RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
Very thorough plan, MOTH. Thank you!
SGOTM6 - Team RowAndLive
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
MOTH
Emperor
I downloaded the save and took a look. The water is coast, not lake, so that cow will probably be unimproved until we get map making. Also, our competition in game is:
MOTH
Emperor
Edit: I had a lot more comments in response to others coments that I lost when IE crashed. I will recreate and make a new post.
The save is here for easy access: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_BC4000_01.SAV
I forgot about this until I saw the comment. We have a pre-build from the start of the game: Heroic Epic. We can use this as a pre-build for our initial Granary as well as for Pyramids.
Now for some new discussion points for 50+ turns from now:
I saw it posted that the map is a contigous Panagea map that was modified (or built) by hand. It would not suprise me if we are on one end of a huge snake continent with the early UU civs next in line down the snake. Babylonians, Vikings, Carthaginians, Iroquois, etc. This could make getting map making more important than going for Lit and Libraries. Even the Great Lighthouse could be very important as it allows us to move 3 coast tiles instead of 2.
As far as Palace jumps, I know the theory, but I have never done one. Is anyone adept at the art of calculating and performing these jumps?
The save is here for easy access: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_BC4000_01.SAV
Durkz said:
I forgot about this until I saw the comment. We have a pre-build from the start of the game: Heroic Epic. We can use this as a pre-build for our initial Granary as well as for Pyramids.
Now for some new discussion points for 50+ turns from now:
I saw it posted that the map is a contigous Panagea map that was modified (or built) by hand. It would not suprise me if we are on one end of a huge snake continent with the early UU civs next in line down the snake. Babylonians, Vikings, Carthaginians, Iroquois, etc. This could make getting map making more important than going for Lit and Libraries. Even the Great Lighthouse could be very important as it allows us to move 3 coast tiles instead of 2.
As far as Palace jumps, I know the theory, but I have never done one. Is anyone adept at the art of calculating and performing these jumps?
MOTH
Emperor
Recreate post with comments on various comments:
Thanks for all the nice posts about my spreadsheet. I usually have excellent GOTM starts where I sometimes even beat the elite players. My games then fall apart in the mid-game. Well, not fall apart, but not progress really fast. I am a builder at heart and have been trying to change my spots for play in the GOTMs.
BTW, If we don't end up with a 3rd bg then I will calculate where and when to either irrigate a plains or mine a grass to get the needed production. If we do get another bg then the settler pump can run as 4-turns with no MM once we mine the additional bg. I'm going to start looking at Irrigating the game instead of mining it to see where that would get us. Maybe a size 5-6 warrior/settler pump?
As always, this is a team game and I welcome discussions and arguments. I will often comment with something that I believe to be true but could be a figment of my imagination. If you think I said something stupid, please feel free to comment. Expect stupid comments on war mongering (as this is my weak area).
We are in my comfort zone. I'll try and make sure we are building enough culture as we go.
As for the FP, a key to quick 100K will be to move the Palace a lot. As such we should build the FP in our initial core as this will be the only constart low corruption area we will have for the entire game. We also will need to leave some gaps (RCP 4?) in our ICS pattern as jump targets for the Palace so that we continue to have low corruption in our initial core.
in reverse order...
rrau checked in as one of the ladies. I assume that Elmarae is the other but I just want to be sure.
We should build temples and libraries as surplus population allows. Once we have a warrior pump running then 1 cycle as temple instead with a 20 shield pop-rush gets some culture. Libraries are tougher, but our 50 shield UU can be a key short-rush object. For libraries I could see the following sequence: turn x: 10 shields in the bank, turn x+1: pop-rush GS (using 2 pop) and switch to library, after 10 more shields (60 in bank) pop rush Library. We could also possibly use a 30 sheild unit as an intermediate rush before the GS, but the whiping penalty is the same. We can possibly spread the whip unhappiness arround somewhat.
The only critical wonder in the early game is the Pyramids. We must have this wonder as it allows quicker pop-rushing. The Colossus is also nice in one of the core cities when topped of later with one (or two) of the double science wonders.
