City Owner receives +1 Tourism and +10% Growth for each Maritime Trade Route to another Civilization or City-State, Trade Route owners receive +2 Culture for each Trade Route sent to Australia.

(Can also add in +2 Happiness for Coastal Cities there too, although it might be a bit too cluttered)

Unique Unit: Digger Infantry - Replaces Great War Infantry, 45 , can upgrade from Workers. Earns Culture when defeating an enemy.

(Weaker than the GWI, latter half is essentially a quasi-nerfed Aztec UA, upgrades to Mechanized Infantry)

Unique Building: Hostel - Replaces the Hotel, +40% Culture of the output of Wonders in the city added to Tourism. Great Work Tourism in the city +40%. +1 Tourism for every worked Animal and Natural Wonder tiles in this city, requires no Maintenance.

 

[awesome]

I don't know how I feel about that idea. It seems kind of gimmicky just for the sake of having a weird gimmick. Why not just have settlers found puppeted cities and both workers and diggers able to build improvements (like the first idea)? I don't know why they would get culture from kills, but add that on there, too, I guess.
This doesn't sound like a very unique civilization, though, so I don't think I like it very much, even with these changes that I suggested. I'm not sure how to say this, but maybe you guys should focus more on building a unique civ than a pro civ.

 

[TPangolin]

I don't know how I feel about that idea. It seems kind of gimmicky just for the sake of having a weird gimmick. Why not just have settlers found puppeted cities and both workers and diggers able to build improvements (like the first idea)? I don't know why they would get culture from kills, but add that on there, too, I guess

Australia by and large is a massive country, with population scattered around beautiful coastal cities. The idea here is to make a massive Tourism country, whilst not restricting the growth of the capital. If you adopt liberty, get a free worker, and build the pyramids - that is essentially 3 free cities before other civilizations have a chance to pop out a singe settler. Remember that with these changes cities are now annexable before the modern era. Considering adding +2 Happiness, +2 Food, +2 Tourism for Coastal cities instead of the other latter half trait (it'd be easier to code too).

I've also since found out that "Digger Gift" probably was undoable, so the next best thing is for them to earn culture for Australia. Still a WIP.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

I gotta agree with Awesome, it doesn't seem great to me either. The UA is just like an edited Morocco, so gameplay with the 2 of them will be very, very similar but it has the 'workers found cities' gimmick thrown in that doesn't seem like it would enhance gameplay other than just training a worker instead of a settler, which doesn't stop growth so just ends up OP, puppet or no (which is too much like Venice anyway)

The Diggers are just the Aztec UA/Brazil UU, really quite uninteresting and not very representative of these guys or Australia as a whole

The Hostel is actually not bad, though might end up being really OP, besides, I don't actually think it fits with Australia, while it has had some tremendous accomplishments as a nation, Australia lacks its own culture, so having all the 3 elements of this geared towards a cultural victory is like having a modern swiss civ geared towards domination victory. Perhaps some less focused advantages for a nation that hasn't quite found its place on the world stage yet.

 

[phaethon16]

Armenia

Capital: Yerevan
Leader: Tigranes II
Unique Ability: Bastion of the Faith. So long as the first dominant religion in Armenia stays dominant, religious buildings give +2 and add a point of religious pressure each. So long as Armenia retains control over its original capital, the capital has a 25% boost to Great Person production.
Unique Unit: Ayrudzi. Replaces horseman. When producing an Ayrudzi, gold produced by the city counts as production. No maintenance cost when within two tiles of the capital, and it ignores unit's zone of control when within friendly territory.
Unique Art/Artifact: Khachkar. In the Medieval and Renaissance eras, all Great Works of art are Khachkars. All artifacts produced by archaeologists are Khackhars. A Khachkar yields +2 and doubles the effects of the temple that's in it's city. (Doesn't stack.)

How to play Armenia

Armenia is without a doubt another tall, religious, and defensive civ. What sets it apart from other defensive civs (like Babylon,) other religious civs (like Byzantium,) and other defensive religious civs (like Ethiopia) is how it uses all of its various aspect more as a weapon than other civs might. Starting with the UA, Armenia is not dependent on founding a religion, it just has to keep the first one which becomes dominant. Right off the bat, Armenia is able to be more aggressive in religion, because it doesn't have to waste its time founding one.

