ISDG 2012 - Server Announcements, Connection Issues and Questions

[Caledorn]

Yet another server freezeup occured yesterday evening. I have left the game down overnight, because I have run some hardware diagnostics (which all checked out green, so the problem 99% certainly software related).

What I have done now, is that I have created a VMWare virtual machine that the games run inside, so if the freezes is related to anything in the Pitboss hosting, the VM should be freezing now and not the server (unless of course the freezes are related to unclosed network sockets, which seemed to be the most plausible explanation as they occured after a specific player played his turns and he plays windowed mode and just clicked the X in the upper right corner instead of Exitting to Main Menu - given that the VM is running on the same Network Interface as the Server it can plausibly freeze up the server, but I believe that the advanced VMWare Network Interface driver inside the VM should prevent it).

The game handily flipped turn a little while before the freeze happened though, so I have reloaded the game from the turn flip autosave, which means nothing should have been lost at all in this game.

 

[2metraninja]

Thanks for all your efforts and time you put in to hosting for us Cal. If you pass by nearby in Eastern Europe, just give me a sign, I think you will be charmed by our hospitality.

 

[Caledorn]

Thanks for all your efforts and time you put in to hosting for us Cal. If you pass by nearby in Eastern Europe, just give me a sign, I think you will be charmed by our hospitality.

And likewise to you should you ever want to visit Norway!

 

[Hercules90]

The game seems paused without explanation?

 

[OT4E]

Seems like that, sorry. I will try to find out what's going on.

 

[Hercules90]

Seems like that, sorry. I will try to find out what's going on.

Any update? There is an element of frustration building with this delay.

 

[Caledorn]

Incidents like these are completely game-killing, guys. Today is October 8th. The last login to the game was September 30th. That's way way more than what the teams have agreed upon. Furthermore there has been absolutely no explanation of what is going on, except an apology 4 days ago.

I am again pointing out the option of finding some manner to call this game among yourselves, if you are not able to maintain enough interest in the game to actually play your turns within the turn timer (which is very generous as is, given the turn splits offer each team nearly 2 entire days to play their turn). If incidents like this continues to happen - turn players not playing their turns, and no courtesy for the other players with at least posting an explanation in this thread, I will have to start doing what I have avoided for a long time now: Enforce turns within the allotted time given, set by the turn timer, without any pauses unless in cases of emergencies.

I really dislike having to wave the admin flag around here, but seriously, playing *one* turn should NOT take over one week for *one* team.

 

[mzprox]

I have to agree. from now on pauses should be announced and should not be taken for weeks, 48h tops I think, and even that should be for good reason, holiday etc.

 

[OT4E]

The problem is that I cant make turn myself. I really apologize for this, but this week I am just too busy in RL.

BUT havent we decided to finish game without playing it on? I am not fan of such endings but I dont see how we can speed up right now considering that my team depends on bemep's availability and UCIV is not showing at all. So saying it is just my team's issue is not completely correct. If we are going to draw it but play some turns on for fun then I dont understand this hurry. I havent heard any objections against draw yet but in general we agree on any result suiting other teams if it helps us to stop bringing extra inconvenience for others.

 

[Hercules90]

Incidents like these are completely game-killing, guys. Today is October 8th. The last login to the game was September 30th. That's way way more than what the teams have agreed upon. Furthermore there has been absolutely no explanation of what is going on, except an apology 4 days ago.

I am again pointing out the option of finding some manner to call this game among yourselves, if you are not able to maintain enough interest in the game to actually play your turns within the turn timer (which is very generous as is, given the turn splits offer each team nearly 2 entire days to play their turn). If incidents like this continues to happen - turn players not playing their turns, and no courtesy for the other players with at least posting an explanation in this thread, I will have to start doing what I have avoided for a long time now: Enforce turns within the allotted time given, set by the turn timer, without any pauses unless in cases of emergencies.

I really dislike having to wave the admin flag around here, but seriously, playing *one* turn should NOT take over one week for *one* team.

Personally I agree.