I agree that early expansion is key and 2 settler factories would be ideal. I propose a rough city plan as follows (assuming adequet locations):
Cities 1 and 2: settlers (and some workers when needed)
City 3: barracks and warriors (for MP and later upgrades)
City 4: Pyramids
City 5: worker pump
City 6: Colossus
City 7-10: barracks and warriors.
After getting Pottery I think we should continue full speed towards IW. We will need to get Masonry pretty quickly. Possibly before IW while we build up our warriors.
The post above in response to Durkz would have gone here in my original message. Go read about our pre-build and other thoughts.
Thanks for all the nice posts about my spreadsheet. I usually have excellent GOTM starts where I sometimes even beat the elite players. My games then fall apart in the mid-game. Well, not fall apart, but not progress really fast. I am a builder at heart and have been trying to change my spots for play in the GOTMs.
BTW, If we don't end up with a 3rd bg then I will calculate where and when to either irrigate a plains or mine a grass to get the needed production. If we do get another bg then the settler pump can run as 4-turns with no MM once we mine the additional bg. I'm going to start looking at Irrigating the game instead of mining it to see where that would get us. Maybe a size 5-6 warrior/settler pump?
As always, this is a team game and I welcome discussions and arguments. I will often comment with something that I believe to be true but could be a figment of my imagination. If you think I said something stupid, please feel free to comment. Expect stupid comments on war mongering (as this is my weak area).
Elmarae said:
We are in my comfort zone. I'll try and make sure we are building enough culture as we go.
As for the FP, a key to quick 100K will be to move the Palace a lot. As such we should build the FP in our initial core as this will be the only constart low corruption area we will have for the entire game. We also will need to leave some gaps (RCP 4?) in our ICS pattern as jump targets for the Palace so that we continue to have low corruption in our initial core.
RowAndLive said:
in reverse order...
rrau checked in as one of the ladies. I assume that Elmarae is the other but I just want to be sure.
We should build temples and libraries as surplus population allows. Once we have a warrior pump running then 1 cycle as temple instead with a 20 shield pop-rush gets some culture. Libraries are tougher, but our 50 shield UU can be a key short-rush object. For libraries I could see the following sequence: turn x: 10 shields in the bank, turn x+1: pop-rush GS (using 2 pop) and switch to library, after 10 more shields (60 in bank) pop rush Library. We could also possibly use a 30 sheild unit as an intermediate rush before the GS, but the whiping penalty is the same. We can possibly spread the whip unhappiness arround somewhat.
The only critical wonder in the early game is the Pyramids. We must have this wonder as it allows quicker pop-rushing. The Colossus is also nice in one of the core cities when topped of later with one (or two) of the double science wonders.
I agree that early expansion is key and 2 settler factories would be ideal. I propose a rough city plan as follows (assuming adequet locations):
Cities 1 and 2: settlers (and some workers when needed)
City 3: barracks and warriors (for MP and later upgrades)
City 4: Pyramids
City 5: worker pump
City 6: Colossus
City 7-10: barracks and warriors.
rrau said:
After getting Pottery I think we should continue full speed towards IW. We will need to get Masonry pretty quickly. Possibly before IW while we build up our warriors.
The post above in response to Durkz would have gone here in my original message. Go read about our pre-build and other thoughts.
MOTH
Emperor
Some more thoughts on techs:
We start with WC and CB (3 others have WC and 4 have CB).
5 Nations start with Pottery (Mongols, England, Iroquois, Vikings, America)
4 Nations start with Masonry (France, Carthage, China, America)
1 Nation starts with Bronze Working (Babylon)
Bronze Working and then Iron Working would seem to have the most promise as far as trading techs go.
We start with WC and CB (3 others have WC and 4 have CB).
5 Nations start with Pottery (Mongols, England, Iroquois, Vikings, America)
4 Nations start with Masonry (France, Carthage, China, America)
1 Nation starts with Bronze Working (Babylon)
Bronze Working and then Iron Working would seem to have the most promise as far as trading techs go.
RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
MOTH said:
This path also continues to construction, but it is an expensive path, and others (AI) will likely choose it for the defense. Wheel > HBR is always fairly quick, and not too expensive. Unfortunately, it doesn't trade up for much on the top path. I think that perhaps going to Math > Currency might be the most productive.
In the long run, I expect that Commercial will be our biggest contention (if they survive long enough).
ok i downloaded the starting save and will play the first 20 turns.
after seeing MOTHS spreadsheet i realized that i dont play openings in the right way but thanx to MOTHS ss i will have no problem.
good we have HE as a prebuild it will shurly make building pyramids easyer
i dont think that we realy need to jump a palace because the curent location will be a powerhouse in the future, but than it realy depends on the map configuration and on starting position. but its early to discus the P jump
after seeing MOTHS spreadsheet i realized that i dont play openings in the right way but thanx to MOTHS ss i will have no problem.
good we have HE as a prebuild it will shurly make building pyramids easyer
i dont think that we realy need to jump a palace because the curent location will be a powerhouse in the future, but than it realy depends on the map configuration and on starting position. but its early to discus the P jump
MOTH
Emperor
Just remember that my SS might not be perfect and it doesn't include mood management. Turn 12 is one where I'm not really sure what happens when the borders expand. If we are short a couple shields then I will adjust the plan during my turns. Food is the most important part of the picture followed by worker turns.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
I can only assume that R&L wants to place me between the ladies to act as a buffer to their otherwise unchecked bloodlust. 
MOTH your SS is wery good everything was as you have planed
and I have problem with that GOTM resurces the dont show in my civilopedia right and i suspect that they are not showing in the game. ( i have right clicked the most critical tiles to chek it if there are some of these resurces hidden from my sight so it didnt affect my turns at all. and just a note I SAW sheep in PTW test save.
0. 4000 BC -- worker NE, settler NW, Good news there are silks very near our future capital(in it's radius).
1. 3950 BC -- worker NW, settler NW.
2. 3900 BC -- settle Entremont, worker mine bg. bad news no new bg in our capitals radius (but it might be some under a forest).Set reasearch at 100% for pottery 20 turns.warior in 5.
3. 850 BC -- nothing.
4. 3800 BC -- nada.
5. 3750 BC -- nothing.
6. 3700 BC -- warrior in 1 pottery in 16.
7. 3650 BC -- we get our first military unit "the mighty warrior" rename him to MOTH and send him N.
8. 3600 BC -- worker finishes mine and i move him N, MOTH goes N and reveals another river and a wheat near it ( it look like a posibility for a new settler factory)
9. 3550 BC -- MOTH goes W and reveals 2 BG and a coast. worker irigates the Wh.
10. 3500 BC -- MOTH goes N some plains and G forest. worker works (lol). the second warrior in 1 turn potery in 12.
11. 3450 BC -- RowandLive is born (the warrior #2) he moves W and reveal some mountains, MOTH goes NE and reveals more plains and coast. Entermont grows in 1, set production to HE.
12. 3400 BC -- RowandLive goes W and reveals a goodie hut. Lux-slider to 20 % entermon is size 2 now. MOTH goes N and reveals coast. Pottery in 10.
13. 3350 BC -- MOTH goes E reveals coast and the land route breaks i will send MOTH south and RowandLive will go N. worker finished the irigation and i move him S (just like in the spreadsheet
)
14. 3300 BC -- RowandLive pops a goodie hut and a village is deserted blah
and there is a barbarian willage W from it (will not attack it it's too risky to lose R&L now when we need him for exploration). MOTH goes south. worker starts roading BG.
15. 3250 BC -- R&L NW and he reveals a barb warrior on a goodie hut ( blah cant resist a goodie hut must kill him).
IBT: that barb warrior leaves that goodie hut on a moutain, he probably saw some1. But who?
16. 3200 BC -- R&L goes W 1 tile from goodie hut.
