1.23 Released!

[Xyth]

Hmm. I would imagine the same thing can happen in a non-modded play, where a Civ generates a Colony? Has this been approached by any other models?

The bug exists for colonies in unmodded BTS too. Other mods have fixed it via the DLL.

 

[Eucalyptus]

A theocracy is where the head(s) of state is considered to be divine (e.g. Egyptian Pharaohs) or to be the chief intermediary of the divine (e.g. the Pope). There is no definitional requirement to outlaw other religions, and indeed most historical theocracies did not: ancient Egypt, Ghana, early China, Tibet, Angkor (switched between Hinduism and Buddhism quite often, encouraged both) the Toltecs, the Maya, etc. Even Byzantium and the Arab caliphates had long periods of relative tolerance.

I see that we have different perspectives on what a theocracy is. I think of theocracies as the rule of a clergy, so including Isabella and modern Iran but not modern Thailand and pre-war Japan.

 

[jeorgun]

I'd say the Ottomans under the millet system is a pretty good match for the HR theocracy civic. The details aren't exactly the same, but it does have the general principle of "theocracy where non-state religions are given authority within the government".

(long time user first time poster love the mod etc etc)

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

I got one question concerning Earth huge map - not able to find Ngorongoro natural wonder and Baikal lake natural wonder, not even in WB mode, where all others are present - do I need certain technology to discover them? Thanks

 

[Xyth]

I got one question concerning Earth huge map - not able to find Ngorongoro natural wonder and Baikal lake natural wonder, not even in WB mode, where all others are present - do I need certain technology to discover them? Thanks

Neither of those are on the map, Ngorongoro because it is too close to Kilimanjaro, and Lake Baikal because the graphic is much too small for the scale of the map.

 

[Eucalyptus]

Perhaps the following effect is well-known. I only discovered it because of the way in which the Anarchy of Reformations and Revolutions combines.

I have 2 Great Prophets. I want to launch a Golden Age, a Reformation and a Revolution. I am playing on a Massive map, so a standard GA is 24 turns, but I have built the MoM, so I expect 36 turns. Before the Golden Age, I run the Idolatry tenet, so a GA is reduced by 50% in length. The Reformation is to change from Idolatry to Meditation.

So, what is the right order of business?

1. First launch the GA with one Great Prophet, then immediately launch the Reformation with the other. No Anarchy! Then wait 5 turns to 'Revolution' the civics. However, doing this yields a (24 x 150%)/2 = 18-turn GA, because the effect of the Idolatry applies to the calculation. This is a waste of GA turns, so I instead try the following.

2. First launch the Reformation, and reform out of Idolatry. This yields a 9-turn Anarchy. Then immediately launch the 36-turn GA, which cancels the Anarchy. How long must I wait to 'Revolution' the civics? Not 5 turns but 14 turns! The system remembers the length of the Reformation despite cancelling its Anarchy, which seems a fair price for confusing the citizens. But then it adds 5 extra turns of no-Revolution. I'm not sure whether this is 9 + 5 = 14 or ceiling(9 x 150%) = 14 turns. Is this a bug or a feature?

 

[Xyth]

Perhaps the following effect is well-known. I only discovered it because of the way in which the Anarchy of Reformations and Revolutions combines.

I have 2 Great Prophets. I want to launch a Golden Age, a Reformation and a Revolution. I am playing on a Massive map, so a standard GA is 24 turns, but I have built the MoM, so I expect 36 turns. Before the Golden Age, I run the Idolatry tenet, so a GA is reduced by 50% in length. The Reformation is to change from Idolatry to Meditation.

So, what is the right order of business?

1. First launch the GA with one Great Prophet, then immediately launch the Reformation with the other. No Anarchy! Then wait 5 turns to 'Revolution' the civics. However, doing this yields a (24 x 150%)/2 = 18-turn GA, because the effect of the Idolatry applies to the calculation. This is a waste of GA turns, so I instead try the following.

