Weapons and Armour - evolution and use - till modern times

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

Hi, i opened this thread having the premission from senior moderators and forumers alike.
The aim is to bring a nice and comfortable chat to this game site, civ3, regarding the developpment and usage of arms and armour on battlefield and fortifications. though my real time job is actually about military architecture, i thought i could give a hand in creating a small thread to sound like a well argued unit request. i hope we will see this time behind the scene and help unit creators refine their units and also make these units more sensible to the lay eyes.

PS i hope we will all have a good time. you can also request units from the spoken period here, post images and help improve the general knowledge !

 

[ShiroKobbure]

I hope to see some nice pictures, and information that might inspire me

 

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

i will like to ask if someone knows something about the soft armour or padding in the far east - japan, china, thailand, and so on ...

 

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

padding 18 century chinese

Spoiler :

this would be a link http://forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=280&start=15

what do you people say would it be usefull in battle - 18 century ??

 

[Vinduu]

Silk armor, used by Mongols, Chinese, Japanese and Koreans. Even Thailand police used it as bullet proof vest thus prompted the US government to create a new material from genetically modified goat that produce artificial spider silk. The material have more stopping power than any material that we know currently.

 

[7ronin]

I don't know much about this. Was the silk used as backing for armor scales or plates or was some form of hardened or treated silk used as armor in its own right? I do know that silk jerseys were seen as improving survival from arrow wounds. The silk reduced penetration depth, made the arrow easier to withdraw, and promoted healing (less chance of infection from foreign matter in the wound). In any case, I can't see any wide spread use of silk given its expense. Maybe it was for upper class warriors only

 

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

well, i saw a film documentary mentioning that gingis han gave his men each a slik shirt and if a arrow would penetrate through armour it would take also a piece of silk with it, so the removal of arrow would be easy.

silk is demonstrated to stop a bullet without hurting the shot one, but it has to be many layers - hundreds..

 

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

also a question - how where this peasants armoured, a japanse jaquerie movement actually. and maybe we could request a unit from shiro to invoke these troubled times in the japanese history

ps if anybody knows or has pictures about these wars please post... no pictures with flash allowed...

 

[creamcheese]

Silk armor, used by Mongols, Chinese, Japanese and Koreans. Even Thailand police used it as bullet proof vest thus prompted the US government to create a new material from genetically modified goat that produce artificial spider silk. The material have more stopping power than any material that we know currently.

The goat thing was spider silk as you noted, not from silkworms like the silk used for clothing. Also spider silk has high toughness, not strength or "stopping power". (stopping power is a term that means the amount of energy a bullet imparts to a target, "stopping" the target in its' tracks or knocking it down). Silk is not usually used for bulletproof vests because it is expensive and materials like kevlar have higher tensile strength. It is light though, which is a plus.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

jaquerie?

 

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

sorry, mispelling, it is actually Jacquerie

Spoiler :

this photo was actually shot in korea but it resembles the noble caracter and attitude of the hard working japanese peasentry

 

[ShiroKobbure]

can you explain it in english?

 

[creamcheese]

can you explain it in english?

Wiki gives me this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquerie

Also:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jacquerie

 

[ShiroKobbure]

so he wants a japanese warrior peasant unit?

 

[creamcheese]

so he wants a japanese warrior peasant unit?

I guess... Probably no armor and a bamboo spear. Like in The Seven Samurai.

 

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

well, people, you are wright i want a japanese ikko ikki peasant with bamboo spear or flail, but he can use some sort of lighter armour...found on the battlefield...the rest is the creator's imagination.

ps i think there should be some revolted peasents around, and i am not speaking about japan only, but other civilisations, especially the feudal ones...there were quite a few peasant wars from england to hungary...so one could not ignore them. so there must be the whole line of armoured units and also the complete background of their origin, i think.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

you might find more people willing to listen to your requests if you don't talk in code.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52344
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49251
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108431
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=61852
And theres a slinger you might consider looks like a peasant
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=104377

 

[Wolfshade]

A lesson of kindness from Shiro, haha. He's great, you know.
JG, I already told in another thread - look in the database. There are a lot of cool units for various times. Some of them may be outdated looking from today's height, but something is always better than nothing. I paged all categories 4 times already, so I remember approximately what's here.

 

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

wolfshade, i agree with you, i scanned the whole database several times, i knew all those units, believe me, but i wanted something from shiro to go with his new unit line. so wolfshade did not get me this time, nor the next time...i must know by now every unit by heart...
kinboat's unit do not really match this new unit lines, they walk like someone is sleeping in da house...i was on the wave when the new design appeared - it was sandris...

but i think we are off topic, which could be very nice chat - so we might devagate any time we want, but let me ask a question - where there numwerous peasant wars in china or india and how where those people dressed for war....

 

[creamcheese]

wolfshade, i agree with you, i scanned the whole database several times, i knew all those units, believe me, but i wanted something from shiro to go with his new unit line. so wolfshade did not get me this time, nor the next time...i must know by now every unit by heart...
kinboat's unit do not really match this new unit lines, they walk like someone is sleeping in da house...i was on the wave when the new design appeared - it was sandris...

but i think we are off topic, which could be very nice chat - so we might devagate any time we want, but let me ask a question - where there numwerous peasant wars in china or india and how where those people dressed for war....

Probably how most peasants are, with bamboo/wood/metal weapons (often converted from farm implements (pitchforks, scythes, hoes, clubs, poles, spears) and little or no armor. It was too expensive to get anything else, and you can do a surprising amount of damage with a bamboo spear. They might have looted armour from anyone they killed. Just look at the Libyan Revolution for ideas about what a mass uprising looks like. They have varied and ad-hoc weapons and little training.