17. 3150 BC -- Worker W>S (yes i'm followin the ss wery nicely). R&L W blah.. no luck with GH "Seljuk" barbs spawn. MOTH goes S. Capital grows to size 3 lux slider to 30% pottery in 5. No sign of eny1 right now ( that warrior which moved is now fortified on a tile next to the place where GH was. MOTH S.
IBT:Two barbs attack R&L and promote him to a vet with 2 HP down.
18. 3100 BC -- Worker starting to mine BG, R&L fortifies, MOTH S.
19. 3050 BC -- MOTH goes S.
20. 3000 BC -- R&L is healty again and i move him to destroy that vilage ( it can do us some trouble when we start expansion). pottery in 2, MOTH goes NW.
Firaxis score 75, Gold 10.
The SAVE
and I have problem with that GOTM resurces the dont show in my civilopedia right and i suspect that they are not showing in the game. ( i have right clicked the most critical tiles to chek it if there are some of these resurces hidden from my sight so it didnt affect my turns at all. and just a note I SAW sheep in PTW test save.
0. 4000 BC -- worker NE, settler NW, Good news there are silks very near our future capital(in it's radius).
1. 3950 BC -- worker NW, settler NW.
2. 3900 BC -- settle Entremont, worker mine bg. bad news no new bg in our capitals radius (but it might be some under a forest).Set reasearch at 100% for pottery 20 turns.warior in 5.
3. 850 BC -- nothing.
4. 3800 BC -- nada.
5. 3750 BC -- nothing.
6. 3700 BC -- warrior in 1 pottery in 16.
7. 3650 BC -- we get our first military unit "the mighty warrior" rename him to MOTH and send him N.
8. 3600 BC -- worker finishes mine and i move him N, MOTH goes N and reveals another river and a wheat near it ( it look like a posibility for a new settler factory)
9. 3550 BC -- MOTH goes W and reveals 2 BG and a coast. worker irigates the Wh.
10. 3500 BC -- MOTH goes N some plains and G forest. worker works (lol). the second warrior in 1 turn potery in 12.
11. 3450 BC -- RowandLive is born (the warrior #2) he moves W and reveal some mountains, MOTH goes NE and reveals more plains and coast. Entermont grows in 1, set production to HE.
12. 3400 BC -- RowandLive goes W and reveals a goodie hut. Lux-slider to 20 % entermon is size 2 now. MOTH goes N and reveals coast. Pottery in 10.
13. 3350 BC -- MOTH goes E reveals coast and the land route breaks i will send MOTH south and RowandLive will go N. worker finished the irigation and i move him S (just like in the spreadsheet
)14. 3300 BC -- RowandLive pops a goodie hut and a village is deserted blah
and there is a barbarian willage W from it (will not attack it it's too risky to lose R&L now when we need him for exploration). MOTH goes south. worker starts roading BG.15. 3250 BC -- R&L NW and he reveals a barb warrior on a goodie hut ( blah cant resist a goodie hut must kill him).
IBT: that barb warrior leaves that goodie hut on a moutain, he probably saw some1. But who?
16. 3200 BC -- R&L goes W 1 tile from goodie hut.
17. 3150 BC -- Worker W>S (yes i'm followin the ss wery nicely). R&L W blah.. no luck with GH "Seljuk" barbs spawn. MOTH goes S. Capital grows to size 3 lux slider to 30% pottery in 5. No sign of eny1 right now ( that warrior which moved is now fortified on a tile next to the place where GH was. MOTH S.
IBT:Two barbs attack R&L and promote him to a vet with 2 HP down.
18. 3100 BC -- Worker starting to mine BG, R&L fortifies, MOTH S.
19. 3050 BC -- MOTH goes S.
20. 3000 BC -- R&L is healty again and i move him to destroy that vilage ( it can do us some trouble when we start expansion). pottery in 2, MOTH goes NW.
Firaxis score 75, Gold 10.
