The Deity Challenge Lineup - Game #8 - Mongolia

[stormtrooper412]

Hey nice one. Look at those guys snowballing out of control, makes me even more glad I rolled Keshiks and stomped them to death

 

[Arenel]

After my last miserable attempt at DomV with Zulu and a detour to a couple of cultural victories, I've decided to try conquer the world again

Spoiler :

Settled in place and was immediately forward-settled by Monty and England.



WTF they are surrounding me!



I've managed to build ToA, Zeus and Oracle and close Honor. Monty was the first to go (the Inca suggested to plot against him together, so I agreed) and right in time too because I just had time to return my forces back to protect the capital from the backstabbing Elisabeth. Here's there is already nothing left of her army and an advance on London is starting. Longbowmen are scary, I tell you



So here I am at turn 191, taken England and Monty and one good Attila city (hate mountains) and liberated a city state. Went 2 more policies in commerce and managed to get out of unhappiness. For some time my economy was running at -44 gold, but as I was warring I never went below 0 We're friends with Inca, everybody else is cautious and I wonder why. I have started only one war so far Keshiks are still impressive, most of them with logistics, range and healing on the go I guess I'll take out Attila and then maybe Inca? IDK. Dynamite is close



As I'm a lame warmonger usually I'm quite pleased with my progress yet. Comments are welcome

 

[stormtrooper412]

I might not be the perfect military adviser but I have to notice it took you quite a while to start warring. In my game (and I'm a lame warmonger), I spammed chariots like mad since they upgrade to Keshiks, took out the neighbors early and then Keshiks went on a rampage south.

Not sure you'll have an easy finish now. You *need* artillery and you're gonna have serious trouble breaking through the pair ahead of you and the pair further east

 

[Arenel]

I might not be the perfect military adviser but I have to notice it took you quite a while to start warring. In my game (and I'm a lame warmonger), I spammed chariots like mad since they upgrade to Keshiks, took out the neighbors early and then Keshiks went on a rampage south.

Not sure you'll have an easy finish now. You *need* artillery and you're gonna have serious trouble breaking through the pair ahead of you and the pair further east

Well, as it seems I'm an even lamer warmonger and I find it very difficult to start early, with no full honor and special units. I never seem to have enough money and/or production And I haven't even considered pre-building chariots... Good thought for the next time, thanks!

I think I'm 1.5 technology from artillery and a GS is coming to help me with this Then I'll continue to aircrafts, I love playing them... Anyway, it doesn't look very bad yet, even with a slow start like I had. We'll see how it goes...

 

[stormtrooper412]

War rolls better if you roll initiative

 

[consentient]

You are building wonders. This is a horrific waste of your hammers if the aim is Domination. Have you read my guide? One of the key steps states "only build buildings if you need them". You don't NEED ToA, Zeus, Oracle. They can be nice after you capture them, but ST is right: build CAs, upgrade them, then wipe the map. In my play through of this map, I needed Artillery to finish off Casimir, but most people finished the map with Keshik spam.

 

[Arenel]

You are building wonders. This is a horrific waste of your hammers if the aim is Domination. Have you read my guide? One of the key steps states "only build buildings if you need them". You don't NEED ToA, Zeus, Oracle. They can be nice after you capture them, but ST is right: build CAs, upgrade them, then wipe the map. In my play through of this map, I needed Artillery to finish off Casimir, but most people finished the map with Keshik spam.

I did read you guide (great work, BTW! ) but I was kinda not sure if I want to war from the beginning... Also, old habits die hard BTW, one of the wonders was with GE, so not such a waste I'll try to go by your guide next time. Or in this replay, if they finally kill me

 

[stormtrooper412]

well as I see it, easiest way is that you either start warring with Chariots if they're good themselves (Egypt, Huns) or they upgrade into good (Mongolia, Arabia), or Archer -> CB rush to have them upgraded to XBs for the meaty big push, unless China or England where you can allow yourself to wait out to their UUs and blindside the enemy regardless. Either way, yeah consentient's guide is very spot on

 

[consentient]

Even if you don't war from the beginning, you absolutely don't build stuff like Wonders or useless buildings. Build units, and get ready to attack. But if you wait in this game, you risk having Monty get his Jaguars super-promoted, and you risk Liz getting her UU. What everyone did in this game, which is really successful, is to wipe out the neighbours with CAs and then upgrade and go kill everyone else.

