Hearts of IOT IV

[Thorvald of Lym]

It is truth universally acknowledged, that a single Thorvald in possession of a mutable game, must be in want of a mod.​

In a chat session yesterday I mused an IOT-inspired mod for Hearts of Iron IV, and in classic fashion next thing I knew I was swamped with suggestions, mostly revolving around a game based on Imperium Offtopicum XIV (wink wink nudge nudge it was Megs). I can't say I have much experience with Paradox titles full stop, let alone modding them, but if there's anything I have in surplus it's ideas, and given that only a few days' digging has given me a reasonably solid grasp about how all the various files coalesce, I can at least try to piece together a preliminary framework upon which others can build.

Because any conversation that occurs on chat is liable to be lost in the fog of memory, I've opened this thread to consolidate the development process and outsource contract seek help with the technical design itself. Key objectives are:

• Adequate representation of an Imperium Offtopicum setting at the geostrategic level;
• Individualized National Focus trees for all notable player countries;
• Inclusion of historical events to match keystone moments within the game.

Regardless of whether this does stick with the IOT-XIV universe, these are my three immediate concerns re. functional design:

1. Most IOT games begin on a blank map, and while I can designate ownerless territories, units can't interact with them. My current approach is to dump all empty land into a dummy country and use National Focuses to annex states as per the game's history; if anyone knows an alternate scheme, please share.
2. What, and how many, base political factions should there be? Typical IOTs certainly use more than the original four, and while I mused importing the set from the Millennium Dawn mod, I'd condense most of the democratic subfactions into one umbrella ideology.
3. How to handle alliances. Within XIV at least, people were making and breaking pacts every couple weeks, and when you add in projects like UNVIFOR the whole scheme develops a rank-order that can't be easily replicated within the base engine. Millennium Dawn has a compromise in the form of National Spirits used for scripted triggers; the question becomes what to use where.

And that's all I've got at the moment. See you in a month when I've worked up the confidence to actually move beyond cosmetic changes.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Though I confess to not process HoI4 I am intrigued.

I will be eager to witness this construction cometh into being.

 

[Omega124]

(wink wink nudge nudge it was Megs).

Oh, shucks

• Adequate representation of an Imperium Offtopicum setting at the geostrategic level;
• Individualized National Focus trees for all notable player countries;
• Inclusion of historical events to match keystone moments within the game.

Which is why I think XIV would work great for this. There is a lot of material for geostrateic politics, interesting NFs including all the weird black ops that went in the background (can anyone say rosemary incident!), and you could easily do events based on the silly horsehocky robbie threw in the updates, along with the RP.

Most IOT games begin on a blank map, and while I can designate ownerless territories, units can't interact with them. My current approach is to dump all empty land into a dummy country and use National Focuses to annex states as per the game's history; if anyone knows an alternate scheme, please share.

Personally, I am more of a fan of "just have nations the size of what they were at the height of (peaceful) expansion". For areas that were NEVER colonized (which I can't think of any off the top of my head), then we can make generic NPCs. I would not include classic expanding as a mechanic in this game; the classic IOT expansion is more of a gameplay mechanic to facilitate player participation every turn than something intrinsic to the XIV universe, and in fact it would just be needless complexity that hurts gameplay while having no thematic benefit in HOI,

What, and how many, base political factions should there be? Typical IOTs certainly use more than the original four, and while I mused importing the set from the Millennium Dawn mod, I'd condense most of the democratic subfactions into one umbrella ideology.

My idea on chat, was to have four main ideologies

Democracy
Communism (which wouldn't really be a thing outside of the USSR)
Feminism (representing the ideology of the so-called Fourth Wave Feminism of France*, UK, Indonesia, etc. Be similar to Fascism mechanically, except also having elections like a Democracy.)
Autocracy (Would be like vanilla's non-aligned, except less of a default ideology and more of one in its own right)

*Honestly, in this scenario, I would make Yvette's National Party the democratic party and Jeanette's Venus Party the feminist, with an event/NF later in the game after the destruction of the Elysee Palace and Jeannette's coup, to decide whether or not the courts side with Yvette or Jeanette.

How to handle alliances. Within XIV at least, people were making and breaking pacts every couple weeks, and when you add in projects like UNVIFOR the whole scheme develops a rank-order that can't be easily replicated within the base engine. Millennium Dawn has a compromise in the form of National Spirits used for scripted triggers; the question becomes what to use where.

