weakest triats

[Lucky Charms]

This is a hard choice, but I have to say Expansive is the worst. It is not that it is useless, it just doesn't stand up to the other traits. Creative is poor too, but I have a soft spot for it as it stops necessary builds of culture buildings when you could be building a forge.

 

[turquoiseninja]

Nice point about the Spiruatal trait Antilogic. That trait is AWESOME for adabtiblity. Building a wonder in your capital? Adopt Bueracracy untill its done. War weariness killing your economy and your war machine? Adobt Police State. Spiruatal let's you quickly switch your strategy to adabt to the current scenario.

 

[PedalPower]

Expansive should be made better by giving a happy bonus too. After all, the main complaint of citizens is "It's too crowded!", so it would make sense in game terms. It would be good if it gave +2 happy and +3 health.

 

[turquoiseninja]

Expansive should be made better by giving a happy bonus too. After all, the main complaint of citizens is "It's too crowded!", so it would make sense in game terms. It would be good if it gave +2 happy and +3 health.

That would be called rape. Happy bonus is what we have Charismatic trait for.
(No offense though)

 

[Meatbuster]

Now is there a Cha/Exp leader?

I personally found a use for all of the traits. But the trait that I don't use much is... Industrious! I'm personally not a fan of wonders, usually I only need Oracle OR Pyramids, and the Great Library... and don't bother with anything else unless I have a solid tech/military lead.

 

[achilleszero]

Now is there a Cha/Exp leader?

I personally found a use for all of the traits. But the trait that I don't use much is... Industrious! I'm personally not a fan of wonders, usually I only need Oracle OR Pyramids, and the Great Library... and don't bother with anything else unless I have a solid tech/military lead.

This is the second thread Ive answered this in , Washington is now CHA/EXP

 

[Meatbuster]

Great. Now all you need is a city with 5-6 flood plains.

 

[napoleonbee]

I bet 70% of the votes here were cast for traits the voter hasn't even played, but that they think looks bad on paper. Don't diss expansive until you've worked those cheap granaries to their maximum benefit, and don't sneeze at protective until you've played China, Churchill or Japan. To be honest it seems a little weak with Saladin and Wang Kon, though.

 

[Meatbuster]

Protective is very good in my opinion, since it helps survive early barbs when you have no horse and copper.

I'll add the merits of Protective with Sally and Wang Kon
1. Draft or whip instant defenders (with city garrison I and drill I even, starting Renaissance era) to fend off a sneak attack (Saladin even lets you switch to Slavery and/or Nationalism quickly from peacetime civics like Caste System or Free Speech)
2. Imagine an army of only Hwacha and protective Longbows assaulting the enemy long before they get Macemen and Knights... if they don't have horses, they will be powerless to stop you. And even if they have Horses, once you've taken one of their cities, it will be almost impossible for them to take it back.

 

[braindrain]

Expansive is just about my favorite along with organised. In addition to their bonuses, they also have two cheap quality buildings apiece. Put the two together and you can save a ton of time and population building/whipping these four buildings.

Sure early city growth is usually hindered by happiness rather than health, but happiness is pretty easy to manage with hereditary rule and the whip...and with those cheap granaries, you have no problem replenishing the lost population quickly.

Spiritual is another trait that gets a bad rep...if you don't play to its strengths, then it is pretty weak, but if you use it to its full potential, it can be one of the handiest and most noticable traits availiable. Spiritual seems to be stronger in epic and marathon games where you can easily have three or more turns of anarchy. I'm sure it evens out with the shorter games in the long run, but when you gotta sit and watch your empire in anarcy for three or more turns, it seems like an eternity!

 

[Antilogic]

I haven't played as China, Churchill, or Japan yet, but I have played as Saladin. The game is going quite well--looks like I'll just need to wrap it up in the Industrial era.

Although, Robo Kai, I have to disagree with you on one of your points. Slavery is not just a wartime civic--it is the civic for use in peacetime as well, especially if you are not reliant on specialists.


EDIT: Typo!

 

[Meatbuster]

It's usually the Slavery (if not Nationhood) that saves cities from the backstab anyway, something that may not happen if I'm on Caste System. So I just used the backstab scenario to make a point.

Yeah, let's all clarify it for the readers!


In addition, I am tempted to say Nationhood is a cheap replacement for Slavery when Emancipation rolls around.

So, no one's complaining I said I don't find Industrious to be useful? I'm surprised...

 

[Lucky Charms]

Industrious is great if you're a builder, absolutely fantastic, but if you are more of a warmonger then it is quite poor, though you do get halp speed forges...

Also, I think Protective would be fantastic, I think Wang Kon is a great leader, he is unlikely to lose much cities with the Protective traits, and Financial would allow him to tech along rapidly. I find quite a bit of synergy in that combo, I wouldn't like invading a very advanced, technologically advanced empire, specially with Drill I and City Garrison I.