Once Armenia has a religion, all religious buildings make it easier to defend cities, and the religion they practice by giving defensive bonuses and increasing the religious pressure coming from their cities. It's possible to have four religious buildings per city (shrine, temple, and two follower belief buildings) so that's a considerable amount of defense and religious pressure.

Adding to all of this is that the capital produces more Great People, giving them a cultural advantage. If the capital has an Artist's Guild, things become even better for them, because all Medieval and Renaissance Great Works of art become faith producing temple enhancing Khachkars. Considering temples (as religious buildings) are already enhanced by the UA and that some religious beliefs enhance temples further (Feed the World and Choral Music) this can be a really hefty bonus. Khachkars don't stop coming in the Industrial era, because all artifacts are Khachkars. All the faith they produce can be funneled into strengthening your religion, which makes sure that all these bonuses remain viable.

Lastly, the Ayrudzi keeps your capital safe, because they can be produced more quickly, cost less maintenance near your capital, and can maneuver through enemy lines easily. The only promotion that carries through after being upgraded is that they cost less maintenance near the capital, but if you can maintain a large cavalry corps that defends what should be your most important city, that's pretty decent.

Overall, Armenia is able to defend themselves, but because they can produce a lot of cavalry early on, their religion offers them a lot of security, and because the capital gets a Great Person bonus, Armenia is a little more interactive than some other defensive civs. They're most suited to a cultural victory, what with their emphasis on artifacts and light emphasis on Great People, but being secure can open up a civilization to do a number of things. So, while they can go cultural more easily than some other victories, they could also excel at science, diplomacy, or even possibly military. Early conquests with the Ayrudzi could go a long way in that direction.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

How about instead of the random chance, artifacts with Armenian identity are Khachkars? Alternatively, they could replace Landmarks for Armenia.

 

[LocutusofBorg01]

I got really bored at work, so I came up with a few ideas...I know they've been suggested before, but these are a bit different take on the civilizations than what I've seen. I honestly don't know if the game is coded to allow some of these:

Hebrew Kingdom
Leader: Solomon
UA: "Strangers in a foreign land": Units receive +15% for the first 10 turns of a war. Does not stack.
UU: Zealot (replaces swordsman): Weaker and cheaper than swordsmen. Ignores terrain cost.
UB: Tabernacle. Replaces shrine. +1 and +1 from every pasture worked by the city.

Sparta (symbol: Lambda)
Leader: Leonidas
UA: Helots: Units receive double XP from barbarians. Unit receives free promotion when razing a city. When a unit is stationed in a city, may sacrifice for XP.
UU: Phalanx (replaces spearman): Begins with shock. +10% vs ranged units.
UU: Spartan diplomat (replaces Great General): Same effect as great general, plus: When unit ends turn in a city state's territory, gain +5 . When unit ends turn next to an allied city-state's units, those units receive the same combat bonus as the player's units.

 

[Viregel]

I got really bored at work, so I came up with a few ideas...I know they've been suggested before, but these are a bit different take on the civilizations than what I've seen. I honestly don't know if the game is coded to allow some of these:

Hebrew Kingdom
Leader: Solomon
UA: "Strangers in a foreign land": Units receive +15% for the first 10 turns of a war. Does not stack.
UU: Zealot (replaces swordsman): Weaker and cheaper than swordsmen. Ignores terrain cost.
UB: Tabernacle. Replaces shrine. +1 and +1 from every pasture worked by the city.

Sparta (symbol: Lambda)
Leader: Leonidas
UA: Helots: Units receive double XP from barbarians. Unit receives free promotion when razing a city. When a unit is stationed in a city, may sacrifice for XP.
UU: Phalanx (replaces spearman): Begins with shock. +10% vs ranged units.
UU: Spartan diplomat (replaces Great General): Same effect as great general, plus: When unit ends turn in a city state's territory, gain +5 . When unit ends turn next to an allied city-state's units, those units receive the same combat bonus as the player's units.

It's fine to suggest civs civs that have already been discussed. On the civilizations themselves, I'd really like Sparta anyway, but how would the promotion on razing a city work? For the Hebrews, the problem is that they are slightly underpowered. The UA allow them to get the upper hand early in a war, the UU is pretty good, but the UB doesn't tie in with anything else in the civ. I'd suggest to give them a more prominent religious focus, and that should be fine.

