1.22 development

[Xyth]

I should note that i play at a rather low difficulty Warlord.

Ok here is how it works, and so far i have had two games (both Greek Civ) with no civil wars.

Once i have picked Slavery, i check the dissent page, if a city is working towards less then loyal i use Slavery to hurry production. Sometimes what ever is next in the que, sometimes i pick something that increases healthiness or happiness.

This often results in return to loyalty or at least increases the number of turns that it takes to reach stable.

I'm not sure if this is how its supposed to work, but that is the effect.

The only effects Slavery should have on dissent is from the civic itself (high dissent), and dissent from the unhappiness generated by whipping. I'm guessing that dissent is lower in the city because you're killing most of your unhappy citizens. Check the dissent advisor - which column is showing lower dissent when you whip?

Overall dissent is pretty low on Warlord difficulty, wouldn't surprise me that it's possible to have games without civil wars there with the current settings.

Also i noticed that when i have a Vassal and they have a CW that creates a new Civ that new Civ declares war on me and then is also at war with my other Vassals if any.

Seems to make for some very short lifespans for these 'rebel' civs.

I'm currently working on ways to make breakaway civilizations less 'diplomatically isolated'. Sometimes the AI is going to be stupid no matter what though.

 

[Nightstar]

Some of these may have already been caught and corrected in 1.21.1.

1. A city revolting to barb status inheriting a UU.
2. A city captured from a Philosophical leader retaining its free specialists.
3. The Corporation advisor glitching when under the Social Welfare civic (might also happen with the Environmentalism civic, but I switched to them at the same time and Happiness is listed before Health).

 

[Xyth]

1. A city revolting to barb status inheriting a UU.

Should be fixed in 1.21.1.

2. A city captured from a Philosophical leader retaining its free specialists.

Strange, I thought specialist are usually cleared on capture. I'm probably going to redesign Philosophical again, but I'll have to investigate this for Financial.

3. The Corporation advisor glitching when under the Social Welfare civic (might also happen with the Environmentalism civic, but I switched to them at the same time and Happiness is listed before Health).

The error is related to Social Welfare but a near identical error will also occur for Enviromentalism. Fixed for the next version.

 

[gatinho65]

I think the Faith and Tenets ideas are excellent, very much looking forward to seeing them in the game. Not everyone seems to like playing with religions but I think it adds something vital (although I'm an atheist in RL lol) so just letting you know there are people hoping these complex additions are worth your time to develop.

I also have noticed that the rebel civ's seems to be very short lived or become vassals of the original civ within only 2-3 turns. And almost all of them seem to start out more hostile to me than any other existing civ. I tend to play for cultural victories and work to make friends early on using lots of trade, so at the time of the rebellions it is odd to see the infant civ's so hostile to me, especially in light of their struggle to survive and the fact that all other civ's including their original civ was at worst cautious towards me. Was this intended?

It might make it interesting to have the new civ's look for new friends right away rather than make enemies, especially if there are some shared traits/civics. Only one single time did a friendly rebel civ reach out to me within one or two turns of rebelling for help or friendly relations, even offering to convert to my religion. This rebel civ was about as far away from me as possible, no shared borders and no open border nearby civ's either. Not sure if that was an intended factor. The rebel civ's that spawn barbarians attacking me (and not the original civ) have all been on my borders.

I've been playing Warlord level. Hope the details of how things are working out in game are helpful.

 

[wanderm]

I'm enjoying 1.21.1, and really appreciate the evolution of the mod.

That said the thought occurred to me that I'd like to both try the (possibly radical) reworking of Faith in 1.22 and easily go back to 1.21.1 given the system is, I suppose, closer to BTS.

Will it be possible to have both versions available concurrently, rather than swapping HR folders?

Perhaps I'm misreading what is on the agenda?

 

[Xyth]

I think the Faith and Tenets ideas are excellent, very much looking forward to seeing them in the game. Not everyone seems to like playing with religions but I think it adds something vital (although I'm an atheist in RL lol) so just letting you know there are people hoping these complex additions are worth your time to develop.

I also have noticed that the rebel civ's seems to be very short lived or become vassals of the original civ within only 2-3 turns. And almost all of them seem to start out more hostile to me than any other existing civ. I tend to play for cultural victories and work to make friends early on using lots of trade, so at the time of the rebellions it is odd to see the infant civ's so hostile to me, especially in light of their struggle to survive and the fact that all other civ's including their original civ was at worst cautious towards me. Was this intended?

Rebel civs start out with a -5 attitude penalty towards their parent civilization. If another civilization had a positive attitude towards the parent civilization, they are more likely to have a negative attitude to the rebel civilization. And vice-versa: if a civilization has a negative attitude towards the parent civilization, they are more likely to have a positive attitude towards the rebel civilization.