Edit: Typo

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

...And as far as great generals go...well i find them to be pretty lack-luster...their bennefits are ok...but not really game breaking..i'ld rather get any other great person before a great general, and i find that i don't need more than one or two in a whole game, so quicker general emergence is not needed.

No offense, but... have you lost your mind ? Without GG, I can't build Heroic Epic/Westpoint (without a CHM leader). With 3 more (hey you can even include the 1 from fascism), you can in one city (as was posted above) have barracks(+3xp), westpoint(+4xp), stables(+2xp for mounted units), heroic epic (+100% unit build), theocracy/vassalage(+4xp), and 3 generals(+6xp). This gives us a military FACTORY with all units gaining +17xp at their birth. Horse units will have +19xp at birth. holy crap that's every unit with 4 times promotions! Not only that, but if you have CHM traits, you are only 1 battle (mounted units) from another promo, 3 for all other units. Unstoppable.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I'm not even that definite...Expansive's +3 health is a lot better than it was before. Some keen eyes also mentioned the bonus to producing granaries and harbors...

If I had to pick a least useful trait, I would say Creative--sure, the early land grab is great, but what about the other abilities? Quick production on theatres? They are already quick! Colosseums...maybe, but those are my last ditch happiness resorts, right there.

And, if you happen to get writing quickly, you can expand your borders by whipping libraries and monuments. Or you could get Stonehenge.

And anyone who voted Spiritual...seriously, you guys are missing out. Try having all your cities with your state religion building buildings with Organized Religion, then immediately switch to Vassalage-Theocracy and produce troops everywhere. Then, once they are all completed, switch back to, say, Bureaucracy and Organized Religion. Try switching your government--load up on specialists, then switch to Representation to max out the bonus. Then, switch back to field workers, and go for a different government.

It's a lot of micromanagement, but you have so many more options as a Spiritual leader than you do as a normal one...it's a strong trait when used right.

Much agreed. The no anarchy is clutch especially if someone declares war on you and you've gone with Free Religion and Free Speech for good diplomacy. A quick switch to Vasalage/Theocracy should do the trick! I personally think that any Spiritual civ should start with mysticism, tho. Am I wrong here?

 

[gdgrimm]

You know, I had a really hard time answering this poll. I really find useful things for almost all these traits.

Creative -- it's usefullness definitely falls off quickly, but it's benefit in the very early land grab is soooooo big.
Protective -- I actually think this one is better than Aggressive. And Toku gets the joy of both! It allows you to build/whip decent city garrisons without having to use a Barracks.

In the end, I ended up voting Philosophical. It has a huge benefit in getting the first few GP's much earlier than others. But after that, the benefit starts tailing off (much like Creative). And a non-Philosophical civ can get fast GP's by early/mid game via Parthenon/Epic and a solid GPP farm.

 

[kristopherb]

No offense, but... have you lost your mind ? Without GG, I can't build Heroic Epic/Westpoint (without a CHM leader). With 3 more (hey you can even include the 1 from fascism), you can in one city (as was posted above) have barracks(+3xp), westpoint(+4xp), stables(+2xp for mounted units), heroic epic (+100% unit build), theocracy/vassalage(+4xp), and 3 generals(+6xp). This gives us a military FACTORY with all units gaining +17xp at their birth. Horse units will have +19xp at birth. holy crap that's every unit with 4 times promotions! Not only that, but if you have CHM traits, you are only 1 battle (mounted units) from another promo, 3 for all other units. Unstoppable.

couple it redcoats who boi theres no way to stop them from churchill theres no way stop them
plus you left out pentagon

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

^^Yeah, i don't always get pentagon. If you do get the Pent, then forget it. All mounted units +5 promos at birth, all other units +4 promos at birth and 1 battle from a fifth. Oh yeah, with Drydock, You'll get +4 promos on NAVAL UNITS!!!! YAY! Yeah, the redcoat is unstoppable with these upgrades. I modded my own leader to be AGG+CHM. It may have been overkill but wtf? I don't have any financial help. Still have to go through anarchy. No health or happiness bonuses. I think its a fair pair of traits!

 

[Phyr_Negator]

Expansive is a paragon of uselessness. Played whole pre-Warlords CivIV with Expansive leader - you have to compensate with skill or aggression lack of other useful trait to compete with opponents. Simply mentioned "city growth limit" by health is a fiction, and do not make any trouble cuz even some of resources providing you with health can pump it's level up to 13-14 wich is more than enough at that level. The only positive moment is cheap granary, but still not helpin a lot to compete with other traits. Harbours are laughable - useless building with useless bonus.

 

[wioneo]

Isn't there still a limit to civic switches for Spiritual civs? You can't, say switch to vassalage for 1 turn, and then switch out?