Republican Bidens and the Failure of the Democratic Party

Do you ever have a different point, Zard, or is it the same thing anytime anyone ever mentions "the left" and "elections"?

Reality has an electoral bias. Strange concept I know.

CFC "leftists" don't get that. The smugness and self righteousness doest match up with the electorate.

If it did we wouldn't bee seeing these results pan out across multiple countries.

At what point are you going to admit your ideas aren't that popular? What party represents your beliefs in UK?

I guessing it's not Labour.
 
Reality has an electoral bias. Strange concept I know.

CFC "leftists" don't get that. The smugness and self righteousness doest match up with the electorate.
Everyone's opinion in one way or another doesn't always reflect what is. It reflects what we want it to be.

Funny for you to be lecturing about smugness though :D
 
Everyone's opinion in one way or another doesn't always reflect what is. It reflects what we want it to be.

Funny for you to be lecturing about smugness though :D

Well your opinion hasn't really changed much either has it?

And you actively avoid variations of "what would you do".

Platitudes if do better or th8ngs xan be better in the future are exactly that. If you dont do something right now the future could also go the other way.
 
Well your opinion hasn't really changed much either has it?
Like you'd know, haha. My opinion on things has changed a lot in the last decade.

And even when it hasn't, I don't say the same thing on repeat regardless of how applicable it is.

What you call "reality" is just "Zardnaar's opinion". It's easy to think you're being realistic if you're convinced your opinion reflects it. But heaven forbid someone say that to you! You don't like being accused of supporting the status quo, but that's what being "realistic" always is when you say it. Defending the now, cautioning against anything ever changing.
And you actively avoid variations of "what would you do".
Nah, I avoid bad faith questions.

Even when I answered them, it didn't matter. Remember? Or not?
 
Moderator Action: Back to topic please. Thanks - lymond
 
Do the electability fetishists in Israel have opinions about the permissible calorific content per person that may enter Gaza I wonder. What degree of starvation polls best, and why is it the progressives fault for refusing to compromise.

And this is why leftists aren't doing so good. How does caring about Gaza help day to day life in your country?

There's only so much airtime to go around and there's a lot of causes to support.

Moderator Action: SNIP - That is uncalled for here. Do not do it again or you will be permabanned from this thread. -lymond

The big issue everywhere seems to be cost of living crisis. Followed/related to cost of housing. If everyone is angry about those issues which directly effect them vs Gaza or social cause of the week that's a way bigger issue imho.

People will only care about more abstract ideals that don't directly effect them if they're reasonably comfortable.

If you dont it leaves you open for a right wing populist who's good at blaming others. And because you haven't really spoken about XYZ group who needs help they're not that inclined to listen because you've been ignoring them or pushing some cause that in the grand scene of things doesn't effect most of the country.

So even if you had some left wing progressive get elected the fixes take time. It's a generational solution. Any law they put in to protect XYZ group can easily be repealed by said right wing populist. Eg Wade vs Roe.

So Biden or whoever passing said law it it's only a temporary thing. Don't fix the primary cause of those pissed of people it's only a temporary fix. Eventually you will lose a election.

Biggest problem with left is they over promise and fail to deliver. In America they usually lack the numbers. Elsewhere a mix of incompetence and pandering to the middle.

Right just has to get elected, tax cuts and torpedo the lefts unpopular policies. Job done. Failing that no tax increases and insult the left. Followers are easily pleased.

Right now the discourse is culture war stuff ( 80-90% support you anyway). And Gaza. Sucks for Gazans but where are your talking points for middle America (or UK, Australia etc).

UK and Australia left got lucky the right defeated themselves. If Trump loses similar deal you got lucky and Trump defeats himself.
 
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Americans are blind to what is happening in their own cities. Their major cities are flooded with anything you'd consider bad: illegals, drugs, crime..., the leading cause of death is fentanyl.
(que in some moron who say it's heart disease)

America is a third world country, their leader has no idea what's going on. Their vice-president is even more of a joke.
 
Americans are blind to what is happening in their own cities. Their major cities are flooded with anything you'd consider bad: illegals, drugs, crime..., the leading cause of death is fentanyl.
(que in some moron who say it's heart disease)

America is a third world country, their leader has no idea what's going on. Their vice-president is even more of a joke.

And the GoP actively makes that worse vs Democrats BS.

Other countries do better via social spending and the law.
 
Americans are blind to what is happening in their own cities.
Are you saying that I am not aware (blind) to what is going on in my city and that I do not know what is going on in other places across our very large country?
 
People also commonly forget that Obama ran on a platform of Hope and Change. What he did in office was a sharp betrayal of what he promised voters, but Obama's success was a clear indication that Americans (Republican, Democrat and otherwise) did want change. Trump also ran on a campaign of change (admittedly a horrific vision of change). Trump, unlike Biden, delivered. Roe v. Wade is dead and a bunch of other progressive rulings are on the chopping block. LGBT rights are down the toilet. That might be more the work of state governments but Trump will claim those things as his wins.

