Aqueduct Roads

Shackel · May 2, 2009

This is something that I found kind of strange, and stupid at the same time.

Deserts are basically a death sentence for ANYONE who ends up spawning near them. It either cuts their country in half, or dramatically decreases the possibilities and strength of the country.

But, there are entire civilizations built in the desert(Egypt), and one of the most known cities in Nevada, Las Vegas, which completely relies on, guess what?

Aqueducts. Right now, they only add health, which doesn't make much sense, as they are supplying fresh water(FARMS).

I think that aqueducts should be changed into a type of road, that would allow a desert to be irrigated, maybe around Metal Casting/Masonry or so. It wouldn't allow improvements where the aqueduct is until later, where it could be underground.

This would allow deserts to actually be USED, instead of having a spot that is COMPLETELY empty of all civs.

Ramesses · May 3, 2009

Sounds like an excellent idea. It would get rid of those ridiculously long and winding aqueducts. The effective range of an aqueduct should probably be limited, to encourage more strategic building.

One step further: the same concept could be applied to the Industrial Era and beyond, with the addition of power grids and oil pipelines.

Shackel · May 3, 2009

I think the power grids and oil pipelines are implied.

IamJohn · May 3, 2009

I don't, the goal is not to make all of the game map useful in the terrain building sense, if we simply paved over everything there would be much less strateigic depth to the map. Sure people get shafted at times, but unless you're playing multiplayer that's generally a good thing since it makes the map much more interesting, you have the underdogs attempting to rise up, the overwhelming monster empires attempting to conquer the world. sure you don't want things to unbalanced, but variety is a necessary thing.

Hail · May 4, 2009

i'm against aqueduct roads, powerlines, pipelines. roads is the all in 1. if pillaged, then that would also disconnect "aqueduct roads", powerlines, pipelines from that city. as for deserts, i think that either make then workable to the extent of allowing mining on them or return [limited] terraforming. for example: irrigating deserts turns them into plains. the excuse, that making ai take advantage of terraforming is difficult [so will not be done], and therefore will give player an advantage, does not suffice.

Shackel · May 4, 2009

Well, this would ignore the major cities, like Las Vegas.

There are many maps which just leave a giant, unpopulated, hole in the middle of the country. With those thoughts, we should just wipe Egypt off of the game, as it would be completely illogical.

Roads do not give food, or power, or fresh water. The fact that the aqueducts and roads are separate kind of makes the "All-in-one" theory null and void.

AI CAN be changed. Many games have created dynamic AIs, and it should not be difficult to change the AI to use an aqueduct road as it would, say, a farm.

How is the goal NOT to make the entire world usable? If you can make tundra usable(biology), then why not be able to make Deserts usable?

Ai Shizuka · May 4, 2009

You bring in real-life examples, but those are exceptions. I hope you aren't serious when you talk about Egypt.
Sahara, Gobi, Kalahari, Great Victoria Desert? No human life there.

Maybe the option to turn a 1-tile desert into a plain tile would make sense, if there's fresh water nearby.

Hail · May 5, 2009

roads being all in 1 is an abstraction. there must be balance between realism and gameplay, but instant pillaging should be removed. make it 2-3 turns and during that time the pillaging unit does not receive defensive bonuses if attacked.

Shackel · May 5, 2009

Las Vegas is one of my "main" examples, and it's probably as close to a normal CivIV city as you can get(a bunch of "World Wonders" in one place.

).

The Nile alone, in Civ4, would cause the civ(Egypt) in question to just fail due to a lack of production. There has to be SOMETHING.

rysmiel · May 6, 2009

Shackel said:
There are many maps which just leave a giant, unpopulated, hole in the middle of the country. With those thoughts, we should just wipe Egypt off of the game, as it would be completely illogical.

It's worth bearing in mind that there was a lot less Sahara desert at the time that Egypt was the breadbasket of the Roman Empire than there is now, so modern Egypt's not a reasonable comparison here. I would be inclined to say the solution here is to make floodplains really really productive, even if they occur in a desert.

How is the goal NOT to make the entire world usable? If you can make tundra usable(biology), then why not be able to make Deserts usable?

I am entirely in agreement here; every square should be usable eventually.

rysmiel · May 6, 2009

IamJohn said:
I don't, the goal is not to make all of the game map useful in the terrain building sense,

How not ?

Make all the terrain usable, but in different ways, over time. Make it a choice as to what one develops first. If you like, balance worker costs so that people will never be able to get around to developing everything. But don't annoy the players by putting in unusable terrain.

if we simply paved over everything there would be much less strateigic depth to the map.

