Verbose
Deity
Saudi Arabia has expressed no intention of dismantling NATO and the European collective security system. Russia started a war over it.
Russia and the West
- Thread starter amadeus
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Ukraine is part of Europe, and at the moment providing security to rest of Eastern Europe, at a great cost to itself.
There is no "double standard" outside of your wishful thinking.
So is Russia, which is more than 50% of the entire continent of Europe. That's not enough to make it automatically part of anything, neither for Ukraine.
Not sure how you claim Ukraine is in the war to provide security for eastern Europe. Then talk about "wishful thinking" in the next line
I do sympathize (I am not being ironic) with the inferred projection, that as long as Russia is confronted in Ukraine, a theoretical future invasion of your own country by Russia can't happen. But it is too theoretical, since at some point this war will end, and Russia will still be there.
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Ukraine's resistance is not "automatic", but a huge effort.
Yes, Russia is in Europe and engaged in being a pain in the butt for every single one of its European neighbors.
Unlike Saudis.
Russian appetite for next invasion is going to be inversely related to the size of its territorial gains from current one.
And no, colonial empire called "Russian Federation" is not some historical constant.
They are roughly equidistant, but that is irrelevant. Unlike Russians, Saudis are not seeking confrontation with the West.
Lexicus
Deity
I think this is a pretty terrible take. There were a number of problems that were preventing Russia from "becoming Western," the most important being the complete failure of Western-designed policies to transition out of the Soviet era. This must be acknowledged in any discussion of how Russia ended up the way it is today; acting as though it is just some moral failure of Russians in a vacuum is silly.
Sarin
Deity
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West advised, but wasn't the one implementing those policies. The advice was sound, it worked for most Warsaw Pact countries. Poland and Czechoslovakia, two most successful former Warsaw Pact economies, transitioned the same way. Besides, it wasn't the only choice they had and were offered. The issue lies in internal Soviet Union factors and failure of Yeltsin and his cabinet to properly account for them.
Snowygerry
Deity
One 'Western Value' is a healthy dose of disinterest in events in far away places.
Our values are by no means universal either, some people disagree with them - that much is obvious.
And proximity certainly is an important factor in our willingness to aggressively promote them.
I agree. It's not that I can't see his point (which is certainly valid for some euro countries, including his own - but not all). But I am stating that it's not defensible to (instead of saying outright what the reason is) pretend this is about being close to "western" values.
saamohod
Deity
My take is that it isn't the duty of the West to babysit countries like the failed USSR. No one babysat the West.
The West provided lots of humanitarian aid and didn't outright invade or installed puppet regime. (Things that Russia would do)
Remorseless1
Emperor
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Nobody in their right minds believe the practices of the Saudi resemble anything close to "western" values. The West supports the Saudis for the same reason it had trade agreements with Russia -- both countries are giant fueling stations for rich economies. No other reason, period.
Eighteen months ago, most Americans didn't care about Russia or Ukraine. Now, of course, there is a negative view of Russia. Funny how invading a smaller neighboring country with no reality-based provocation can make other people get upset.
Killing babies is a bad look. Raping toddlers just make it worse.
Here is a joke song written in the 1980 Soviet Union called "On The Wages of Servicemen"
A weird swerve into racism near the end, or maybe poking fun at how racist the USA is?
But nevertheless, all will be blown to bits for 3 rubles (a low day's pay I think?)
The chorus is catchy.
Weird song.
I can't quite figure it out.
It does seem to capture the insanity of the cold war in some way when a choir sings it.
The audience liked it, and I think the choir got in trouble for singing it.
A weird swerve into racism near the end, or maybe poking fun at how racist the USA is?
But nevertheless, all will be blown to bits for 3 rubles (a low day's pay I think?)
The chorus is catchy.
Weird song.
I can't quite figure it out.
It does seem to capture the insanity of the cold war in some way when a choir sings it.
The audience liked it, and I think the choir got in trouble for singing it.
Never heard this one before.
Googled the text, author is Andrey Kozlovsky, written it in 1980.
The author said it was meant as satire and joke, and wasn't appropriate in official event.
Generally, dark humor like this was quite common in 1980s and later.
Googled the text, author is Andrey Kozlovsky, written it in 1980.
The author said it was meant as satire and joke, and wasn't appropriate in official event.
Generally, dark humor like this was quite common in 1980s and later.
The primary victims are Ukrainians, who are certainly closer to "Western values" than Houthis.
I do regard your own worries as valid. I do not view the above as very good an argument, though.
That said, we all deserve better and there's no use in going back and forth on this ^^
It may be interesting to compare how both sides portrayed each other in the movies, during the Cold War.
Russians were shown decently well in Kubrick's "Odyssey 2001" and in its sequel.
A lot of funny moments were in "Red Heat" with Schwarzenegger, some of them became memes in Russia.
Lots of stereotypes there too, but not necessarily negative ones.
For the Soviet counterpart, I recall "The Mirage" (1983), an adaptation of James Hadley Chase's novel "The World in My Pocket"
The original author was British, but I vaguely remember the gray-haired guy was a Vietnam veteran, so the movie events were likely about USA.
Robbery scene (no translation, but it shouldn't be too important)
Russians were shown decently well in Kubrick's "Odyssey 2001" and in its sequel.
A lot of funny moments were in "Red Heat" with Schwarzenegger, some of them became memes in Russia.
Lots of stereotypes there too, but not necessarily negative ones.
For the Soviet counterpart, I recall "The Mirage" (1983), an adaptation of James Hadley Chase's novel "The World in My Pocket"
The original author was British, but I vaguely remember the gray-haired guy was a Vietnam veteran, so the movie events were likely about USA.
Robbery scene (no translation, but it shouldn't be too important)
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I am not sure how western Ukraine is. I am not even sure that Greece or my country are west. Its a strange construct, which could probably end by 1989.
I more evaluate the level of humanism. I would rate it a year ago something like Afghanistan < SA < China < Belarus < Russia < Greece.
I have always believed that people were acting bad because lack of information or desperation. The Russian invasion made me to reconsider.
Drago in Rocky IV. Since you are gamer/scifi enthusiansist, I can recommend old real time strategy Original war according the novel by German author Jeschke.
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Farm Boy
run boy run
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The patch on his shoulder is "U.S. Army" so probably American. Not sure what the takeaway is, "tenderhearted?" or is it more "traumatized" or "bumbling?" Not sure really without the nature of the dialogue.
One of the principle Cold War portrayals of a Russian in American T.V. was in one of the most hopeful, Pavel Chekov. Played by a 2nd generation Russian immigrant, the subtext in the Original Series was always that the Cold War would pass, and we would share the future among the stars.