UNVIFOR should be UAR's faction (The only other nation that should start with a faction is France IMO, although maybe Japan should in to account for a timeline where it wins). Over the course of the game, certain nations can ask to join it, like France can ask to join factions in vanilla. However, if the war against Japan goes badly, certain nations might drop out of the faction and white peace with Japan. If Japan is defeated, UNIVIFOR could either disband, or perhaps the faction gets renamed to something less specific.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

you could easily do events based on the silly **** robbie threw in the updates, along with the RP.

Which reminds me, I'll need that comet picture...

Democracy
Communism (which wouldn't really be a thing outside of the USSR)
Feminism (representing the ideology of the so-called Fourth Wave Feminism of France*, UK, Indonesia, etc. Be similar to Fascism mechanically, except also having elections like a Democracy.)
Autocracy (Would be like vanilla's non-aligned, except less of a default ideology and more of one in its own right)

Could probably extend Communism to China and Ailed's mid-game Greek rebels, since the Militia under Almasi sounded like Trotskyists. I was musing back and forth whether the monarchists (Austria, post-coup Prussia and Indo-Persia) should get an ideology in their own right, with Autocracy reserved for modern-style (non-fascist) dictatorships/oligarchies, i.e. Malta and the American states.

Honestly, in this scenario, I would make Yvette's National Party the democratic party and Jeanette's Venus Party the feminist, with an event/NF later in the game after the destruction of the Elysee Palace and Jeannette's coup, to decide whether or not the courts side with Yvette or Jeanette.

Deciding on how to handle Feminism gave me pause. As it so happens my first edits revolve around France, and I'd been wondering whether to lump all the leaders under the one ideology or make the 'Feminist' bloc à la Hiver expressly extremist, with the other parties simply given appropriate flavour.

UNVIFOR should be UAR's faction (The only other nation that should start with a faction is France IMO, although maybe Japan should in to account for a timeline where it wins). Over the course of the game, certain nations can ask to join it, like France can ask to join factions in vanilla. However, if the war against Japan goes badly, certain nations might drop out of the faction and white peace with Japan. If Japan is defeated, UNIVIFOR could either disband, or perhaps the faction gets renamed to something less specific.

On that note, I'm trying to figure out how the Vietnam War would actually occur. I don't think it would work as a civil war, and I'm not sure how to properly map out the pre-war divisions of the country. I suppose I could always break it up into factional warlords to be beaten individually, though then the question becomes how to release it as a consolidated state afterwards.

 

[Ailedhoo]

The Peoples Militia under my rebellion were essentially militant democratic socialists, so perhaps a link between communism and democracy...

For the Platonic Republic: what will the focuses be? I hope Xylon Toto get some good leaderships skills... and a terrible defence against spies.

 

[JamesCaesar]

When will the IOT come out where we play as various IOT mods

 

[Omega124]

Which reminds me, I'll need that comet picture...

Could probably extend Communism to China and Ailed's mid-game Greek rebels, since the Militia under Almasy sounded like Trotskyists. I was musing back and forth whether the monarchists (Austria, post-coup Prussia and Indo-Persia) should get an ideology in their own right, with Autocracy reserved for modern-style (non-fascist) dictatorships/oligarchies, i.e. Malta and the American states.

That makes sense, actually, on both counts.

HRE should totally then be Austria's faction, and after couping Prussia and getting all the minors to join, there should be an event where all German tags get annexed and there is a cosmetic tag switch to the HRE proper.

Deciding on how to handle Feminism gave me pause. As it so happens my first edits revolve around France, and I'd been wondering whether to lump all the leaders under the one ideology or make the 'Feminist' bloc à la Hiver expressly extremist, with the other parties simply given appropriate flavour.

Make France Pink Again!

Only reason I suggest making Yvette the Democratic leader is because A: she was never a warmongering nutjob like Hiver was and B: so I dont have to create new French leaders when I feasibly dont have to

On that note, I'm trying to figure out how the Vietnam War would actually occur. I don't think it would work as a civil war, and I'm not sure how to properly map out the pre-war divisions of the country. I suppose I could always break it up into factional warlords to be beaten individually, though then the question becomes how to release it as a consolidated state afterwards.

I don't see why it wouldnt work as a civil war? Just have it so that Japan joins Hanoi's side of the war via event and UAR on the anti-Japanese side. From there, normal faction mechanics should kick in

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

When will the IOT come out where we play as various IOT mods

Probably once I can mod Freeciv all the ways I want to.