 

[OzzyKP]

It doesn't sound like the draw has been agreed to. As far as we can tell it looks like there are a few teams who agree to a three-way draw, but not to a five-way draw. Other teams agree to a five-way draw, but not to a three-way.

Frankly if it were up to me we'd play on (or do the 25 more turns option), but with NO pauses except for agreed upon breaks for holidays and such and pauses announced well in advance. If a team can't play their turn in a reasonable window then tough , you miss your turn. If that ruins your big plans for the game, then so be it. These endless pauses are inconsiderate and disrespectful to the other people in this game and destroying this game.

This is a democracy game. This is a game of different civ communities against each other. Measuring the strength of these communities isn't just about how good the best person from each community is, it is about the strength of that community overall. If some teams in this game are down to only one person who can only play once or twice a month, well that is a sign of a weak community and that team should suffer consequences from it no different than the consequences a weak micromanager would face or a weak battlefield general.

If no one from your team can play your turn, then you don't get a turn. Period. If that causes your team to be conquered, then so be it. That sounds quite fair to me. Especially with everything that has happened over the last few months/years.

I say this as someone who has never played a turn in this game. As someone who hasn't even logged into the game in well over a year. Mzprox has done an amazing job in this game and I am ridiculously proud of everything he has accomplished. But if he couldn't handle the turns any more I'm sure he'd let us know. I'd be more than happy to step in. Hercules too could step in. We actually just gained a new recruit on the team who could probably step in as well. None of us would be as good as Mzprox, but we are here if needed. That is part of having a strong team (not to say that the rest of us have contributed more than a tiny fraction of what Mz has, but we at least haven't disappeared).

If other teams can't say the same, then that should be to their detriment. We can't punish every other team in the game because a few teams are too weak, disorganized or uncommitted to play their turns.

I know I'm going to sound like a jerk, and I wrote this without consultation with Mz, so don't take it out on him or Team Apolyton, but this situation is absolutely out of hand and ridiculous. The irresponsible behavior of a few teams are taking their toll on the responsible ones. And if I'm totally off base in my assumptions and if all the teams (Apolyton included) have held the game up for long stretches then I deeply apologize, I was unaware. Please just dismiss me as ignorant and talk amongst yourselves. But if I'm right, if there are a few teams that have mucked this game up, then they should face consequences for that (and I say this without knowing which teams in particular this might be and whether they are our allies or enemies).

No login since September 30? There is absolutely no excuse for that. Period.

If someone wants to request a pause ahead of time I doubt anyone would object. But the pause can't be indefinite. I think all the turn players would feel a lot better about this game (even if it is just for another 25 turns) if we stopped pausing. Who's with me?

 

[Caledorn]

The problem is that I cant make turn myself. I really apologize for this, but this week I am just too busy in RL.

BUT havent we decided to finish game without playing it on? I am not fan of such endings but I dont see how we can speed up right now considering that my team depends on bemep's availability and UCIV is not showing at all. So saying it is just my team's issue is not completely correct. If we are going to draw it but play some turns on for fun then I dont understand this hurry. I havent heard any objections against draw yet but in general we agree on any result suiting other teams if it helps us to stop bringing extra inconvenience for others.

The problem is of course not only your team. Once it was CivFR, but that was resolved by a rather heavy-handed intervention by me. We have also had recent trouble with UCiv, which is included in my consideration. But currently the game has been held up for more than one entire week without any explanation from your team.

My personal preference would be that the game is played out, and that seems to be the opinion that has a majority preference. A draw can only be accepted if all teams agree to the terms, and I haven't seen any consensus that everyone can agree to, so for now that isn't an option.

Which leaves the following alternatives, which I see no other option than to start enforcing in one way or another very soon as all these stalls are not acceptable and killing the game.