2. First launch the Reformation, and reform out of Idolatry. This yields a 9-turn Anarchy. Then immediately launch the 36-turn GA, which cancels the Anarchy. How long must I wait to 'Revolution' the civics? Not 5 turns but 14 turns! The system remembers the length of the Reformation despite cancelling its Anarchy, which seems a fair price for confusing the citizens. But then it adds 5 extra turns of no-Revolution. I'm not sure whether this is 9 + 5 = 14 or ceiling(9 x 150%) = 14 turns. Is this a bug or a feature?

Working as intended. The Revolution/Reformation cooldown calculation is 5 + AnarchyLength. In situation (1) there is no anarchy so the cooldown is just 5 turns. In situation (2) there are 9 turns of anarchy so this is added to the base 5 to get 14 turns altogether.

 

[Eucalyptus]

Working as intended. The Revolution/Reformation cooldown calculation is 5 + AnarchyLength. In situation (1) there is no anarchy so the cooldown is just 5 turns. In situation (2) there are 9 turns of anarchy so this is added to the base 5 to get 14 turns altogether.

The waiting time seems like a fair price to pay for so much change without Anarchy.

 

[rsab]

Hi Xyth, I detected a mechanic related to liberating cities which I feel it could be improved.

I'm the Nubians, early in the game I've created a Colony (Egyptians) in another continent where there are so many others civs.
Later, I defeated Arabs (which are in the same continent as Egyptians) and they have agreed to become my vassal. So I have a Colony and a Vassal in the same continent and very distanced one from other.
Now, I'm in war with Dradivians. They are placed close to the Arabs (in the same continent). If I take their cities (even the ones they were founded by Arabs) I get the option to Raze, keep in my possession, or give control to the Egyptians which are they very far from the conquered city. I'm missing the option to liberate the city and return the control to the Arabs, which is the most rational option. It seems the Colony is interfering in this.

I don't know if is it possible to improve this.

To be more clear, I'm adding a saved game so you can check yourself. You can move one Heavy Footman to conquer Erbil (founded by Arabs but under Dradivian control), it's only one step.

Thanks!

 

[Xyth]

Hi Xyth, I detected a mechanic related to liberating cities which I feel it could be improved.

I'm the Nubians, early in the game I've created a Colony (Egyptians) in another continent where there are so many others civs.
Later, I defeated Arabs (which are in the same continent as Egyptians) and they have agreed to become my vassal. So I have a Colony and a Vassal in the same continent and very distanced one from other.
Now, I'm in war with Dradivians. They are placed close to the Arabs (in the same continent). If I take their cities (even the ones they were founded by Arabs) I get the option to Raze, keep in my possession, or give control to the Egyptians which are they very far from the conquered city. I'm missing the option to liberate the city and return the control to the Arabs, which is the most rational option. It seems the Colony is interfering in this.

I don't know if is it possible to improve this.

That's something that can only be adjusted in the DLL. I've had a look through the source code but I'm not that familiar with it yet. K-Mod has made a number of relevant changes, but I'm not sure if they would alter this situation or not. Will have to wait and see in 1.24.

 

[Nightstar]

Can you work around it by capturing the city and then gifting it to the Arabs via normal diplomacy?

Also, remember that an involuntary vassal can renounce that status if their population and territory exceed their master's by a certain percentage, so you need to be careful not to give them too much.

 

[rsab]

That's something that can only be adjusted in the DLL. I've had a look through the source code but I'm not that familiar with it yet. K-Mod has made a number of relevant changes, but I'm not sure if they would alter this situation or not. Will have to wait and see in 1.24.

Ok, thanks

Can you work around it by capturing the city and then gifting it to the Arabs via normal diplomacy?

It seems I can not give cities to my vassals

Also, remember that an involuntary vassal can renounce that status if their population and territory exceed their master's by a certain percentage, so you need to be careful not to give them too much.

Yes I know. Actually this city was Arabian when they had agreed to become my vassal, so it would not affect the vassal relation

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

Say Xyth, can you explain this thing I noticed while entering WB and playing as Egypt?

