[GS] 【1.0.0.314】another trading bug (really impressive one) (Should be Fixed -- Hotfix)

[xiaoyu101]

If you have saves with some quick write-ups on reproductions, we can take a look at these quickly (aside from producing repro's internally). Thank you!

THIS BUG DO exsits IN EVERY SINGLE GAME.I collected some saves which include all difficult levels and some different leaders.IN FACT,as long as you meet the first AI,the bug comes and all through the whole game.
Try to exchange 3GPT for 7or 8GPT,and then repeat this again and again until AI’s treasury is empty.This also leads to AI tends to give the player truly large amout of GPT (22.i.e)for small things like a horse or an iron or 2 diplomatic favour.(before the update AI would like to pay 20 DF for no more than 200G )
This gamebreaking problem made some of my friends even refuse to update.BEG a HOTFIX~
PS.we can exchange gold in cash in a fairly price,but the GPT is really weird.

 

[AntiPater]

THIS BUG DO exsits IN EVERY SINGLE GAME.I collected some saves which include all difficult levels and some different leaders.IN FACT,as long as you meet the first AI,the bug comes and all through the whole game.
Try to exchange 3GPT for 7or 8GPT,and then repeat this again and again until AI’s treasury is empty.This also leads to AI tends to give the player truly large amout of GPT (22.i.e)for small things like a horse or an iron or 2 diplomatic favour.(before the update AI would like to pay 20 DF for no more than 200G )
This gamebreaking problem made some of my friends even refuse to update.BEG a HOTFIX~
PS.we can exchange gold in cash in a fairly price,but the GPT is really weird.

On the same note , this game breaking bug also cause human player to require 39 GPT or more, to just trade for opponent luxury resource. It affects dual way. Possibly due to this bug some opponents are super rich and some are super poor , and this together with the fact that they build many encampments and no campuses makes more than half of the AIs have very low military scores while a few AI have high scores. The previous patch is fairly ok , although current patch notes talks about more aggressive AI but them building encampments here and there will gimp their troops amount . Also with no campus , how are they going to upgrade their troops fast enough. I observed these playing a couple of games, hope the devs take some notice . Thanks for reading.

 

[Ferocitus]

The problem is probably a failure to cast to double precision.

Iron : Gold Per Turn(pt) + Lump'o'gold.
1 : 2pt + 1
2 : 5pt + 2
3 : 7pt + 3
4 : 10pt + 4
5 : 23 pt + 1
6 : 23 pt + 2
...
10 : 23pt + 62

And then back to 1pt +1 after that, e.g.:
21 : 1 pt + 1
...
150 : 1pt + 1.

The saved game is just before I made those offers.
No mods used at all.

 

[ghost88]

One AI is willing to give me 25 gpt for open borders.

To me this isn't broken. When the AI offers everything it owns then I might consider a one turn Open Borders treaty, otherwise the AI isn't paying enough for its units getting in the way of my units.
I can agree that the amounts quoted in these posts are OP but if the AI wants something it should pay at least if not more than it would ask if I asked for the trade. This has been my biggest gripe about the trade system in all the Civilization games.
However I never trade Open Borders, Strategic resources, agree to friendships, or alliances as I see no benefit to be gained, I am sure that many of you will try to explain how these things will help in Cultural, Science, Diplo victories (and I'm sure they do) but I play to kill time when I have nothing important to spend it on, so only play for Score and Dom Victories.

 

[dshirk]

The problem is probably a failure to cast to double precision.

Iron : Gold Per Turn(pt) + Lump'o'gold.
1 : 2pt + 1
2 : 5pt + 2
3 : 7pt + 3
4 : 10pt + 4
5 : 23 pt + 1
6 : 23 pt + 2
...
10 : 23pt + 62

And then back to 1pt +1 after that, e.g.:
21 : 1 pt + 1
...
150 : 1pt + 1.

This is an excellent save, thank you. It looks like we have most of the issues addressed but there are still a couple oddities we're looking at.

 

[dshirk]

THIS BUG DO exsits IN EVERY SINGLE GAME.I collected some saves which include all difficult levels and some different leaders.IN FACT,as long as you meet the first AI,the bug comes and all through the whole game.
Try to exchange 3GPT for 7or 8GPT,and then repeat this again and again until AI’s treasury is empty.This also leads to AI tends to give the player truly large amout of GPT (22.i.e)for small things like a horse or an iron or 2 diplomatic favour.(before the update AI would like to pay 20 DF for no more than 200G )
This gamebreaking problem made some of my friends even refuse to update.BEG a HOTFIX~
PS.we can exchange gold in cash in a fairly price,but the GPT is really weird.

