Sunday's PAX talk (with summary of the info)

[nokmirt]

Of course it would be overkill to represent them together, and I never suggested that. But why in the hell would they represent them together in the first place? That's completely irrational and illogical. Okay, now do you finally get it? I hope this clears things up.

Never said you suggested it. I already answered your question.

That's completely irrational and illogical. Perhaps it is, I'll give you that. However, on here there are many wild and crazy ideas!

About the last part your not very good at the sarcasm thing are you?

Good thing, CFC's bandwidth can really get overloaded at times.

Thanks for your on topic input Mr. Helper!

I have an idea let's call the new civ Swedeland!

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yeah, my only point is making a Swedeland is like making a Framany.

I think we're in agreement now, so there's no real point continuing this subject.

 

[nokmirt]

Yeah, my only point is making a Swedeland is like making a Framany.

I think we're in agreement now, so there's no real point continuing this subject.

Yes, what's life without a sense of humor right? Let's move on!

 

[elprofesor]

Yeah, my only point is making a Swedeland is like making a Framany.

Although Germance would be a completely rational choice. I mean, the gallemands are very nice people, it would be wrong not to include them

It's normal that people get weird ideas when there's a civ called "Denmark-Norway" in the game, though...

 

[Olleus]

Because they cannot create Denmark, Sweden, and Finland it would be OVERKILL! OKAY NOW DO YOU FINALLY GET IT???? Sweden and Finland would have to be represented together, if you wanted Finland to be represented. It however does not have to be included. I hope this clears things up.

But why on earth must Finland and Sweden both be represented?

The only argument you gave was that otherwise finnish players would not have their country represented - which is closer to tautology than an argument.

There are 193 countries in the world currently, and unlikely to be more than 40 Civs in any civ game. Does that mean every civ should be a mash of ~5 different countries, just so everyone can feel good about themselves?

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Do you not have anything else to discuss from this video? -> Other direction please.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

I would like to know what is the Hunnic symbol if it is relevant to this thread.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think it's a maroon sunburst on a gray field.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Do you have a name or a stiry related to it ?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I have no clue regarding its significance. I thought you wanted to know what it looked like.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Thank you anyway !

 

[Optional]

It was in the video, I can't tell you anything about it, though:

 

[Guandao]

Maybe, it's a sun symbol.
Did the Turkic peoples worship a sun god?

 

[MARDUK80]

BTW, it might be worth considering one of the translations for the name (like Hackapell) so as to not scare us Americans

I don't think Borg shoudl spread religion as far, I think it should be about 5-8 hexes.

Good ideas. Thanks.

I have made updated Swedish Civ Concept, please do comment.

1. Under Gustavus Adolphus, Sweden occupied the territory that is Finland, which contained Finnish peoples.
2. Even though they did not occupy the territory during WWII, (insert Finnish unit) comes from that Finnish territory.
3. You can represent Finland this way as part of Sweden.

I think combining them this way is ultimately unsatisfying. It downplays their individual accomplishments by nonsensically linking them when they weren't linked. Denmark-Norway uses stuff from both when they were connected.

Agreed. As much as I would love (dying to see) the Finnish Civ in CiV, I think, Sweden has a better chance to be included and I would like to see it to represent Finland somehow as well (as it definitely deserves when we have about 500 years of mutual history together). But this is off topic and I would like to take this discussion to the Civ5 Civilizations/Leaders Wanted thread.

 

[MARDUK80]

I think they should have Finland somehow build the Mannerheim line in CiV, man did they give those Soviets a drubbing in WW2. Sure they made peace and lost 10% of their territory, but they put up a noble determined fight.

"The Soviet forces had more than three times as many soldiers as the Finns, thirty times as many aircraft, and a hundred times as many tanks."

Soviet losses in the Winter War 1939

126,875 dead or missing
188,671 wounded, injured or burned
5,572 captured
3,543 tanks
261–515 aircraft
323,000 total casualties in about four and a half months of fighting.

