(10a) Counterproposal: Make Warlord Bonus Neutral, Settler Easier, Rework Difficulty Levels and Barbarians

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Counterproposal to: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/10-proposal-chieftain-difficulty-become-bonus-neutral.679015/
Note: I have a separate proposal to remove AI randomness for policy, tech and city production choice on all difficulty levels, which does not conflict with this one: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ifficulty-randomization-of-ai-choices.679135/


Current Status of Difficulty in VP
I have updated the guide for difficulty bonuses in VP (as they are currently) on the wiki for everyone's reference. Feel free to refer to it as you read this proposal to understand the changes.



Problems With Existing Proposal
Making Chieftain bonus neutral without changing any other difficulty levels has problems with it.

As currently proposed, the human player would go from:
Settler: 13 Happiness, -20% Unhappiness from needs, 9 base unit supply, 30% unit supply from population, randomized AI decisions (top 3 choices)
Chieftain: 8 Happiness, -0% Unhappiness from needs, 7 base unit supply, 15% unit supply from population, no randomized AI decisions
Warlord: 11 Happiness, -10% Unhappiness from needs, 9 base unit supply, 25% unit supply from population, randomized AI decisions (top 3 choices)

This is very unintuitive, weird for newcomers, and just bad design, in my opinion.

In addition, it's not only the values above, but also the anti-warmonger fervor cap, which would be raised to +50% on Chieftain so that neither side has an advantage. If a Chieftain player can handle 50% anti-warmonger fervor, they probably should be playing at a higher difficulty level.


Problems This Counterproposal Aims To Resolve
  • I know players who have struggled with the mod even on Settler and given up in frustration - which is not good for VP attracting newcomers. Let's call this group of players the "Newbie Segment".

  • The idea behind the original proposal - a difficulty level where the AI and human are on equal footing, offering a game which is a pure test of skill - is one that a good number of people have requested. Let's call this group of players the "Fair Play Segment".

  • The description for Deity doesn't use the epic "Only the best players in the world will beat this level." line, which is one of the very few things I liked about Firaxis's version. :lol:

  • The Gold received from Barbarian camps ranges from 30 Gold on Settler to 15 Gold on Deity. Songhai's unique ability triples Gold from clearing encampments, and is the only UA that is directly worsened simply by playing on a higher difficulty level. In addition, getting 15 Gold from clearing a Barbarian camp just...doesn't feel very rewarding.

  • There have been multiple complaints about Barbarians being irrelevant at every stage of the game, which is bad for Authority players. Recent testing and inspection of the code has revealed that there are three reasons for this: the high mobility of scouting units (as well as large amounts of AI units, sometimes with extra sight) is keeping too many tiles visible, there are several caps on the number of Barbarian encampments (on top of the restriction that they can't be created within 4 tiles of a major capital or another Barbarian camp), the spawning of camps on islands in the middle of the sea results in fewer Barbarians spawning in the middle of the sea. There is also a bit too much randomness in the spawning, in my opinion. More on this below.

  • There are frequent complaints from players about AI players having endless carpets of units on higher difficulties, which makes war a major grind.

  • AI players, even on difficulties as low as Prince, run out of things to build by midgame and spend all their time training units and working on processes. Not only does this drive up the Unhappiness median, but it doesn't feel fair or fun. The reason this happens is because the AI simply has too much Production with its instant yields combined with its discounts to Production costs. The instant Production from difficulty can also be applied towards World Wonders and World Congress Projects, which doesn't feel very fair or fun either.

The goals of my proposal is to make Vox Populi appeal to more segments of our target market, improve the general feel of the game, and to resolve the Barbarian issue. Thank you to @azum4roll and @Rekk for their early feedback on this proposal.


My Solution
The basic ideas of my proposal are to:
  • Make Settler difficulty even easier than it already is, for the Newbie Segment.

  • Make Chieftain difficulty roughly equivalent to current Settler (still providing some challenge, with an edge over the AI), for the Newbie Segment.

  • Make Warlord difficulty bonus neutral, with neither human players nor the AI having any advantages over each other, for the Fair Play Segment. Note that "bonus neutral" does not mean no bonuses, but rather that humans and the AI will have equal bonuses.

  • Make Prince and King the "ramp up" difficulties, two halfway points between Warlord and Emperor. They will each be substantially more challenging, and are for players who want to build up their skills (the Learners Segment).