* No pauses, unless an emergency occurs (this means "I don't have time this week to play" will be an unacceptable reason for pause, and that all teams will either need to recruit more team members, ask for subs, or actually lose turns).
* Any request for a pause must be done in this thread, so that all teams are aware of them, and the reason for the pause. If a pause is short, like "I need a pause for 2 hours", it should mostly be okay unless it happens every turn - but longer pauses will not be accepted unless the reason is serious. Pausing the game without stating so in this thread will be considered breaking the rules under these conditions, and may or may not incur penalties decided by me depending on the length of the pause and the seriousness of impact on the game.
* Teams that are unable to do their turns, or who simply do not show up, will be forcefully replaced by one or more sub player(s), and lose their right to take back their team (obviously this is a last resort, and I will be generous in offering a grace time to the teams that would need to recruit new members or find subs to assist after these rules go into effect).

I know this is heavy handed from me, and I am quite certain that I am stepping on someone's toes with this, but I cannot please everyone. My primary concern as the game admin and host must be the flow of the game, as is expected by all participating teams, and as such I really do not think it would be fair if I prioritise the players that can't find the time or interest to fulfill what they signed up for when joining this game over those players who actively seek to play the game and wants to see who is the best team.

I am giving all teams the opportunity to give feedback on these rules, as they are definitely open for discussion - as long as the arguments offered don't seek to continue a situation where we have unannounced pauses, turns that take 3-4 days (or even more) to complete for a single team and so forth.

However, I intend to put these rules (or a modified version of them depending on any suggestions made) into effect from Friday, October 17th.

 

[zioun]

I'm stuck on diploscreen again because of pause...

I'm becoming very annoyed by this game guys...this has no sense. I think I will give up and try to find someone in my team to replace me...

 

[2metraninja]

Only CP can unpause at this moment.

 

[2metraninja]

I had asked Ot4e to unpause for you right now.

 

[OT4E]

This is a democracy game. This is a game of different civ communities against each other. Measuring the strength of these communities isn't just about how good the best person from each community is, it is about the strength of that community overall.

You take it too serious. Nobody objects that your community is stronger. My community is dead from the view of PBs if you want to know.

It doesn't sound like the draw has been agreed to. As far as we can tell it looks like there are a few teams who agree to a three-way draw, but not to a five-way draw. Other teams agree to a five-way draw, but not to a three-way

It is not true. Most of teams agreed on DRAW (we, your team, CFC). Is it 5-sided draw of 3-sided draw makes no sense. We of course agree on whatever kind of draw, since we are not able to continue playing at acceptable rate. My proposal of 5-sided was an act of good will. Your captain said that it doesnt make much difference.

The true question is are we going to continue playing or stop and summarize? As I understood Caledorn he is not going to tolerate such a slow game, so I am just looking for a way to finish it in acceptable way for everyone. Your team can speed up which shows much better readiness of your community than ours. I said that I cant make it go much faster from our side. I have only one guy from Donetsk with poor english as a companion. If you insist to continue it I am ok to have my team subbed and even ready to give all kind of theoretical help for any person willing to take control. What else can I propose? I can start making turns myself and guarantee to make 1 turn per week, may be slightly more often.

If it is just a matter of result I have proposed imho a fair one where your team recieves 1st place. Returning to communities strength we agree to be 3th, 4th or 5th, whatever other teams want. For me it is satisfying result of challenging the whole communities.

 

[vranasm]

I think mine team (CFC) strongly opposed CivFR being included as a 'winner' of this game, due to some heavyhanded straws between our teams.

I can't speak for our main diplomat on this, but i think 3-way tie would be good enough result for us.

 

[Caledorn]

A draw would only work if all teams agree to the terms of the draw. That includes CivFR and UCiv, even if they may not be among the current candidate for winning the game.

As for how to get the game going faster, I appreciate that you are taking the initiative to look for a replacement within your community, zioun. As for your trouble being that your community is so small, OT4E, perhaps we can ask someone over at RB if they would be interested in helping out as turn player if you think you cannot play more than one turn per week?

 

[2metraninja]

Please, have in mind we still need Team Uciv to play their turn. I think we all will prefer if no team misses turns at this stage.

 

[2metraninja]

And for getting the game faster in technical terms, I think a shift in the turn windows is in order. I.e. - to reduce the timer to 2 windows split, instead of what is now 4.