New Beta Version - August 16th (8/16)
- Thread starter Gazebo
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I noticed increased aggressiveness of AI in a weird way. I'm in "war" with several AIs on the other side of the world. The last ridiculous war is with Assyria, who declared on me next turn after meeting me for the first time.
Maybe the AI needs to compensate increased aggressiveness by reducing aggression to civs that are far away ? It may hurt them if they will be in too many fake wars.
Maybe the AI needs to compensate increased aggressiveness by reducing aggression to civs that are far away ? It may hurt them if they will be in too many fake wars.
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ShadedSkies
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2014
- Messages
- 87
Well no wonder the AI is underperforming... Ramesses didn't even settle his capital.
Spoiler :
Looks like I messed up somewhere in LuaPlayer or there was a merge error. I'll look at this today.
I suspect they're being bribed.
Yeah usually it's that way, but would the increased aggressiveness of this version increase their willingness to DoW when bribed also ?
I'll investigate...
It's weird cause my observation is the complete opposite. The AI seem to have been hit with the stupid stick as far as aggression is concerned. In my first "stability test" game I (as the Shoshone with Progress) managed to take the Assyrian capital with 4 archers and a scout (deity, epic speed). He had warriors, lots of them. But they just all ran away to do something else, not sure what. One of them came back and I killed him but the others I have no idea where they went or what they did -- I think he went authority (I dont have the game up as I write this, so I guess they all could have decided to go barbarian hunting or to bully citystates, it just seemed like a somewhat weird priority). It was a bit of a pain to have to wait to build a courthouse tho since that was quite a long way away. So it eventually led to a lot of rebellions and happiness issues.
There was another weird game where one of the AI all of a sudden had a horseman despite not having any horses, I guess he must have bought a horse from someone or been allied to a city-state that had a horse but I just couldn't find the other AI with a horse improved (i even looked at city tiles). But that just happened once so I guess he got it from somewhere I just couldn't figure out where. It was very odd cause there was very few improvements going on and nobody had more then 8 techs.
As far as which policy tree the AI goes down it seems to be a sharp preference for Authority, Tradition second and have not even seen an AI pick Progress yet.
That said the patch seems stable, I have not had any crashes or anything of the sort.
(Edit, cant find a good save for the Shoshone/Assyria game. I didn't really save a lot cause I mostly just wanted to test the stability of it all so I didn't have a save pre-capture. But from what I can tell it happened on turn 153 (they still have the unhappy face icon, viva revolution, every citizen and that turn number in the tooltip) in the classical era. Best I could find was an autosave 20 turns afterwards where I'm still like 40 turns away from philosophy)
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Tactical AI issues are ilteroi's domain, I specifically deal with the diplomacy side of things.
A reminder to post all these bugs and issues on Github, if posted here we can't do much about them.
A reminder to post all these bugs and issues on Github, if posted here we can't do much about them.
Same here. 12-civ game, none of them went progress.
Hard to know if they are bugs tho or if it was just a one-time weird observation of things. If I am the only one that managed or experienced this then it would seem to be more of a one-time thing that just happened to take place as the stars aligned or something and nothing beyond that. If other people post that they are experiencing the same then sure it might be a bug.
tu_79
Deity
Are you playing with the Terra option that puts all civs in the same starting continent? In my game, 2 out of 4 civs so far have gone Progress.
I think I just used the new communitas map and didn't change any map specific settings, so whatever those default values are is what I picked.
Okay, this is really weird. First Germany, and now Ethiopia have become vassals of Byzantium. Without being at war. Byzantium is the second strongest power, while I'm the strongest. But Germany has been hovering between 3rd and 4th, and Ethiopia is 5th. Of 8 civs, until Byzantium ended Mongolia. And it is a close-packed ranking, in terms of tech and policies.
Also in this game, Ethiopia failed to found with Goddess of the Home. And were in a perfect God of the Sea start. They had 6 sea resource tiles within the range of just their capital, and all their other cities were coastal with sea resources, but Mongolia managed to found with the recently nerfed Ancestor Worship. And Greece managed with Tutulary Gods (thought with Stonehenge).