This story indeed starts with Obama's betrayal of the "Hope and Change" he sold.

Obama is a character that ought to be studied carefully. His is very much a product of inbred american elites, regardless of race. Parents were probably CIA or close to it, with cover stories. Obama was the high tide of the takeover of the state's politics by a portion of its permanent bureaucracy. There is always promiscuity in politics with the permanent bureaucracy, in any country and type of politlca regime. But the US centralized, the bureaucracy grew in numbers, and this promiscuity got more pronounced there ever since WW2. The result, in any country, is always an emptying of democracy: the ritual of elections remains but the policies are decided and enacted regardless of what the voters want.

Thus the betrayals by Obama. There would be no change. He represented the existing trend winning again. Betraing all electoral promises and immiserating citizens while bailing out the wealthy, during the crisis.

Trump was the reaction of the voters. Which was regarded as high heresy by the permanent bureaucracy, for what he said even if not for what he managed to do. They chose to rally for a reaction in the Democratic Party, as dictated by the dual nature of US politics of the time. The bureaucracy never forgave the sting of losing to Trump, hence the lawfare during his term, and now to prevent any repeat of that, a continuation of the fight since. In this they turned the Democrats into the party of the permanent bureaucracy, and consequentially eased the takeover of the republicans by an apparent, and to some degree real, opposition to them. The "populist" faction now has much firmer control within the Republican Party, Trump is running an organized and well-backed campaign this time.

The Democratic Party has turned its back on the deplorable population of the country. As it eagerly allied with the offended state bureaucracy, it inevitably merged with it, with its interests. Politically that will either lead to its failure as a democratic party, or a supression of formal democracy in order for it to take and hold power. Because a party openly allied to a (by definion) small elite and its interests cannot be popular and win elections. The Democrats are attempting to be politically competitive by relying on the faults of their only rivals (the Republicans), public disinterest in politics, and advantages in propaganda and cash spent. This only works if the system is so controlled that "the alternative is worse". In a real democracy there will always be rivals winning populatity and beating them. Long term, this "merger" of the party with small elite grups and their narrow interests as a class causes its failure as a competitive party in a democratic regime.
 
This story indeed starts with Obama's betrayal of the "Hope and Change" he sold.

Obama is a character that ought to be studied carefully. His is very much a product of inbred american elites, regardless of race. Parents were probably CIA or close to it, with cover stories. Obama was the high tide of the takeover of the state's politics by a portion of its permanent bureaucracy. There is always promiscuity in politics with the permanent bureaucracy, in any country and type of politlca regime. But the US centralized, the bureaucracy grew in numbers, and this promiscuity got more pronounced there ever since WW2. The result, in any country, is always an emptying of democracy: the ritual of elections remains but the policies are decided and enacted regardless of what the voters want.

Thus the betrayals by Obama. There would be no change. He represented the existing trend winning again. Betraing all electoral promises and immiserating citizens while bailing out the wealthy, during the crisis.

Trump was the reaction of the voters. Which was regarded as high heresy by the permanent bureaucracy, for what he said even if not for what he managed to do. They chose to rally for a reaction in the Democratic Party, as dictated by the dual nature of US politics of the time. The bureaucracy never forgave the sting of losing to Trump, hence the lawfare during his term, and now to prevent any repeat of that, a continuation of the fight since. In this they turned the Democrats into the party of the permanent bureaucracy, and consequentially eased the takeover of the republicans by an apparent, and to some degree real, opposition to them. The "populist" faction now has much firmer control within the Republican Party, Trump is running an organized and well-backed campaign this time.

The Democratic Party has turned its back on the deplorable population of the country. As it eagerly allied with the offended state bureaucracy, it inevitably merged with it, with its interests. Politically that will either lead to its failure as a democratic party, or a supression of formal democracy in order for it to take and hold power. Because a party openly allied to a (by definion) small elite and its interests cannot be popular and win elections. The Democrats are attempting to be politically competitive by relying on the faults of their only rivals (the Republicans), public disinterest in politics, and advantages in propaganda and cash spent. This only works if the system is so controlled that "the alternative is worse". In a real democracy there will always be rivals winning populatity and beating them. Long term, this "merger" of the party with small elite grups and their narrow interests as a class causes its failure as a competitive party in a democratic regime.

Or he over promised and under delivered because there's no easy fix to complex problems?
 
Or he over promised and under delivered because there's no easy fix to complex problems?

No. Anyone saying that is a total liar.

Obama's great betrayal was the bailout for bankers while the victims of bankers had their mortgages foreclosed. Fraudulently, by the banks. That is all the histories of the "great financial crisis" as it became known. The US government could have taken over thebanks, they were going under without state help, and fired and replaced their mangment. Instead Obama protected them and kept them in place. ealing with failed banks and penalizing the fraudters in management was not an unknown skill in the US, the people who did it during the savings&loans crisis in the 1980s are atil alive.