 

[Viregel]

Armenia

Capital: Yerevan
Leader: Tigranes II
UA: Bastion of the Faith. If Armenia founds a religion, for as long as that religion remains dominant buildings producing faith give +2 and add a point of religious pressure each. When choosing a reformation belief, you can instead choose an additional follower belief.
Ayrudzi: Replaces horseman. When producing an Ayrudzi, gold produced by the city counts as production. Higher maintenance cost and a 20% combat boost near the capital.
Khachkar: Unique Art/Artifact. When a Great Artist produces a Great Work or an archaeologist produces an artifact, there's a 50% chance of it being a Khachkar. A Khachkar yields +2 and doubles the effects of the temple that's in it's city. (Doesn't stack.)

First off, they seem too similar to Byzantium. As they seem intent on founding a religion, they can be quite bad if they don't get the chance. The Khachar is very out of the box, and I like it. As for the Ayrudzi, the city can get some out quite quickly, but they do depend a lot on gold. I'd suggest toning down the religious focus, and replace it with something else.

 

[phaethon16]

Going off what people said, here's my revision.

UA: Bastion of the Faith. So long as the first dominant religion in Armenia stays dominant, religious buildings give +2 and add a point of religious pressure each. So long as Armenia retains control over its original capital, the capital has a 25% boost to Great Person production.
UU: Ayrudzi. Replaces horseman. When producing an Ayrudzi, gold produced by the city counts as production. No maintenance cost when within two tiles of the capital, ignores zone of control when within friendly territory.
Unique Art/Artifact. When a Great Artist produces a Great Work or an archaeologist produces an artifact, there's a 50% chance of it being a Khachkar. A Khachkar yields +2 and doubles the effects of the temple that's in it's city. (Doesn't stack.)

I modified the UA a bit to make them less religious per se and more defensive. The UU I changed lightly to make it less dependent on gold, and the Khachkar I didn't change because if you make it only an artifact, then they can't be produced until the industrial era.

 

[Camikaze]

On the Australian idea, I would regard the 'obvious' choices as being Deakin or Curtin, with Menzies being perhaps a bit too controversial.

 

[TPangolin]

I gotta agree with Awesome, it doesn't seem great to me either. The UA is just like an edited Morocco, so gameplay with the 2 of them will be very, very similar but it has the 'workers found cities' gimmick thrown in that doesn't seem like it would enhance gameplay other than just training a worker instead of a settler, which doesn't stop growth so just ends up OP, puppet or no (which is too much like Venice anyway)

The Diggers are just the Aztec UA/Brazil UU, really quite uninteresting and not very representative of these guys or Australia as a whole

The Hostel is actually not bad, though might end up being really OP, besides, I don't actually think it fits with Australia, while it has had some tremendous accomplishments as a nation, Australia lacks its own culture, so having all the 3 elements of this geared towards a cultural victory is like having a modern swiss civ geared towards domination victory. Perhaps some less focused advantages for a nation that hasn't quite found its place on the world stage yet.

Great feedback here. I have to agree on many points but regarding the "worker gimmick" , I'd like to keep that aspect. Certainly taking a lot of things that you have said into consideration - but founding puppeted cities is certainly something I'd want to keep (settler or worker). One could also use the argument that the lack of culture is non existent seeing as the Australian way of life is essentially a mixture of just about everything. In modern day Australia 40% of people have parent that were born over seas. It is also pretty much considered un-Australian if fully grown white male be him rural or not have the inability to use a pair of chopsticks.

I'm struggling to find a great idea for a Digger UA. I am primarily making this civ idea with modding in mind - so that is partially the reason it seems so underwhelming.

On the Australian idea, I would regard the 'obvious' choices as being Deakin or Curtin, with Menzies being perhaps a bit too controversial.

Deakin is an interesting leaderhead, but far less iconic than Menzies or Parkes - he was an advocate for federation and unlike Parkes he was a Prime Minister. The reason I tend to lean towards Parkes in this case is partly due to his beard - which is something iconic in itself, and him being the Father of Federation. I'll certainly give Deakin a thought though.

Menzies' achievements can be described as psuedo-limited, I agree - but by jove if he isn't iconic. Curtin is also considered the greatest of all time for Australia, but I feel his visual aesthetic doesn't exactly suit Australia in a game of fierce and mighty leaders - same goes for Chifley. It is for this reason that Parkes and Menzies look the part of somebody to be feared and respected if you came across them.

============

In regards to both the leader and the UA,UU,UB would love to hear some feedback and concepts of how we can capture the unique essence of Australia without it being reduced to a gimmick.