Excellent suggestion.
I have made some Finnish Civ ideas along with Mannerheim Line typish UI; Korsu. See here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10725515&postcount=10

 

[nokmirt]

Excellent suggestion.
I have made some Finnish Civ ideas along with Mannerheim Line typish UI; Korsu. See here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10725515&postcount=10

That is an excellent write up about A Finnish civ. I did not know that Tolkien's LOTR saga was based on Finnish culture. Well that's what I love about these forums. Something new to learn everyday. Kalevala is it? I will have to learn more about this.

 

[K0alabear]

I don't believe Sweden and Finland would be mixed together to suggest that Sweden did not represent itself as a civ, or that the focus of the civ was not Sweden. Sweden would just borrow some Finnish attribute akin to Denmark-Norway. Granted Denmark-Norway was a real political union, as opposed to Sweden-Finland, Finnish cavalry being utilised by the Swedish - during the time when Sweden held sovereignty over the area of Finland - is iconic enough that it would be plauseable to include them. This would likely be the closest Finland would get to being represented in civ, beyond Helsinki as a City-State, because Finland was for much of its history a dominion of either Sweden or Russia, and although its achievements against the Soviets are notable, was not a regional superpower in of itself - so if Sweden were not included, it is very unlikely Finland would be. And of course, if we're talking the fit of Sweden over Finland in this expansion, Sweden takes the cake. That doesn't mean Sweden would have any distinctly Finnish attributes - but its the best those who want Finland in the game can hope for.

Personally, I feel that Sweden already has two iconic possibilities for unique units: the Leather Cannon and the Carolean. However, from what we're heard, a lot of the new civs seem to be taking two unique units over one and a building/improvement, so I would rather that Sweden only have the one - which would be dependant, of course, on whether their leader is Gustav Adolphus or Karl.

Yes these are nice thoughts. Finland was a part of Sweden and hell, they mostly spoke swedish themselves so it is logical that Sweden is represented instead of Finland. And Overall in history, Sweden was the first to organize and they just conquered this wild Finland of mine . And in the later times yes, Finland was even part of Russia so, there's not much finnish own history. But I feel finnish could be represented as UU or something. Because "Sweden-Finland" was a major power in 17th century.

 

[MARDUK80]

That is an excellent write up about A Finnish civ. I did not know that Tolkien's LOTR saga was based on Finnish culture. Well that's what I love about these forums. Something new to learn everyday. Kalevala is it? I will have to learn more about this.

Thank you!

Yes, perhaps "inspired" would be more accurate choice of words:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien#Influences

"Tolkien also acknowledged several non-Germanic influences or sources for some of his stories and ideas. Sophocles' play Oedipus the King he cited as inspiring elements of The Silmarillion and The Children of Húrin. In addition, Tolkien first read William Forsell Kirby's translation of the Finnish national epic, the Kalevala, while attending King Edward's School. He described its character of Väinämöinen as one of his influences for Gandalf the Grey. The Kalevala's antihero Kullervo was further described as an inspiration for Turin Turambar. Dimitra Fimi, Douglas A. Anderson, John Garth, and many other prominent Tolkien scholars believe that Tolkien also drew influence from a variety of Celtic (Irish, Scottish and Welsh) history and legends. However, after the Silmarillion manuscript was rejected, in part for its "eye-splitting" Celtic names, Tolkien denied their Celtic origin."

Heh, if no Finnish civilization, unit or such, at least we have been recognized in one Wonder: http://www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/BUILDING_NATIONAL_EPIC.aspx


Links worth to check out:

http://uralica.com/earlyfin.htm
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/christy/32/frnjtre.html
http://dickens.fi/kalevala.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevala
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Väinämöinen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kullervo
http://www.pekkaervast.net/ (select your language from the drop down menu. Books section has lots of Kalevala based writings.)

 

[Kimuyama]

But a Hakkapeliitta (so many double letters in finnish, hard to keep track of them all, and I'm half Finn and live in a town with a large finnish minority!), would be an accurate and finnish unit to be used by a swedish civ, as has been pointed out.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Let's move this to the suggest new Civs thread in the subforum. I don't think anyone has a problem with the Hackapell (less scary German version of the Finnish name with less vowels ) as a Swedish unit. The original debate was representing the Fins in World War II and calling it Sweden.