Also in this game, Ethiopia failed to found with Goddess of the Home. And were in a perfect God of the Sea start. They had 6 sea resource tiles within the range of just their capital, and all their other cities were coastal with sea resources, but Mongolia managed to found with the recently nerfed Ancestor Worship. And Greece managed with Tutulary Gods (thought with Stonehenge).
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Deljade
Prince
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2019
- Messages
- 312
Running a game with the 8-16-2 hotfix. Huge, Epic, Emperor, Raging Barbs.
On AI being slow at the start;
I did not personally notice this. The AIs I've discovered so far have been building cities at the same rate as me, except Japan. The policies they picked seemed fair and matching the leader flavour -2 Trad, 2 Prog, 1 Auth-
I think that what could relate to that though is barb behaviour. They seem to me way more aggressive and, especially, way more keen on pillaging tiles this patch (could be because they take damage when they approach a city sometimes? not sure what's up) I would be surprised if the AI does not have trouble under these conditions, I've had myself, many tiles pillaged as well as playing tag with my workers and even lost a unit. The AI is also not escorting it's settlers, as far as I saw.
On founding for the human;
I played a civ with no faith bonus, got 5th Pantheon, picked a Pantheon with not too much immediate faith generation but sufficient later on, no faith ruins or religious city states and went Progress but focused hard on faith in buildings and events (mostly to test the religion race). Got 3rd religion and I'm pleased with that. I am fairly sure there would be games in the previous patch where I could not found under these conditions.
On Progress buffs and game plan;
My order was Liberty -> Organisation -> Fraternity -> Expertise -> Equality, in accordance to the timings that were presented to me. I finished the tree turn 188. I was successful in encroaching on Tradition Austria, had my 4th city down just before their own 4th Settler arrived. Started with Trapping, I used the time when my Capital was at 2-4 Pop to build the Pyramids before a Monument (turn ~15 mining Ruin otherwise I'd not do that) and built a Settler afterwards, also built Temple of Artemis which was great on that Capital and resumed Settler production. Forest Plantations give strong starts. Got Iron Working and Rushed for Parthenon. Had to build and buy a bunch of units in between to control the Barbs and deter Austria.
Me and the AIs all had about the same number of policies (I would be a bit behind without William's UA) and I was a few Techs behind but not too many. Had a problem with Unhappiness before picking Equality but it got fixed big times as I was preparing to settle 3 more cities (built from secondary cities this time)
On Events;
They happen way more consistently in this patch. I got set back on quite a few occasions such as Ice Age and Corruption. However the positive events, especially the Faith related ones, I think will make the Religion race and the early game in general more stable.
On Terrain;
I was using Tectonic but still got a few kinks from Communitas, therefore this should be discussed as it applies to all mapscripts. I would love it if the resources on Swamps were something other than Bananas, like Berries for example, they could be like a Plantation bonus resource but could also be left intact, especially with Marsh synergy like Windmills and Renewal. Seeing a Banana in a Temperate swamp, two tiles away from Tundra is a little silly. Horses on Desert next to fresh water? I actually haven't seen any yet but I know they can spawn from testing in World Editor. It would be nice if this was a bit more rare. Horses do live on semiarid deserts, as far as I know in many cases because of humans. Are we supposed to pretend they are Camels or maybe Llamas? I do like Stones on hills though.
Oh, as for the border expansion, it still feels slow for Progress, which I guess was the intention when it was reduced in the past, It was a little better as I did not have to spend such a massive amount of Gold on Tiles this time, but I still felt Pressed to build the Parthenon to maybe accelerate it a little.
I feel I can get ahead pretty soon, if I keep playing, might continue the game or not, was a bit bummed out by the absolute lack of swamps while the nearby continent has a ton. Still fun though.
