Recovering from Last Place after Expansion Phase, Step by Step

[Chieftess]

One interesting thing to note is the use the of the FP/palace rank exploit. This was fixed in C3C, and in C3C 1.15, corruption has been reworked. If Zerksees is up to it (granted, the game's been spoiled already), give it another run under the C3C 1.15 corruption model. I just took a look at Kyoto, and under the PTW model, it had maybe 2% corruption. Under the C3C 1.15 model, it has 55-60% corruption. GPT went from the thousands to -479gpt during the next turn. (Nothing a little communist government can't fix! ). Granted, I think loading a PTW save would affect corruption a bit at this stage of the game. I'd really like to see how Zerksees can handle this in C3C 1.15, without the palace/FP exploit.

 

[zerksees]

Chieftess,

You pose an interesting question. I am sure the FP/palace rank exploit expedited the victory.

I am not so sure it would affect the outcome however. It is absolutely possible that, at any time before China fell, the AI had the military power to squash Japan like a bug. Not using that exploit would have extended the time when Japan was in that precarious position, and it would have extended the amount of time it took to reach the conquest victory, but I am skeptical it would have affected the outcome. The exploit was first put into effect in 1250 AD, after some of the worst danger had passed. The game ended in 1846, leaving over 150 turns left to overcome the increased corruption from not using this exploit. I can assure you that the original FP placement was not done with the rank exploit in mind – it was done to help the furthest cities and save a few gpt by selling nearby courthouses.

Your observation was from loading up the last turn of the game into C3C, right? At that time I had the palace placed far away from any good cities. If I had been using the forbidden palace as it was intended, then both the palace and the FP would have been surrounded by fully developed cities. I am sure proper palace and FP placement in C3C could not have matched the low corruption level I received in PTW, but it could lower it from the -479 you saw. In effect the exploit in PTW has disastrous results in C3C.

In addition, I was way too conservative in conquest of the second continent. I was building units faster than I could use them up. If I had it to do over, I would be much more aggressive, and therefore affect the outcome because of what I learned the first time (spoiled as you mentioned).

For now I will pass on this challenge. I have already spent 142 hours or so playing this one game (plus how many hours documenting?), and I do not think I want to do it again.

 

[AWeeMoose]

Absolutely masterful. I play Conquests on Warlord level, soon to move up to Regent, and this game shows me 1) that some players are really freakin' good and 2) anything is possible, if you know what your goals are and how to get to them. It also reminds me why I play on smaller maps: I can't stand the time and effort it takes to play with umpteen million cities and units on large and huge maps.

Quick question though: You spent 140+ hours playing this over the course of how many days/weeks? Based on using four free hours each day, that's still over 1 month!

 

[zerksees]

I spent 45 days on this game from start to finish. For days I have been thinking about adding a comment about the number of days spent to the thread but never got around to it. I will edit the original posts include this.

I guess I spent more than 3 hours a day on this.

 

[illphil]

what is the FC/palace exploit you mention, i remember reading some stuff in your description that sounded like it, but why does it work.
the specifics are probably already somewhere else on this site so a re-direction is all I really need if it is available

 

[SanPellegrino]

great job, also you seem to have a lot of patience. Myself I like the "bad" starts best, they usually make the most interesting games

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by illphil
what is the FC/palace exploit you mention, i remember reading some stuff in your description that sounded like it, but why does it work.
the specifics are probably already somewhere else on this site so a re-direction is all I really need if it is available

In vanilla Civ3 and PTW, you can build your palace really close to the capital, and then move your palace to the other side of the world, FAR away from the palace. You'll have amazingly reduced corruption.

 

[AlanH]

@illphil:

Here's the thread detailing the FP Corruption exploit.

 

[illphil]

@ Chieftess & Alan H:
thanks a bundle

 

[zerksees]

Originally posted by SanPellegrino
great job, also you seem to have a lot of patience. Myself I like the "bad" starts best, they usually make the most interesting games

I too like to be challenged by the game, and this game was quite a challenge.

My game changed profoundly after reading your "rogue state strategy" last year. Thanks.

 

[SinisterDeath]

Awesome job !!!

Anyone think about suing Firaxis for making a game more addictive than crack?

The 45 days and 1,000,000 hours remind me why I love to play small and tiny maps, my games only take 2 or 3 days to complete. I played a large World Map (scenario, I think) and it took forever.

 

[Mano3]

You Rock!!!

I like your idea of naming the cities for what they produce.

 

[Shevek]

Hats off to you, Zerksees.
Not only well played, but also excellently written and documented.
This read is education and entertainment all in one.

 

[RegentMan]

Beautiful job! After looking at your map and seeing peace-time turns took 40+ minutes, I just couldn't fathom that. I'd never play a huge map because of that. But you took a civ from last place to number one.

 

[Illusion13]

I shall tag this for later readings

 

[Gogf]

Good job Zersees!

I am playing it out, and need some help. I have entered the modern age, and have no aluminum. What do I do? Once I get Modern Armors, I can really a world a player.

 

[E-Raser]

AMAZING, in any case! Exspecially your patience. But your article is worth to be read up to the very end. I was able to catch some new ideas for my own gamestyle - thank U for 4 that! - and one thing is for sure:

It ain't over 'till it's over

 

[Favorius]

It was a great effort to write this article, I am currently playing in emperor and have less resources so it will be useful for me.But whatever the difficulty level or your current situation is, artillery( for wars) and railroads(for development) rocks!!!

On the other hand what is cultural conversion and its difference from cultural flipping??(at least in C3C)

 

[zerksees]

Gogf PM'd a Conquests 1520 AD savegame to me.

Gogf - I spent about 15 minutes reviewing your save and it looks good to me so far. It is interesting that the English and Arabs are out of the game in your game - not sure what made that happen. It appears you have 3 more modern age techs than I did at that time so things are going fairly well in that area, though I had a score of 726 vs. your 693. I don't think the score difference is a big deal. You are in the game and power is rising - that is good.

Funny I was also at war with Rome in 1520 AD.

My only suggestion is to investigate communism. I have read from several of the better players that it is powerful in Conquests. Would not recommend it for PTW. Compare the numbers in mfg goods, total gold and corruption before and after the switch.

Favorius - AFAIK culture conversion and culture flipping is the same thing.

edit:

Forgot to mention that I made a similar attempt on another game posted in CFC. Check out what happened in this thread

 

[Sukenis]

zerksees,

I remember reading the original thread on this game and thinking the guy had no chance and should give up. You amaze me on how you turned what many thought was an "unwinnable" situation and won hands down. Not only that buy that you spent 45 days seeing if the majority was right or wrong about the game being unwinnable. I will never again just give up and quit a game. I may only be able to win on Monarch level (with the save/reload cheat when I do REAL bad), but you have still inspired me.

Any other tips you have, I would love to hear/read.