 

[peddroelm]

@Arenel watch the first 2 episodes of this playlist for an example

 

[Arenel]

Okay, I give up on this attempt at DomV

Spoiler :

You were right, I'm too slow in my contest, and the guys around me are already too developed to take them out with any reasonable speed and efficiency. I reached artillery and took Attila's capital, only to see it go to Inca the next turn because I was at smth like -34 happiness, and that's with two mercantile CSs allied!! Next time I'll do the chariot rush thing! The only good thing is that I've survived for much longer than in the Zulu game, so I guess there's SOME progress

@Arenel watch the first 2 episodes of this playlist for an example

Thanks, I will!

 

[adcarrymaokai]

You should try the Mongolia Scenario to get a feel of how strong Keshiks are (you get them at the start) and how to conquer fast.

 

[stormtrooper412]

or wait out til the Mongolia ICL map is posted

 

[adcarrymaokai]

So I am playing this map for the first time. Moved settler West on the hill. Next turn Monty drops a city exactly 4 tiles away. I burn it around t45, and capture London on t59 with Chariot Archers. Aztec cap will be a bit harder to get...

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Keshiks are so op, but I somehow forgot that you can't build Horsemen after Chivalry. Welp, Scouts to the rescue!

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

Yeah, I only had one Horseman in my recent Mongolia game. When I replayed it I made sure to build 2!

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Range-Logistics-Accuracy-Barrage-March-Covers Keshiks can still take on cities with 80 defense. Whoa. Dropped all my gold in unit-purchase because was expecting some backstabs. Wasn't wrong, but managed to squeeze a t194 Dom win before AI's took their capitals back.

 

[claudiupb]

T179 Domination Win

This is my fastest win so far!

Spoiler :

The early game was pretty standard, 2 scouts, monument after (I skipped the shrine, no time for a religion). I got a faith ruin pretty fast, so picked the pantheon with faith from salt figuring I would also have some iron around (but I didn't). I didn't get a religion, but it wasn't such a big deal. Beelined the Wheel, then Trapping, and after that Philosophy, and of course Chivalry. After Chivalry it didn't really matter, but I did get Education, and beelined Dynamite. I also bulbed Fertilizer, to get in the industrial era faster.

I went liberty, and didn't build any settler. I just planted one expo from the free one. I didn't really see the point in building a 3rd city. After finishing Liberty I opened Commerce, and finished it eventually.

After building a water mill, I started building Chariot Archers in both cities until I had 5-6. NC was pretty early for me, but I was faster because I only had 2 cities (late 60s I think). I built Oracle, because I already had plenty of CAs at the time, but did not bother with any other wonder, even though after building my army, my cities did not have anything better to do. The liberty finisher was a scientist, for an academy.

I took 2 cities from England pretty fast (expo + Capital), but razed one. England was so close, they were practically begging to be conquered.

The Aztecs were next. They forward settled me pretty bad, so I just razed all the cities on the way to the capital.

After that I went for Greece, but I was pretty delayed because of the rough terrain. They had tons of units, but luckily the timing was right with Chivlary, so I came with an additional army of Keshiks (that was meant for the Inca), so I didn't lose my experienced Chariot Archers. After taking the first Greek city, I upgraded all CAs, and it was smooth from there. Razed all conquered Greek cities, but stopped at Athens. They were beginning to become quite strong in the end, but they never attacked me.

Inca went surprisingly fast, considering the rough terrain, and the fact they had Great Wall. Khesiks are amazing with the 5 movement. Having basically 2 armies, I split them and attacked from 2 directions. I kept all their cities, because I had plenty of happiness, plus some of them were pretty good.

The Huns fell the fastest, they actually did not warmonger at all in the game, i think they were aiming for culture, because I captured 3 great works from them. They were pretty exposed in the open terrain, and did not have any army, because they were also fighting Poland, who was actually beginning to become a runaway.

Poland was crazy strong, they ended up having both Himenji Castle and Red Fort. Not to mention the very annoying winged hussars. Because I did not keep them busy all game long, they were very strong, and this actually delayed my conquest at least 10-15 turns. I had to plant so many citadels that I fought without a great general bonus many times. In the beginning I actually wasted a couple of Great Generals because I considered I had too many, and did not want to pay maintenance.

In the beginning I captured cities easy, but it soon became a stalemate due to a combination of rough terrain + them having Himenji Castle. I needed 2-3 Khesiks just to kill a single Polish unit. I split up my army, but the south front was losing, so I pushed in the north and got Lodz. This allowed me to start a war with Portugal while I tried to tech artillery for Poland. One army was fighting the Portuguese (very easy war they still had CBs), while the other was advancing slow and steady south towards the capital. I got Krakow which was immediately north of the capital, and started building roads so I could fire with all Khesiks at Warsaw until I eventually brought it down to 0 HP. I actually did not need artillery, even though I managed to research it a turn earlier. I think I could have saved a turn if I remembered to upgrade my Horsemen to Calvary, but it doesn't really matter now.