On AI being slow at the start;
I did not personally notice this. The AIs I've discovered so far have been building cities at the same rate as me, except Japan. The policies they picked seemed fair and matching the leader flavour -2 Trad, 2 Prog, 1 Auth-
I think that what could relate to that though is barb behaviour. They seem to me way more aggressive and, especially, way more keen on pillaging tiles this patch (could be because they take damage when they approach a city sometimes? not sure what's up) I would be surprised if the AI does not have trouble under these conditions, I've had myself, many tiles pillaged as well as playing tag with my workers and even lost a unit. The AI is also not escorting it's settlers, as far as I saw.
On founding for the human;
I played a civ with no faith bonus, got 5th Pantheon, picked a Pantheon with not too much immediate faith generation but sufficient later on, no faith ruins or religious city states and went Progress but focused hard on faith in buildings and events (mostly to test the religion race). Got 3rd religion and I'm pleased with that. I am fairly sure there would be games in the previous patch where I could not found under these conditions.
On Progress buffs and game plan;
My order was Liberty -> Organisation -> Fraternity -> Expertise -> Equality, in accordance to the timings that were presented to me. I finished the tree turn 188. I was successful in encroaching on Tradition Austria, had my 4th city down just before their own 4th Settler arrived. Started with Trapping, I used the time when my Capital was at 2-4 Pop to build the Pyramids before a Monument (turn ~15 mining Ruin otherwise I'd not do that) and built a Settler afterwards, also built Temple of Artemis which was great on that Capital and resumed Settler production. Forest Plantations give strong starts. Got Iron Working and Rushed for Parthenon. Had to build and buy a bunch of units in between to control the Barbs and deter Austria.
Me and the AIs all had about the same number of policies (I would be a bit behind without William's UA) and I was a few Techs behind but not too many. Had a problem with Unhappiness before picking Equality but it got fixed big times as I was preparing to settle 3 more cities (built from secondary cities this time)
On Events;
They happen way more consistently in this patch. I got set back on quite a few occasions such as Ice Age and Corruption. However the positive events, especially the Faith related ones, I think will make the Religion race and the early game in general more stable.
On Terrain;
I was using Tectonic but still got a few kinks from Communitas, therefore this should be discussed as it applies to all mapscripts. I would love it if the resources on Swamps were something other than Bananas, like Berries for example, they could be like a Plantation bonus resource but could also be left intact, especially with Marsh synergy like Windmills and Renewal. Seeing a Banana in a Temperate swamp, two tiles away from Tundra is a little silly. Horses on Desert next to fresh water? I actually haven't seen any yet but I know they can spawn from testing in World Editor. It would be nice if this was a bit more rare. Horses do live on semiarid deserts, as far as I know in many cases because of humans. Are we supposed to pretend they are Camels or maybe Llamas? I do like Stones on hills though.
Oh, as for the border expansion, it still feels slow for Progress, which I guess was the intention when it was reduced in the past, It was a little better as I did not have to spend such a massive amount of Gold on Tiles this time, but I still felt Pressed to build the Parthenon to maybe accelerate it a little.
I feel I can get ahead pretty soon, if I keep playing, might continue the game or not, was a bit bummed out by the absolute lack of swamps while the nearby continent has a ton. Still fun though.
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I think there is something wrong, I managed to re-create (sort of) the same scenario again as above. This time with Persia and Indonesia. 3 archers and an immortal tank just takes out the capital while the Indonesian warriors are hanging out five tiles away from the capital just doing nothing. I had a scout on a hill just looking at them standing there. This time I used the new version of the the 3rd/4th component tho so that might be needed to load. Same things otherwise -- epic, deity etc
tranx
Civilized
I absolutely love this new version 
There are tons of new things and they all bring freshness and a new kind of excitement to the game. Sadly I don't have much time to play (and less even to read 7 pages of thread 
). I have started a game as Tradition Japan, making the jump from Prince to King. I am on my own island and plan to stay isolated for as long as possible, Tokugawa-style (TOKUUUUUU!!!!!)