HRE should totally then be Austria's faction, and after couping Prussia and getting all the minors to join, there should be an event where all German tags get annexed and there is a cosmetic tag switch to the HRE proper.

Ah, so stuph can be retextured on the fly? I'd been trying to figure out the feasibility of things like GEAR and the PAU...

Make France Pink Again!

Only reason I suggest making Yvette the Democratic leader is because A: she was never a warmongering nutjob like Hiver was and B: so I dont have to create new French leaders when I feasibly dont have to

********sm it is!

I don't see why it wouldnt work as a civil war? Just have it so that Japan joins Hanoi's side of the war via event and UAR on the anti-Japanese side. From there, normal faction mechanics should kick in

I suppose, I just need to figure out how the game references sides during a civil war. I was getting hung up on the particulars of how the whole thing unravelled, but there wasn't a serious break between drawing the lines and Japan's invasion, was there?

By the by, d'you know off-hand if it's possible to script troop deployments? The biggest problem I'm looking at is getting the expedition to 'Nam in time to actually effect a defence.
also Devil-Fish

For the Platonic Republic: what will the focuses be? I hope Xylon Toto get some good leaderships skills... and a terrible defence against spies.

Don't you fret, son, we have big plans for you and Math...

 

[Omega124]

Ah, so stuph can be retextured on the fly? I'd been trying to figure out the feasibility of things like GEAR and the PAU...

Yeah. Cosmetic tags allow you to change a nation's flag and name without actually changing any of the game's internal logic (since actually changing tags can cause wonky things like losing your entire OOB and all your research). It's pretty damn nifty if I can say so myself.

********sm it is!

We must secure the existence of our people and a future for female children.

I suppose, I just need to figure out how the game references sides during a civil war. I was getting hung up on the particulars of how the whole thing unravelled, but there wasn't a serious break between drawing the lines and Japan's invasion, was there?

Not to my knowledge, no.

By the by, d'you know off-hand if it's possible to script troop deployments? The biggest problem I'm looking at is getting the expedition to 'Nam in time to actually effect a defence.
also Devil-Fish

Yes, you can script the creation of new divisions wherever the hell you damn please. Some mods add free troops for Germany in and against Norway, for instance, to speed up its conquest.

Don't you fret, son, we have big plans for you and Math...

God, imagine uploading this mod on pdox. I bet you 95% of the people there would only play it to be Rome. Imagine their frustration of being doomed to failure due to the legacy of Math.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Bonus points if events between the Platonic Republic and Rome guarantee a war between them more so then Operation Devil-Fish.

Trust me: looking back I should have played my cards "a bit" better.

 

[JamesCaesar]

Probably once I can mod Freeciv all the ways I want to.

http://play.freeciv.org/blog/2015/04/the-battle-of-100-freeciv-ais/ If this is possible anything is

 

[JohannaK]

Malay Republic represent!

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

God, imagine uploading this mod on pdox. I bet you 95% of the people there would only play it to be Rome. Imagine their frustration of being doomed to failure due to the legacy of Math.

brb, adding "the Romans —ing sucked" to the startup quotes

 

[Ailedhoo]

Also have the Platonic Republic for PBox to go "oh classical Greek power based on Plato's Republic?" and find they are playing the road to Hell.

 

[christos200]

Seems interesting idea for mod. Hopefully this time Japan will kick the UN's ass.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Hopefully this time Japan will kick the UN's ass.

Sometimes I think christos lies in bed at night playing with voodoo dolls of everyone that's ever bested him.

 

[Omega124]

I heard you made some tangible progress in re to NIs. Any pictures? :3

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

It's all as-inspiration-strikes at the moment and I haven't even looked into scripting effects, but here're the highlights thus far:

Spoiler :

Don't look at me; it was literally 'Lec's idea.



I have no clue why, but I really clicked with TB's faction:

Spoiler :

But yeah, I'm having way too much fun with these.

 

[christos200]

It looks great.

 

[Omega124]

Do note Operation Scorpion took a *long* time to actually happen; it was near the end of the game.

Honestly, the Monaco collapse should be an event that happens in whatever year it happened in-game, which causes Monaco to, well, collaspe. AI will always have this peacefully, but a player Monaco has the option to turn it into a civil war. The collaspe should then send a flag which, with enough feminist support in France, allow that focus to be taken.