I'm just wondering which option would be more efficient ultimately. Getting about 10 missionaries, or a single Great Prophet. Usually I'd go with the missionaries. But all of the surrounding cities have been claimed by foreign religions, and missionaries have hardly any effect once a city has been claimed.
1 Great Prophet or Multiple Missionaries?
- Thread starter stp52x
- Start date
thadian
Kami of Awakened Dreamers
Go for the great mosque then great prophets for a LOT of uses of spread religion. I believe using this ability from a prophet also removes an opposing religion in addition to spreading your own.
Yzman
Deity
A great prophet, especially one with 5 uses, is infinitely better. I think they normally get 4 uses but I have had some with 5 ( from the masoleum wonder?). A missionary will often not even convert one citizen, requiring multiple uses on cities that have dominant religions. A great prophet will totally negate the previous religion and install a majority of his religion.
I guess it depends on what purpose you want to use them for.
If its one of your cities and you want to get rid of an opposing religion, use an inquisitor.
If its an enemy city and you want to get rid of an opposing religion, use a great prophet.
If its an enemy/your city and they have no religion, use a missionary.
I guess it depends on what purpose you want to use them for.
If its one of your cities and you want to get rid of an opposing religion, use an inquisitor.
If its an enemy city and you want to get rid of an opposing religion, use a great prophet.
If its an enemy/your city and they have no religion, use a missionary.
Yeah that's what I thought. But I've already gone through 3 great prophets and it's hardly leaving a dent. And I got that great mosque wonder. I think great prophets have 3 spreads naturally, and 4 with that wonder. Is there another wonder that grants them another spread?
Yzman
Deity
No that is the one I was thinking of. There is a religion bonus that increases their effectiveness though.
How are 3 great prophets not leaving a dent? What are you trying to accomplish? They instantly remove all other religions in the city and replace it with your own. How is that not leaving a dent?
How are 3 great prophets not leaving a dent? What are you trying to accomplish? They instantly remove all other religions in the city and replace it with your own. How is that not leaving a dent?
Peacemongerer
Prince
Generally a Great Prophet.
They're more cost-effective. The only time a missionary is more valuable is when you've bought a lot of Great Prophets and the growth in cost has outpaced the natural growth from missionaries. The fact that they start costing upwards of 800 faith to buy towards the end of the game makes missionaries ineffective by the Inustrial Era pretty much useless by the Atomic Era compared to Great Prophets.
For the sake of pure abilities, their +4 movement instead of +2 is totally negated by the strength hit they take in rival territory without an OB agreement in place. The ability of a Great Prophet to simultaneously remove other religions and add his makes them the clear choice 90% of the time.
While it hasn't been an issue in any of my games, I suppose that the escalating cost of Great Prophets meanst that a missionary with the Mosque of Dejene in the Renaissance or so at 400 a pop would be more valuable than a 5th or 6th Great Prophet at 1.2k+. That's about the only time I'd choose the missionary.
They're more cost-effective. The only time a missionary is more valuable is when you've bought a lot of Great Prophets and the growth in cost has outpaced the natural growth from missionaries. The fact that they start costing upwards of 800 faith to buy towards the end of the game makes missionaries ineffective by the Inustrial Era pretty much useless by the Atomic Era compared to Great Prophets.
For the sake of pure abilities, their +4 movement instead of +2 is totally negated by the strength hit they take in rival territory without an OB agreement in place. The ability of a Great Prophet to simultaneously remove other religions and add his makes them the clear choice 90% of the time.
While it hasn't been an issue in any of my games, I suppose that the escalating cost of Great Prophets meanst that a missionary with the Mosque of Dejene in the Renaissance or so at 400 a pop would be more valuable than a 5th or 6th Great Prophet at 1.2k+. That's about the only time I'd choose the missionary.
@Yzman
Hmmm...yeah never mind. Atheism currently has 20 cities to Christianity's 13. I'd judged prematurely based on the pressure readings I was getting on the surrounding city states. Although those have also worn off considerably. Great prophets are superior without question.