So because you're on good terms with the parent civilization, the rebel civs dislike you, preferring to cosy up with civs that also dislike the parent civ.

It might make it interesting to have the new civ's look for new friends right away rather than make enemies, especially if there are some shared traits/civics. Only one single time did a friendly rebel civ reach out to me within one or two turns of rebelling for help or friendly relations, even offering to convert to my religion. This rebel civ was about as far away from me as possible, no shared borders and no open border nearby civ's either. Not sure if that was an intended factor. The rebel civ's that spawn barbarians attacking me (and not the original civ) have all been on my borders.

I've been playing Warlord level. Hope the details of how things are working out in game are helpful.

I didn't want to make it too complex to begin with so distance, religion, and other such factors are not considered yet. A lot of room for improvement and nuance here, so suggestions like these are welcome.

That said the thought occurred to me that I'd like to both try the (possibly radical) reworking of Faith in 1.22 and easily go back to 1.21.1 given the system is, I suppose, closer to BTS.

Will it be possible to have both versions available concurrently, rather than swapping HR folders?

Yes, but a few things need to be renamed and/or edited. I can guide you through it when the time comes.

Perhaps I'm misreading what is on the agenda?

It's all still evolving so don't read too much into anything yet. I'm a fair way into coding it all, but in the process I inevitably come across design flaws and technical limitations that cause me to rethink certain aspects. Once I've ironed out the most significant of these issues I'll post more detailed information.

 

[AluminumKnight]

I think the Faith and Tenets ideas are excellent, very much looking forward to seeing them in the game. Not everyone seems to like playing with religions but I think it adds something vital (although I'm an atheist in RL lol) so just letting you know there are people hoping these complex additions are worth your time to develop.

I just want to echo this sentiment. This mod is extremely well done and I love all the improvements you've been making (islands? Cool!).

About the rebel civs, Xyth had mentioned that the rebellions were intended mostly to slow down expansive civs, not necessarily always create a new civilization. That being said, I had a great experience with a rebellion I wanted to share:

In my Monarch game (I'm playing Americans), I shared a small continent with Portugal and the Ottomans. The continent was shaped like a fat C, with Portugal and I on the "ends" of the C and the Ottomans in the middle basically as far away from me as possible. Noticing the Ottomans expanding rapidly, I made an effort to expand as quickly as possible up the coast along the inside edge of the C, trying to deny them access to my coast of the continent.

I did get a border with Portugal, and even pushed them back a city to secure a city containing gold and Uluru . Then, the Ottomans DOW'd Portugal and I figured I was in trouble. So I also DOW'd and took two cities straight north to effectively cut off the Portuguese heartland (quickly becoming Turkish) from the existing Turkish territory.

I had cut off ~4-5 cities from the Turkish main territory, and when revolution broke out in the former Portuguese territory, I bit the bullet and revoked Open Borders. It actually worked! The Persians took the 4-5 cities from the Ottomans and at least evened my score with them. Now I must plot the destruction of Turkey with my new friends

 

[The_Athenian]

I love hearing the story from AluminumKnight, and i have a similar positive experience from the new Civil War feature.

I usually play on the Huge map of Earth. One of the issues going back to vanilla Civ IV BTS, is that inevitably China becomes a massive hyper-power. The only way in the past to control this was to ensure there were enough other Asian civs around them at game start to keep them in check. The extra competition meant that some Civs would get quickly gobbled up, and when you are limited to only 18 civs on the real world map it really sucks to lose a couple early on.

Now with civil wars, as China grows dominant new Civs pop up. I just had a game where I had barely even made contact with China, and it was already starting to run away with the game. Suddenly…civil war, eventually Tibet AND Korea popped up. Both countries far friendlier to me than China, and provided me with useful open border agreements.

What I have started to do is begin the game with just 16 starting civs, early civilizations, Celts, Egyptian, Greeks and so on. As history progresses these nations experience civil wars and inevitably new, more modern nations begin to spring up. Which is pretty awesome! Thanks Xyth!

When do you think 1.22 will be ready? I am incredibly excited for the new religion system.

 

[Xyth]

Thanks for sharing your civil war experiences. Just the sort of effects I hoped civil wars would bring to the game. Always some tweaks and improvements that can be made, but overall I'm really pleased with how it's turn out.

When do you think 1.22 will be ready? I am incredibly excited for the new religion system.

I'm hoping to have the first beta out for testing next month.

 

[Skidizzle]

For what it's worth, I went into the XML and revived the pirate unit with no ill effects.

One thing I do miss from the domestic advisor is seeing the given experience to unit types in the military tab.

 

[Xyth]

One thing I do miss from the domestic advisor is seeing the given experience to unit types in the military tab.

I intend to eventually split the current 'Overview' tab into 'Society' and 'Military', which will make room for info such as that.

