[GS] [1.0.0.290] Apostles losing promotion options over time

[Nuworm]

This post is about a similar bug that was fixed in the winter 2018 patch. I have seen this bug happen on both the current 1.0.0.290 patch and last patch.

When you build a large number of apostles over time, eventually new apostles will start to lose options for promotions (down from 3 to 2 or 1). I have seen the number of promotions go from 1 or 2 options back up to 3 on the next built apostle. However, sometimes you will no longer be able to promote future apostles, which I suspect is if the number of options reaches 0. The options might also sometimes appear as the same promotion options over and over, but this is not a constant with my testing.

I have done a number of test games on the last patch and a couple on the current patch to try to gain insight on why this bug happens. This bug appears for me with Mont St Michel built and not built. It appears first usually when apostles cost around 500 faith, but it might occur earlier or later. Most of the time I run out of promotion options sometime around when apostles cost over 1000 faith.

In the attached save game you can reproduce this bug, if you buy an apostle in Ra-Kedet, end the turn, and then promote the apostle next turn. It should then only have two promotion options.

 

[Pfeffersack]

This is still an issue with NFP 1.0.1.501 - I haven't experienced yet a case where no promotion options were given, but I'm often having only two choices in my current game:

I get that there is probably some kind of "promotion pool" to avoid people creating armies of Disputants, but suddenly getting less than 3 choices feels weird and unexpected. Why not just offering then the 3 promotions you have picked least as human player, if your past choices were too one-sided ? It also makes Yerevan suzerainship needlessly even more powerful than it would be without this issue.


To reproduce with the attached save:

1. Purchase an Apostle in Timbuktu
2. End turn
3. Select the Apostle you have bought in the turn before,

 

[Infixo]

Isn’t it the same with spies? I mean, when you create new ones after some time the variety of promotions is reduced. Like you basically end up with only “do x as 2 levels more”. And I think eventually there are only 2 to choose from. It is like each promotion can be earned some max number, and in some cases they run out quickly. In summary - i am not sure if this a bug or just undocumented way of how those promos work.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Isn’t it the same with spies? I mean, when you create new ones after some time the variety of promotions is reduced. Like you basically end up with only “do x as 2 levels more”. And I think eventually there are only 2 to choose from. It is like each promotion can be earned some max number, and in some cases they run out quickly. In summary - i am not sure if this a bug or just undocumented way of how those promos work.

Your are probably right that the promotions spies are offered may depend on past choices, but I haven't experienced it yet that I got less than 3 choices at all. Same for Rockbands (which are the third unit type using the "non-treed"-promotion model).

Just to be clear once more: I'm not opposed to limiting access to certain promotion you overpicked before, but I don't see a need to deprive one from a third choice at all.

Moreover, the way it works currently seems to allow an exploit, which achieves in the end what the tystem is trying to prevent obviously - getting tons of Apostles with one promotion type:

There is a simple explanation for this (which results in a potential exploit).

When offering promotions to Apostles, the game does cycle through all the available promotions but it only counts those that you have actually taken (not those that were previously given as options that were foregone or haven't been selected yet).

Also, even if you have Mont St. Michel, one of the two promotions can still be the Martyr promotion, in which case that isn't offered and you only have 1 option.

So if you have already taken all of the Apostle promotions once except for Medic (and possibly Martyr), then you can create 100 Apostles and they will keep getting the same option.

The exploit is to use this as a way to keep generating Apostles with a given promotion you want, like Debater. For the first several Apostles you create (including the 2 you use for extra beliefs and the 1 to launch an Inquisition), you choose the CRAPPY promotions. Once you have chosen each of the promotions except the one you want, then spam a whole bunch of Apostles but do NOT take their promotion yet. Only once you've built enough that you want, will you have all of them take the promotion. In one of my games I ended up with a dozen Debaters (without Yerevan) this way!

Source: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ted-with-same-promotion.607261/#post-14612362