In the center of the first picture a black hole appeared and while scrolling out a person shows up and while scrolling in it disappears?



It was only visible in WB, nor the game itself and only once. Thx

 

[Xyth]

Say Xyth, can you explain this thing I noticed while entering WB and playing as Egypt?



In the center of the first picture a black hole appeared and while scrolling out a person shows up and while scrolling in it disappears?







It was only visible in WB, nor the game itself and only once. Thx

That is bizarre! I've never seen that before and have no idea what it could be. Is it reproducible?

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

I couldn't repeat it, next time I opened WB, it wasn't there.

It must have been kinda superspy I guess

 

[JustAnotherNerd]

Hello, that's really a great mod, so many global changes in a comparison to original, and they are really fine, especially changes to improvements and rebellion system. Rebellion system is awesome indeed.

Meanwhile one of the most important elements of the game remained untouched, I'm talking about nukes. They still cause this global warming, even tho it was renamed in climat change, it does not annul the fact that it is nonsense.
I launched just 3 or 4, but even then I had like 2-3 tiles on my territory (20-25%) turned into desert (or plain if twas grassland) every single turn.
After launching 30-40 twas already like 10 tiles a turn lol. Ofcourse after this game is unplayable, monarch/marathon by the way, almost 1000 turns done for last few days...

It shouldn't work like this.
Well it could cause some nuclear fallout randomly appear on random tiles, and the farther from explosion, the less chance. Becasue air masses able to carry some part of this nuclear dust. Climat change basically is possible, but it's if thousands of rockets were launched, thousands at once. Dust just will cover all the sky completely. It be global effect. But even then is temporal.

Not just like: launched a rocket, get one tile turned into desert, launched another, get the second tile turned into desert lol.
I launched just a few and got punished right away, it's just wrong.

 

[Xyth]

Hello, that's really a great mod, so many global changes in a comparison to original, and they are really fine, especially changes to improvements and rebellion system. Rebellion system is awesome indeed.

Meanwhile one of the most important elements of the game remained untouched, I'm talking about nukes. They still cause this global warming, even tho it was renamed in climat change, it does not annul the fact that it is nonsense.
I launched just 3 or 4, but even then I had like 2-3 tiles on my territory (20-25%) turned into desert (or plain if twas grassland) every single turn.
After launching 30-40 twas already like 10 tiles a turn lol. Ofcourse after this game is unplayable, monarch/marathon by the way, almost 1000 turns done for last few days...

It shouldn't work like this.
Well it could cause some nuclear fallout randomly appear on random tiles, and the farther from explosion, the less chance. Becasue air masses able to carry some part of this nuclear dust. Climat change basically is possible, but it's if thousands of rockets were launched, thousands at once. Dust just will cover all the sky completely. It be global effect. But even then is temporal.

Not just like: launched a rocket, get one tile turned into desert, launched another, get the second tile turned into desert lol.
I launched just a few and got punished right away, it's just wrong.

The current implementation of Climate Change is temporary and I intend to rework it for 1.24, including a review of how it is or isn't affected by nukes.

 

[NBAfan]

How does the faith mechanic work? I'm playing a game and my 2nd city had two free priests that went away after I founded a religion. Is there anything that gives free priests in the early game?

 

[Xyth]

How does the faith mechanic work? I'm playing a game and my 2nd city had two free priests that went away after I founded a religion. Is there anything that gives free priests in the early game?

Your main source of faith in the early game are Cemeteries (and the priest specialist they allow) and your Divinity and Aspiration Tenets. At the start of the game these are Animism and Fertility, respectively, so connecting your cities to Animal and Crop resources will also provide faith. Once you've founded a religion you can construct its buildings and employ more priest specialists.

I recommend having a read of the concept articles in the pedia on Religion, Faith, Tenets, and Reformation.

 

[Nightstar]

Animism also gives a free priest with Natural Wonders, which is probably where the ones you mention came from. If you founded a non-Animistic religion, then the automatic switch to the new Divinity tenet would be why they disappeared.