"Mosque of Dejene in the Renaissance or so at 400 a pop would be more valuable than a 5th or 6th Great Prophet at 1.2k+. " These figures are interesting . Missionaries currently cost me 240 and my great prophet is at 1700.
Hmmm...yeah never mind. Atheism currently has 20 cities to Christianity's 13. I'd judged prematurely based on the pressure readings I was getting on the surrounding city states. Although those have also worn off considerably. Great prophets are superior without question.
"Mosque of Dejene in the Renaissance or so at 400 a pop would be more valuable than a 5th or 6th Great Prophet at 1.2k+. " These figures are interesting . Missionaries currently cost me 240 and my great prophet is at 1700.
Peacemongerer
Prince
Oops... wrong era. I got pretty far into my game and forgot which era they cost me 400 at.
Once the AIs have spread their own religions, you have to focus heavily on cities which border one another in other to pump up the pressure rating...otherwise you see exactly what you're seeing, where you convert a city for a turn or two and then it pops right back.
Ideally you'd want to launch a coordinated religious offensive with multiple GPs, to convert 3-4 cities at a time. They will then exert tremendous amounts of pressure on other cities in the area as well as on each other, making it that much harder for your opponent to undo your work. If the geography works out to where you can use 1 or 2 CSs in that offensive then all the better, as the AI can't use Inquisitors to wipe out your religion in those cities.
Oh, and GPs have 4 naturally, 5 with the wonder but I believe that's been covered already.
Peacemongerer
Prince
One thing I've found is that with continents, it's nearly impossible to establish a religion onto one far from home. With pangea, the trick is to hit the coastlines near your Holy City first (Especialy CSs, since the AI seems to give them almost no attention religiously). Also, your goal with your GP should be less about adding new followers and removing followers of other religions; if I have a choice between adding 6 to my religion in a city while deleting 5 of his, or adding 4 of mine and deleting 7 of another religion, the second is the better choice bc a missionary can always be a quick fix to add more if pressure doesn't suffice. But removing other religions' influence is invaluable.
Peacemongerer
Prince
Well I guess it depends on your map type. If on a pangea, GPs are invaluable bc you'll definitely be competing for the favor of cities with other religions. On a continets map, there will likely be "neutral" continents with no native religion, where the key priority is not so much removing other religions, but quickly establishing followers of yours to exert pressure and get a lead. In those situations, missionaries may be more beneficial bc of the lower cost and increased movement.
It's highly situational; especially depending on what you're trying to get out of the religion system. If you need to maximize the number of adherent cities to get your bonuses, GPs are it. If you're just trying to maximize followers (Like if I have tithe, for example), then GPs aren't as invaluable. All depends on your objectives. GPs are, however, more versatile and valuable in general. I'd say once it starts getting to about 6:1 or so, maybe start looking at missionaries (Although their cost going-up over time neutralizes this).
It's highly situational; especially depending on what you're trying to get out of the religion system. If you need to maximize the number of adherent cities to get your bonuses, GPs are it. If you're just trying to maximize followers (Like if I have tithe, for example), then GPs aren't as invaluable. All depends on your objectives. GPs are, however, more versatile and valuable in general. I'd say once it starts getting to about 6:1 or so, maybe start looking at missionaries (Although their cost going-up over time neutralizes this).
Somewhere around the end of industrial/beginning of atomic I generally lose interest in maintaining my religion. By that point you've usually developed yourself well enough that the belief bonuses are, well, bonuses instead of necessities, and spending the faith on buildings or other great people to park seems like better bang for the buck.
Pro-tip: If you're going to go through Piety, give it an early go at spreading your religion but don't push it too much if it isn't working. Save those great people & create holy sites, which pretty much rock once you've closed that branch.
I almost always have used missionaries only as a means of spreading my own religion to my own cities. For spreading to other civs' cities, I use the Great Prophet, since there's a good chance they will found their own religion before too long and could easily overturn any city you convert if you barely convert it (i.e. : you converted just over half of their citizens or whatever the number is).