 

[fimbul]

Keshik assisted T167 Dom V. Small writeup (doubt is different to what anyone else has done), would have been faster but i underestimated the ability of Keshiks. Godly units.

Spoiler :

Went for 4 city liberty, assisted by labour from Lizzy, Ur, and dear Monty. Tried to train Chariot archers on Ur but didnt managed to get logistics on any of them so I gather i must be doing exp training wrongly.

Helped by caravans from the two near neighbours, Chivalry was finished on T92, 11 Keshiks upgraded and started the rampage. Declared on Monty, and after finding out how good Keshiks were, promptly declared on Lizzy as well. Lizzy had built the great wall but as she went piety her border growth was garbage so it really didnt matter. London fell T110.

Saw Monty building Machu Pichu in his second city, waited 10 turns for him to finish, but he never did and then the Inca built it. I was outraged so i allied the CS to the north and persuaded it to capture Monty's last city.

Sold York and Monty's second city to Attila, since he seems to raze everything. warring is so much easier when Attila is around to raze every unwanted city for you.

Declared on Greece (Athens T123), then Inca (Cusco T133), and then Attila (court T141). Some difficulty around the Incan forest (lost 1 Keshik...), but none of them really put up a struggle. Attila built the SoZ in a separate city from his court, but i forgave him since he was razing cities for me.

At this point i wasnt sure if i could take Poland- he had 2 of Portugal's cities and 2 of Attila's as well. Warsaw was deeply burried with Himeji castle, Red Fort, and his winged hussars were out and about. I was teching to artillery but thankfully keshiks with range and logistics can slowly do many many 4 damage attacks to grind him down. Warsaw fell on T158 and at this point the game was over.

Moved everything up to Portgual, declared T165 and Lisbon fell T167.

Social Policies: Full liberty, working thru commerce but never finished it.

Religion: never bothered, got Lizzy's religion but had no faith generator so pagodas were slow to come.

Some Pictures: Monty's brave settler captured by barbarians (later enslaved as a worker to build salt mines), victory scene, mongolian homeland.

 

[Sclb]

T176 DomV
Mongolia UU is extremely strong, and one of my fastest DomV ever. Could've finished earlier, but I was having extremely unhappiness (-35 at peak) and had to deal with some rebels while cities burn down.

Spoiler :

3 city start, full honor (right side first), then full commerce.
Started war on chariots, started with English since I stole workers from her, and she marched a carpet and declared first. Cleared her carpet, then easily took her expo York which I kept for one of my core city. Next declared on Monty and took capital and burning expos, and planing 1 city later at the spot to deny Incas from settling close to my capital. Upgraded to Keshiks after taking Monty's capital.

NC on 77
London 81
Tenochtitlan 104

Incans planted a city south, and had GW, so good idea to skip them until last. So marched my army to the west passing by Belgrade and Wittenburg to reach Poland. Declared war jointly with Huns, and later offered DoF also. I would start to sell every unwanted city to Huns so that Attila could raze them for me. Taking out Poland early ensures that his UU won't be a problem. Kept Krakow, which had Petra. After taking his capital, DoW on Maria and easily took all her cities and wiped her out. At this point, everyone denounces me anyway, except for Huns which didn't care since they were in the same war. Meanwhile Poland was eliminated by Attila.

Warsaw 124
Lisbon 134

While western war was happening, marched 2nd army east, through Kabul and Lhasa which was allied. Didn't have enough to buy Vilnius when I DoW Alex. 2nd army took their time killing Greek units, including UU to gain xp. He has many cities, but I took all but one and sold everything except Athens to Attila who razed them all.

Athens 140

At this point, I decided to not DoW Incans from the east side, since Cusco is exposed to the west side, and Attila has started GG bombing him west of Cusco. It took a while to get the eastern army to the west side, since Kyzyl was in the way. Luckily was at war with Riga, so periodically the CS would lose units and leave gaps to pass through. Once both armies in position, started attack on Huns. Western main army pushed towards Attila's court, and eastern 2nd army pushed N and NW through Riga. Once I burned down Attila's cities except capital and 1 expo for GG bombing Cusco which had GW, I took Cusco within 2 turns. Could've won sooner if I captured Cusco during war with Huns, but I wasn't sure if -35 unhappiness would be a good idea. Turns out it was easily doable much sooner.

Attila's court 164
Cusco 176

At the end, I have 2 armies with total of 21 Keshiks, 2 horsemans, also have some extra Keshiks, Pikemans, scouts, Landsknechts for defense.
Didn't focus on science after NC, so universities extremely late if built at all.

Spoiler :