Not if you have to choose how to develop every square. If you prefer the aesthetic of squares that never get developed, give them a "parkland" bonus for the city whose radius thy are in.

Shackel · May 6, 2009

I can see two other solutions, one being the "Diplomatic Borders", "Productive Rivers", or transferring hammers/two cities working together.

cardgame · May 9, 2009

Floodplains are some of the best tiles you can have.

3 food and 1 gold with no improvements, or a powerhouse of both food and gold if you make a cottage. Later in the game it becomes a triple producer; 3 gold, 2 production, and 3 food! (watermills)

With a farm it's 4 food and 5 with biology, enough to power a specialist economy pretty easily if you have just a couple of floodplains nearby. Even if you are surrounded by desert or other unworkable tiles you can turn that city into an economic powerhouse for either SE or hybrid, and an excellent whipping city also with so much food. Whip out a settler and get a production city going if that's what you need.

Floodplains are great tiles, the only drawback being their unhealthiness.

Xellos-_^ · May 9, 2009

rysmiel said:
How not ?

Make all the terrain usable, but in different ways, over time. Make it a choice as to what one develops first. If you like, balance worker costs so that people will never be able to get around to developing everything. But don't annoy the players by putting in unusable terrain.

Not if you have to choose how to develop every square. If you prefer the aesthetic of squares that never get developed, give them a "parkland" bonus for the city whose radius thy are in.

i agree, deserts should be to be turn into parks. Not all parks are forest, Artic wildlife refugee and Death Valley National Park.

cardgame said:
Floodplains are some of the best tiles you can have.

3 food and 1 gold with no improvements, or a powerhouse of both food and gold if you make a cottage. Later in the game it becomes a triple producer; 3 gold, 2 production, and 3 food! (watermills)

With a farm it's 4 food and 5 with biology, enough to power a specialist economy pretty easily if you have just a couple of floodplains nearby. Even if you are surrounded by desert or other unworkable tiles you can turn that city into an economic powerhouse for either SE or hybrid, and an excellent whipping city also with so much food. Whip out a settler and get a production city going if that's what you need.

Floodplains are great tiles, the only drawback being their unhealthiness.

and the occasional flood and speaking of unheathness why are Jungle unhealth? Jungles should produce more Health then normal forest.

Ramesses · May 9, 2009

Xellos-_^ said:
i agree, deserts should be to be turn into parks. Not all parks are forest, Artic wildlife refugee and Death Valley National Park.

and the occasional flood and speaking of unheathness why are Jungle unhealth? Jungles should produce more Health then normal forest.

Malaria. Yellow Fever. Lethally poisonous bugs and snakes. Parasites. Yep, a Jungle sounds like a perfectly healthy environment. :rolleyes:

Xellos-_^ · May 9, 2009

Ramesses said:
Malaria. Yellow Fever. Lethally poisonous bugs and snakes. Parasites. Yep, a Jungle sounds like a perfectly healthy environment.

you get snakes everywhere but jungles also provide rare medicine, fruits and convert carbon to oxygen.

Ramesses · May 10, 2009

Xellos-_^ said:
you get snakes everywhere but jungles

I'm... not sure what to say to this.

also provide rare medicine, fruits

Those are resources which happen to exist in the jungle.

and convert carbon to oxygen.

The rampant diseases and parasites kinda offset those benefits for mammals.

EmperorFool · May 10, 2009

Xellos-_^ said:
Jungles also . . . convert carbon to oxygen.

This is on a global scale much like they combat global warming. Jungles are breeding grounds for many diseases as mentioned above.

Ramesses said:
I'm... not sure what to say to this.

You missed the (missing) comma:

Xellos-_^ said:
You get snakes everywhere, but jungles also provide . . .

Shackel · May 10, 2009

You're right.

I guess I forgot all about watermills, however, what about cities in the middle of the desert?

They have to have a chance. 3:

Xellos-_^ · May 10, 2009

EmperorFool said:
This is on a global scale much like they combat global warming. Jungles are breeding grounds for many diseases as mentioned above.

You missed the (missing) comma:

anyone got the grammer book? i don't think there is a "," in front of a "but"

Aqueduct Roads

Still a Settler D:

Ruler. Visionary. Pimp.

Still a Settler D:

(was)?

Satan's minion

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King

Satan's minion

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Emperor

Emperor

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Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

Prince

Ruler. Visionary. Pimp.

Prince

Ruler. Visionary. Pimp.

Deity

Still a Settler D:

Prince

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