It was easy to regulate banks in order to stop abuses of power by its management. The legislation existed, it is in the historcial records. It was matter of reinstating the laws that Clinton threw away. Obama refused to do that, instead produced a fig-leaf proposal for legislation that did not rein in the abuses.
 
No. Anyone saying that is a total liar.

Obama's great betrayal was the bailout for bankers while the victims of bankers had their mortgages foreclosed. Fraudulently, by the banks. That is all the histories of the "great financial crisis" as it became known. The US government could have taken over thebanks, they were going under without state help, and fired and replaced their mangment. Instead Obama protected them and kept them in place. ealing with failed banks and penalizing the fraudters in management was not an unknown skill in the US, the people who did it during the savings&loans crisis in the 1980s are atil alive.

It was easy to regulate banks in order to stop abuses of power by its management. The legislation existed, it is in the historcial records. It was matter of reinstating the laws that Clinton threw away. Obama refused to do that, instead produced a fig-leaf proposal for legislation that did not rein in the abuses.

He personally doesn't gave tge power to go after the bankers etc as president. His administration kept tge economy from cratering.

In America you need to control tge presidency, senate, house and SCOTUS onside to do much.

Makes gridlock comparatively easy.
 
Obama and the Democratic Party had control of all that during the acute ohase of the crisis. Moreover, it was a new crisis and "no one knew what to do". It was one of those times where the president could do pretty much anything because there was an emergency going on.

What did Obama do in this emergency situation where he could have pretty much changed everything? He picked a member of the banker mafia as treasury secretary and pushed through their wish list.
 
Obama and the Democratic Party had control of all that during the acute ohase of the crisis. Moreover, it was a new crisis and "no one knew what to do". It was one of those times where the president could do pretty much anything because there was an emergency going on.

What did Obama do in this emergency situation where he could have pretty much changed everything? He picked a member of the banker mafia as treasury secretary and pushed through their wish list.

He could have absolutely dine better.

Who's spearheading the charge on deregulation and tax cuts? Democrats aren't perfect but in sone ways you're broadly right.

Reaganomics has a lot to answer for.
 
People will only care about more abstract ideals that don't directly effect them if they're reasonably comfortable.
Sums it up.

Americans are blind to what is happening in their own cities. Their major cities are flooded with anything you'd consider bad: illegals, drugs, crime..., the leading cause of death is fentanyl.
(que in some moron who say it's heart disease)

America is a third world country, their leader has no idea what's going on. Their vice-president is even more of a joke.
Meh, I lived in NYC in the 80s and 90s, by comparison it's like candyland today (if you can afford it)

US is not a 3rd world country, if anything like Z said it's too comfortable allowing the populace to be less and less atuned to reality (especially lil kids who don't have to work which is a lot of this thread)
 
Sums it up.


Meh, I lived in NYC in the 80s and 90s, by comparison it's like candyland today (if you can afford it)

US is not a 3rd world country, if anything like Z said it's too comfortable allowing the populace to be less and less atuned to reality (especially lil kids who don't have to work which is a lot of this thread)

Also based that opinion on NZ. Used to be on the forefront of anti Vietnam War, Apartheid, anti nuclear, human rights etc.

We're were a cranial to grave welfare state. We've gad 40 years of neo liberalism since then. Still the most progressive Anglo-Saxon country in the world generally top 10 world wide.

But people care about the cost of living crisis. Things are rough now and we're getting American style discourse on issues the internet cares about.

Left just lost an election because the right used economic distress to weaponize into Maori three waters stuff when most people can't even explain what it was.

I don't have a good grasp either because they never really explained it. Things are getting worse as well so anotgerv3 years minimum of it. First time we've had an outright incompetent government in decades.

Left here also over promised and under delivered. Lots of big promises and hope and change while they tinkered around the margins. But tgey had to coalition a right wing party to govern then covid landed into a recession.
 
Things are rough now and we're getting American style discourse on issues the internet cares about.

Left just lost an election because the right used economic distress to weaponize into Maori three waters stuff when most people can't even explain what it was.

I don't have a good grasp either because they never really explained it. Things are getting worse as well so anotgerv3 years minimum of it. First time we've had an outright incompetent government in decades.
There's no way some of the outrage stuff isn't egged on by agent provocateurs. The left willing to admit these types infiltrated say BLM protests but to admit they're in their discord or Facebook groups or WhatsApp chats is a bridge too far. No one wants to believe they're capable of getting mind-f-ed. They want to believe they've assessed the world on their own terms and come to their own decisions.

Left & right laughing at each other's extremists while trying to one-up each other w their own not realizing not only are they performing but some of their comrades are proper actors (as opposed to just what we called posers back in the day).

I suppose the ease of anonymous communication made this inevitable.
 
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