Thanks for these! We can no longer reproduce the issue internally, so progress!

 

[SilverCard]

Another one:

1 Iron for 18 Iron

Only Lutaro accepts this offer.

 

[dshirk]

Another one:

1 Iron for 18 Iron

Only Lutaro accepts this offer.

Thanks for this. Squashed.

 

[Gregolution]

Impressive support for your great game Firaxis thanks !

 

[Morgawr]

Hello - we were discussing this bug in a separate thread and wanted to make sure you squashed the same bug. Here's the description of the bug I encountered and the save file after I had made the trades, with each giving generous 20gpt+ for horses:


- I had access to horse and my three AI neighbors did not. They were all willing to give me generous amounts of GPT (~20 gpt) to buy 20 horses. I call it generous because it’s only turn 50 and selling 60 horses for 60 gpt gave my economy a huge boost. Pre patch I would have gotten mostly lump sum gold but they were willing to give 100 gold max and didn’t want to trade lump some but gpt instead.


- There is a separate legacy trade bug where if you offer something and ask the AI "what will you give me?" and they give only 1 gold. But if you repeat the same offer and put 100 gold on the table and say "make this deal work" they give you a correct deal. Looks like this bug is still not fixed either, however This is NOT the bug we are talking about here. That legacy bug at least has a work around whereas this NEW post patch "AI showering you with generous gpt" bug has no work around


Hope this helps! Thank you devs for hearing us out. ETA for when we can expect patch/hotfix ?

 

[Velkhar]

I play Marathon, so maybe these issues are specific to Marathon, but I wish we could disable trades with and between AI entirely. Multiplayer is more or less broken without a "gentlemen's agreement" to not abuse the AI via trade mechanics.

For instance, last night I encountered a scenario where multiple AI would offer me 75g for 1 Iron, but next to nothing for 2 or more Iron. It was trivial to bankrupt all those AI for about 40 Iron offered during 40 separate trades.

The AI doesn't seem to understand Net Present Value (NPV), overvaluing GPT considerably. Frequently it will offer, say, 150g for a trade, but only 1 or 2 GPT for the same trade. Gold now is definitely worth more than gold in the future. A realistic valuation would require the AI to offer 7, 8, or maybe more GPT instead of 150g.

Lastly, the AI values diplomatic favor extremely high, offering 5-10g per DF. Considering the amount of DF required during voting periods to influence a vote (100+ easy), the AI is paying a lot for relatively little impact.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I'm gutted. can't continue my game with this system which is really frustrating because i love the new map search and pins. I'm dying to play but playing currently feels like I'm cheating

So you just have to make a rule that you only trade for certain amounts.
You have to not abuse the bug is all... I see no reason why you can't play your game out with those rules?
I understand it sucks and that it is fun to abuse the broken game but if it annoys you all you have to do is trade the way we all know that trade is supposed to work.

a few months!? I seriously hope not. This is a game breaking bug, I can't continue with this game being offered this much money, the win will mean nothing.

I don't understand why you have to accept the OP Trade?
Are you not able to adjust the trade for say 1 Lux for 7gpt?

Anyways... the game is broken and has always been broken.
Especially Trade with the AI.

 

[Paweł Jarczyk]

Bug is more serious.
One iron+one horse+one other resource = 30-110 gpt from enemy. You could repeat it until he will not has gold do it with all enemy, and you has +1200 gold per turn in midgame

 

[Battlehelm043]

I would say an additional trade bug is regarding Iron. If you don't have a source of iron and trade for it prior to having a unit tech which requires iron, it vanishes and never quantifies as stored. This is of course after iron is discovered upon the map. It lead me to resource sink as I tried to stock pile iron for swordsman upgrades prior to researching swordsman tech.

 

[Browd]

Do you have a save file demonstrating this?

 

[Paweł Jarczyk]

On this save you could trade for infinity gold

 

[Battlehelm043]

Do you have a save file demonstrating this?

I will try to replicate it as soon as I can.

 

[Minou]

People who say you can just not abuse this bug may be missing a key point that the AIs also trade with other AIs, which can cause some to have huge amounts of gold and others none and mess up the balance of a game even if the player never trades at all.

But really I think ignoring / “not abusing” it is not an easy solution because you still want to trade most games and the player has no way to know what to set as the price for a “fair” trade.

 

[Browd]

I think even the most clueless of players would recognize that 30 gpt is not a fair price for 10 gpt.

 

[Minou]

Obviously. But what is fair for one luxury? 5gpt? 10gpt? 15gpt?

This is not a simple thing to avoid like not trading a Great Work the turn it is created for thousands of gold.

I don’t even play GOTM (not enough time) but I imagine this is a bigger problem for competitive play.