The SAVE
Attachments
MOTH
Emperor
Got it. I will recalculate the SS to account for no bg. I may recall MOTH to act as MP as we might need to be a size 4.5-6 settler factory to account for missing shields. Maybe we can get another warrior out at some point to even things out. I should play this evening but first I've got to go to UPS to pickup my sweetie's new PDA/MP3 player (or face unchecked bloodlust.)
you are the 
MOTH
Emperor
pre-flight: everything looks good. Hit Space.
2950(1) - Adjust slider as Pottery is due in 1. We get +1 gpt.
IBT- Pottery comes in.
2900(2) - Switch Heroic Epic to Granary in 2 turns. R&L attacks barb camp and loses 2 but kills it. There is another barb nearby that is redlined from someone else. I set BW to 10% in 40 turns to see if we contact someone and can buy it instead. MOTH is acting as MP.
IBT - We get some walls on our Cave. We don't see anyone else. I realize if the barb was redlined it is because it killed someone else's unit.
2850(3) - zzz
IBT - Granary>Worker
2800(4) - MM for a little more gold. Worker >W.
IBT - Barb next to R&L is killed by a Mongols Warrior.
2750(5) - The Mongols have 256G, BW, Masonry, Alphabet, The Wheel, Mysticism and Communications (and therfore Writing) with Japan, Carthage, China, Iroquois, and India! They also have 2 cities. They won
t sell anything.
IBT - Worker (named Durkz) >settler
2710(6) - Turn research off to try and buy BW once Mongols sell our contacts. I also send MOTH back out to try and find someone ourselves. R&L keeps Mongols in sight as we don't want them to walk into Entremont. Durkz>S.
2670(7) - MM Entre for more gold from the Silks.
2630(8) - R&L Following Mongol Warrior towards west.
IBT - Mongol heads east.
2590(9) - MOTH finds a Game in the South and the coast. MM Entremont for growth in 1 and should be Settler in 1 with growth. Lux back to 40%.
IBT - Settler>Temple.
2550(10) - MM for production for a turn. MOTH confims the coast and spots a Dyes. R&L finds a Chinese warrior. They are down CB and Pottery and up BW and Masonry. Durkz>SW
Firaxis score: 92
Jason score: 31
The Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_BC2550_01.SAV
Post flight - I have left the Settler with Movement available so that we can decide the next city location.
We are in a big tech hole to the Mongols already. I did not trade with China, but I think we need to do thaat right away (before the mongols sell them something).
The lack of BG delays the settler pump by 1 turn (turn 43 instead of 42).
Upcoming work to get the settler pump running:
Durkz - Mine the tile he just moved to (and then road it).
eqWorker - Finish the chop, then Mine the Game tile.
Labor allocation:
Dotmap:
I think we should should consider settling at RCP4 instead of 3. There seem to be better sites at RCP 4 IMHO.
2950(1) - Adjust slider as Pottery is due in 1. We get +1 gpt.
IBT- Pottery comes in.
2900(2) - Switch Heroic Epic to Granary in 2 turns. R&L attacks barb camp and loses 2 but kills it. There is another barb nearby that is redlined from someone else. I set BW to 10% in 40 turns to see if we contact someone and can buy it instead. MOTH is acting as MP.
IBT - We get some walls on our Cave. We don't see anyone else. I realize if the barb was redlined it is because it killed someone else's unit.
2850(3) - zzz
IBT - Granary>Worker
2800(4) - MM for a little more gold. Worker >W.
IBT - Barb next to R&L is killed by a Mongols Warrior.
2750(5) - The Mongols have 256G, BW, Masonry, Alphabet, The Wheel, Mysticism and Communications (and therfore Writing) with Japan, Carthage, China, Iroquois, and India! They also have 2 cities. They won
t sell anything.
IBT - Worker (named Durkz) >settler
2710(6) - Turn research off to try and buy BW once Mongols sell our contacts. I also send MOTH back out to try and find someone ourselves. R&L keeps Mongols in sight as we don't want them to walk into Entremont. Durkz>S.
2670(7) - MM Entre for more gold from the Silks.
2630(8) - R&L Following Mongol Warrior towards west.
IBT - Mongol heads east.