Now for the questions:
- CS asks me to discover new lands. Is it a new quest? Never had this one before. Problem is I discovered a great deal of land but progress is still at 0%. Is it a bug or do I misunderstood the purpose of the quest?
- I received notifications that India and the Huns raided Great Persons (Yes, I am at war with both of them. No, I didn't stay isolated for very long). Are they MY Great Persons? Is it something I need to counter? How?
- Also something about the Huns getting burial ceremonial for their warriors. Is it something I need to care about? Is it part of new shiny VP or is it from another mod? (I added 'more mod components' and 'community events' mods recently. First time I play with them.
Anyway, great job and thank you
There are tons of new things and they all bring freshness and a new kind of excitement to the game. Sadly I don't have much time to play (and less even to read 7 pages of thread ). I have started a game as Tradition Japan, making the jump from Prince to King. I am on my own island and plan to stay isolated for as long as possible, Tokugawa-style (TOKUUUUUU!!!!!)Now for the questions:
- CS asks me to discover new lands. Is it a new quest? Never had this one before. Problem is I discovered a great deal of land but progress is still at 0%. Is it a bug or do I misunderstood the purpose of the quest?
- I received notifications that India and the Huns raided Great Persons (Yes, I am at war with both of them. No, I didn't stay isolated for very long). Are they MY Great Persons? Is it something I need to counter? How?
- Also something about the Huns getting burial ceremonial for their warriors. Is it something I need to care about? Is it part of new shiny VP or is it from another mod? (I added 'more mod components' and 'community events' mods recently. First time I play with them.
Anyway, great job and thank you
Mad Madigan
Prince
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2016
- Messages
- 403
Re: The latest Communitu_79 map script being included with VP
First, congrats and thank you to tu_79 and the others that put in the work to balance this out!
Second, I noticed that the "default" settings for the script have it set for "Terra" mode and with 2 Atlantic rifts, whereas the "old" Communitas map script defaulted to "All Continents" mode and 1 Pacific, 1 Atlantic rift. This change might be throwing people off if they are used to just playing Communitas with its default settings.
Personally, I am still feeling out my favorite settings for the map, but overall it is a tremendous improvement over the old Communitas script. Right now I'm playing with the "default" settings but using "All Continents" mode rather than "Terra" and "Slinky" continents rather than "Blocky". With these settings the ratio of available land area to the default number of major and minor civs feels about right. There is enough room around each major civ's starting area for 4-5 cities without having to war over limited space, but further expansion requires conflict. It's also nice to see that minor civs are no longer spawning next to natural wonders (or natural wonders are not spawning next to minor civs, as I think that is how the script works). In Communitas on a Large map there would always be one or two minor civs that would spawn within 3-4 tiles of a natural wonder and claim it. So far I haven't seen that happen on Communitu_79.
Cheers!
First, congrats and thank you to tu_79 and the others that put in the work to balance this out!
Second, I noticed that the "default" settings for the script have it set for "Terra" mode and with 2 Atlantic rifts, whereas the "old" Communitas map script defaulted to "All Continents" mode and 1 Pacific, 1 Atlantic rift. This change might be throwing people off if they are used to just playing Communitas with its default settings.
Personally, I am still feeling out my favorite settings for the map, but overall it is a tremendous improvement over the old Communitas script. Right now I'm playing with the "default" settings but using "All Continents" mode rather than "Terra" and "Slinky" continents rather than "Blocky". With these settings the ratio of available land area to the default number of major and minor civs feels about right. There is enough room around each major civ's starting area for 4-5 cities without having to war over limited space, but further expansion requires conflict. It's also nice to see that minor civs are no longer spawning next to natural wonders (or natural wonders are not spawning next to minor civs, as I think that is how the script works). In Communitas on a Large map there would always be one or two minor civs that would spawn within 3-4 tiles of a natural wonder and claim it. So far I haven't seen that happen on Communitu_79.
Cheers!
No, it was a regular pangea map with no other specific options.
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