Communication w/ other civs not before Library

[xo303]

Quick thing that just popped into my mind; how can one civilization comunicate with another before the discovery of Writing? Sure you can learn a language without beeing able to write by just oral communication, but come on. A civ should at least have one library in one city to communicate correctly. My suggestion for future Civs, maybe already Civ IV is, that once you build a library, you get along one free unit, let's call them Translator. If this unit comes across another civ, they can communicate properly, just like now. If any other unit, eg a warrior does the same, they can't. That means if my german warrior meets the french, the diplomatic screen will pop up, and we could only guess what they want. So you could accidentially declare war. Could be something like that:

- german warrior meets french warrior
- diplomatic advisor pop up:
"Sir, an unknown tribe tries to comunicate with us. It may be the [insert civ here] - what shall we do?"
(O) We cannot communicate with them - let's continue our quest
(O) Try to communicate with them

- if second option is clicked, you will get a screen showing the enemies leaders face giving you options to reply to. And you would have no idea what they are. Could be displayed in the opposite civ's RL language, or just in weird wording, like:

(O) waablablamamamamawabla.
(O) huar huar!
(O) narfnarfnarf? ho!


Could make the initial phase of the game even more interesting. Enemy borders could be displayed in grey color and city names simply City1, City2, etc, so that you don't know from the border color or city name which civ you are dealing with already. Not until you choose to communicate you see the leaderhead gaphic and know who that guy/gal is. Once you met all civs, libraries will not produce Translators anymore, but simply one more scientific output. Or, only the very first library will produce one and you have to use him to explore your continent. Makes archipelago maps very challenging. Anyway libraries come very early in the game so it wouldn't drag throughout the whole game as you can also get contact with yet unknown civs by contacting a known civ; it would be a small part of the beginning game but could lead to a terrible outcome if you dare communicating and guessing your answer to the enemies proposals.

A. I like xo303's idea of Translators and also have a further idea/suggestion
B. Please firaxis, track xo303 down and throw him off a cliff - NOW!

OK I stop here, reached my "crap posts of the day limit" already

 

[ybbor]

good idea, but how abolut in addition make a great wonmder that either produces a translator evry x turns, or you cam isnatantly communicate with all civs you meet. another option would be to have a small wonder that would do that, so each ciov has to understand it

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

I would also like to see an option where you could hang the translator in cituations like:
A SoD of 30 German Warriors crosses into your territory after a short communication and the translator pops up with the line: "Sire methinks that <ficke ihre mutter> does not mean=we desire your eternal friendship"

 

[Commander Bello]

May I check both options, 'A' AND 'B'?

Well, the idea is not so bad but on the other hand not all communication was done via written documents.

Additionally, what happens if you would loose your translator three times in a row, let's say due to Barbs in the other nation's territory? This could almost kill your game... or you give him some combat values, but then there is the problem for the AI to determine whether they kick him out or not. If they don't do it, he could be used for sacking a unprotected city.... that would be quite exploitative (normally I don't like this term, but here it fits, as I see it)

 

[socralynnek]

Maybe A and B?

Somehow you're right, maybe contact shouldn't be possible too early, but OTOH I think the "translator" would have to come a little earlier, because Civ is about dealing with other Civs and the way it is designed now, relies on some early tech trading.

But how about that: You can only talk to Civs in your culture group in the beginning (similar languages) and to other groups you can only talk later...

 

[Pook]

Sorry, I don't like the concept at all. I think this idea gets too far into micromanagement. Your civilization has thousands of people in it- SOMEBODY is going to be able to speak with the foreigners. There will be some distrust of people who speak a different language, but that's already reflected in the game.
We call someone who speaks three languages trilingual.
We call someone who speaks two languages bilingual.
We call someone who speaks one language an American.
Even in my own country which doesn't put much emphasis on learning other languages, we would still find a way to communicate.

 

[ybbor]

But how about that: You can only talk to Civs in your culture group in the beginning (similar languages) and to other groups you can only talk later...

ohhhhhhhhh, i like that idea!

 

[xo303]

@Commander Bello
Welcome to check both options You are right about the combat values - I completely forgot about the Barbarian issue. In case he gets no attack/defense stats, he should always travel along with eg a warrior. On contact, the AI could automatically determine the Translator and go from there.

@Garbarsardar.jr
Ficke Ihre Mutter indead does not mean eternal friendship

@socralynek
Excellent idea concerning the culture groups, that would make sense! I recently started a new game as Chinese, my neighbours are Korea and Japan, so that would be a perfect layout for your case.

@pook
Actually it wouldn't be that much micromanagement at all. Let's say you play Archipelago with a lot of water. You probably won't meet another Civ before you have built your first Library. On Pangea maps it's surely easier to meet people, but again, the risk to lose is very low because you can either avoid talking to them if you don't have a Translator yet, and Libraries will come sonner or later anyway.