2590(9) - MOTH finds a Game in the South and the coast. MM Entremont for growth in 1 and should be Settler in 1 with growth. Lux back to 40%.
IBT - Settler>Temple.
2550(10) - MM for production for a turn. MOTH confims the coast and spots a Dyes. R&L finds a Chinese warrior. They are down CB and Pottery and up BW and Masonry. Durkz>SW
Firaxis score: 92
Jason score: 31
The Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_BC2550_01.SAV
Post flight - I have left the Settler with Movement available so that we can decide the next city location.
We are in a big tech hole to the Mongols already. I did not trade with China, but I think we need to do thaat right away (before the mongols sell them something).
The lack of BG delays the settler pump by 1 turn (turn 43 instead of 42).
Upcoming work to get the settler pump running:
Durkz - Mine the tile he just moved to (and then road it).
eqWorker - Finish the chop, then Mine the Game tile.
Labor allocation:
Code:
turn # tiles worked
30 Game, bgm2
31 Wheat, bgm2
32 no changes - forest on growth
33 Wheat, Game, bgm2
34 no changes - temple finishes - start settler
35 no changes - forest on growth - chop will finish this turn
36 Wheat,Game, bgm2, any grass
37 no changes - forest on growth - settler finishes - start setter
38 Wheat,bgm2,forest - intentionally slow food.
39 no changes
40 Wheat,Game, bgm, forest - forest on growth
41 Wheat,Game,bgm2,mined grass
42 no changes - forest on growth
43 Wheat,Game,bgm2 - first turn of settler pump
44 no changes - forest on growth
45 Wheat,Game,bgm2,mined grass
46 no changes - forest on growthDotmap:
I think we should should consider settling at RCP4 instead of 3. There seem to be better sites at RCP 4 IMHO.
MOTH
Emperor
Looking at the dotmap again, I guess that RCP 3 isn't too bad. 5 and 6 are both on BG, but the locations are worth it (5 gets the cow and game in range and 6 gets a river). I also think location 2.5 is better than either 2 or 3 and spaces out the ring nicely. I'm also not sure how much of RCP7 will fit nicely. We may want to consider RCP6 for the second ring.
Oh, and I lost track of the mongol warrior. He was last seen 2 tiles dead east from RowandLive's current position. He could be 5 turns from reaching Entremont. If he shows up we might have to toss the Temple and build an archer or warrior.
Its bedtime for me now.
Rotation:
Durkz
MOTH -Just played
rrau - Up
jb1964 - On deck
Elmarae
RowAndLive
Oh, and I lost track of the mongol warrior. He was last seen 2 tiles dead east from RowandLive's current position. He could be 5 turns from reaching Entremont. If he shows up we might have to toss the Temple and build an archer or warrior.
Its bedtime for me now.
Rotation:
Durkz
MOTH -Just played
rrau - Up
jb1964 - On deck
Elmarae
RowAndLive
MOTH are the blue circles the ring 4 sites? I usually use mapstat and don't count them out by hand 
.
I like the blue circle N of the wheat between the pink 1 & 2 circles for our next city as it would also be able to get settlers out fairly quickly.
I got it, but won't play until tomorrow night after work. This will give everyone time to vote for the next city site.
. I like the blue circle N of the wheat between the pink 1 & 2 circles for our next city as it would also be able to get settlers out fairly quickly.
I got it, but won't play until tomorrow night after work. This will give everyone time to vote for the next city site.
MOTH
Emperor
The blue were supposed to be rcp 4 sites, but I screwed up the 2 in the north. SE or SW of the one you indicated looks good to me. I should really use Crp Rings more often...
MOTH
Emperor
Updated dot map:
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
RCP4 seems to have plenty of good river placement options.
RCP3 has the advantage of being more defensible.
I'm not thrilled about placing any city on a BG unless the surrounding territory gives us a favorable spt capacity without it.
RCP3 has the advantage of being more defensible.
I'm not thrilled about placing any city on a BG unless the surrounding territory gives us a favorable spt capacity without it.