 

[cpease61]

Referring back to when i mentioned Slavery promotes Loyalty. Near as i can tell the major effect of using Slavey to hurry production is it reduces unhealthiness due to overcrowding which in turn deceases dissent

 

[The_Athenian]

Cpease,

When playing odyssey length games you can frequently get cities of 20+ pop very early on, and there are no buildings to mitigate the resulting health and unhappiness. So brutal authoritarian slave conditions is the only way to maintain order.

 

[Nightstar]

I'm still playing a long, slow game with this version, and I just ran into a weird bug with Espionage. Last turn the Espionage screens showed Hannibal having *no* EP output, as if he were in anarchy (though if there was a notice of him switching civics or religion, I can't find it in the event log). Then on the current turn his EP shoots up to *insane* levels, and applies them retroactively at that. Screenshots attached.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I got two errors. The last one went on forever - or as long as I had patience for anyway

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "CvScreensInterface", line 729, in handleInput

  File "CvMainInterface", line 4593, in handleInput

  File "BugOptionsScreen", line 40, in showOptionsScreen

  File "BugCore", line 139, in __getattr__

AttributeError: setShowOptionsKeyReminder
ERR: Python function handleInput failed, module CvScreensInterface
Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "CvScreensInterface", line 774, in forceScreenRedraw

  File "CvMainInterface", line 1058, in redraw

  File "CvMainInterface", line 2455, in updateGameDataStrings

NameError: global name 'localText' is not defined
ERR: Python function forceScreenRedraw failed, module CvScreensInterface
Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "CvScreensInterface", line 774, in forceScreenRedraw

  File "CvMainInterface", line 1058, in redraw

  File "CvMainInterface", line 2455, in updateGameDataStrings

NameError: global name 'localText' is not defined

EDIT I was able to fix it by changing localText to CyTranslator() on line 2455. localText is the BUG version of CyTranslator.

 

[Nightstar]

I got two errors. The last one went on forever - or as long as I had patience for anyway

Was that with this older version, or the more current 1.21.1? If the latter, it should probably be in the thread for that version.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I just downloaded and installed the mod, it is 1.21.1 as far as I can see. OK I'll post there, sorry.

I wanted to look at the graphics for island, atol, reef and coral to see if they were better than what we had in C2C and see what had been done with the goody island idea.

 

[stoferb]

I really like the goody islands being exclusive to islands and atolls, but the problem there is that if it happens to spawn "hostile villagers" I get a CTD. First a bunch of land unit barbarians surround my boat walking on water and then the game crashes. That's something that needs a fix.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I really like the goody islands being exclusive to islands and atolls, but the problem there is that if it happens to spawn "hostile villagers" I get a CTD. First a bunch of land unit barbarians surround my boat walking on water and then the game crashes. That's something that needs a fix.

I reported this and found why the crash is probably happening on the 1.21 thread

 

[Xyth]

I'm still playing a long, slow game with this version, and I just ran into a weird bug with Espionage. Last turn the Espionage screens showed Hannibal having *no* EP output, as if he were in anarchy (though if there was a notice of him switching civics or religion, I can't find it in the event log). Then on the current turn his EP shoots up to *insane* levels, and applies them retroactively at that. Screenshots attached.

Hmm. Does the advisor show Hannibal's EP output returning to more normal levels on subsequent turns? Or does it remain high? Not really sure what could be causing this, but my first instinct is that it's a UI miscalculation of some sort. I've not made any changes to the Espionage Advisor. It's the one from BUG, but I'll probably replace it with Platyping's version at some point.

I got two errors. The last one went on forever - or as long as I had patience for anyway

EDIT I was able to fix it by changing localText to CyTranslator() on line 2455. localText is the BUG version of CyTranslator.

That was indeed the problem. Some files use localText as an alias for CyTranslator(). I prefer the latter and convert files I've been working on to use it, but I missed that particular instance for some reason.

I really like the goody islands being exclusive to islands and atolls, but the problem there is that if it happens to spawn "hostile villagers" I get a CTD. First a bunch of land unit barbarians surround my boat walking on water and then the game crashes. That's something that needs a fix.

I reported this and found why the crash is probably happening on the 1.21 thread

I'd already made patches available for this issue and the one above. I appreciate the report regardless though. For future reference, you can check the Troubleshooting thread when you encounter a bug or a crash. Any 'between version' fixes I make are linked to in the first post. Always worth checking there first.

I wanted to look at the graphics for island, atol, reef and coral to see if they were better than what we had in C2C and see what had been done with the goody island idea.

I haven't looked at C2C for a while, were they better?

Only thing I'm not happy with about my implementation of Goody Huts on Islands is how free units are handled. They're ported to the nearest valid land plot, which is fine if near the coast, but a bit unpredictable and unrealistic if out in the open ocean. I need to go back and do some further refinements to that at some point.