  • Keep Emperor, Immortal and Deity at about the same level of difficulty, for players who like a challenge (they are the Challenge Seekers Segment).

  • Make the Gold from clearing a Barbarian encampment consistent at 50 Gold, scaling with era, regardless of difficulty.

  • Remove the caps on Barbarian encampments, allow them to spawn in visible tiles (but not adjacent to city borders/units) and make some other adjustments (explained in more detail below).

  • Remove the AI's total unit supply % bonus, to make wars less grind-y and more tactical on higher difficulties. They will still have production bonuses (so they can produce units quickly) and XP bonuses (so their units will be more effective), but they will not have as much ability to produce doom carpets. On higher difficulties they will have slightly more base and population % unit supply than humans, but that is much less than a 25-35% bonus to their total unit supply.

  • Remove the instant Production yield that AI players get from difficulty. It does not need replacement, in my opinion; AI players already have substantial Production discounts, so this is double-dipping. This also prevents AI players from getting a direct advantage to World Wonders and World Congress Projects, which should allow higher difficulty players more chances to obtain those Wonders.

Keep in mind that while Warlord will be bonus neutral and Settler will be easier, Prince and King will each be a fairly big jump in difficulty. Emperor+ will feel roughly the same, minus the doom carpets and with the AI having to do a bit more work. But I think this new system will work well and I would like to give it a try.

Table of Revised Player Bonuses
For the current values, see "Current Status of Difficulty in VP" above. AI Players have their own difficulty level and receive all of the bonuses in that column no matter what difficulty humans are playing on. These bonuses are equal to those of a human player on Warlord.
Spoiler :

Difficulty SettingWhat does it do?SettlerChieftainWarlordPrinceKingEmperorImmortalDeityAI Players
StartingLocPercentPlayers with a lower value are placed on the map first (pregen maps only, will eventually add to new maps)304050505050505050
HappinessDefaultGlobal Happiness at game start988777658
HappinessDefaultCapitalLocal Happiness bonus for the capital332221112
PopulationUnhappinessMod% modifier to Unhappiness from Needs-30%-15%-0%-0%-0%-0%-0%-0%AIUnhappinessPercent
ExtraHappinessPerLuxuryBonus Global Happiness for each unique luxury100000000
StartingDefenseUnitsExtra Warriors (or era equivalent unit) at game start11000000AIStartingDefenseUnits
ProductionFreeUnitsBase unit supply at game start1098887768
ProductionFreeUnitsPopulationPercentBase % of population added to unit supply (ignore puppets, unless Venice)353025252020151525
ProductionFreeUnitsPerCityBase unit supply per owned city111111111
GoldFreeUnitsNumber of units that don't count for unit maintenance310000000
RouteCostPercentDiscount on tile improvement maintenance60%80%100%100%100%100%100%100%100%
UnitCostPercentDiscount on unit maintenance75%90%100%100%100%100%100%100%100%
BuildingCostPercentDiscount on building maintenance75%90%100%100%100%100%100%100%100%
PolicyPercentDiscount on Social Policy cost80%90%100%100%100%100%100%100%100%
ResearchPercentDiscount on technology cost90%95%100%100%100%100%100%100%100%
AttitudeChangeDiplomacy bonus for human players to AI Opinion score-10-5000000N/A
AIDeclareWarProbIncreases AI enmity over disputes (and positive opinion for "no competition" modifiers)100120140160180200225250N/A
HumanStrengthPerceptionMod% increase to AI's perception of a human player's military strength (not always applicable)05101520253035N/A
ResistanceCapMaximum anti-warmonger fervor AGAINST this player16%24%32%40%50%55%65%75%AIResistanceCap
BarbarianBonusBonus VS Barbarians50%33%20%20%10%10%0%0%AIBarbarianBonus
BarbCampGoldGold from clearing a Barbarian camp, scaling with era505050505050505050
EarliestBarbarianReleaseTurnEarliest turn Barbarians can enter owned territory or tiles with Settlers (+/- 2 turns)5047444138353230N/A
BarbarianLandTargetRangePathfinder range for Barbarian land unit target search (in estimated turns)34555667N/A
BarbarianSeaTargetRangePathfinder range for Barbarian naval unit target search (in estimated turns)678889910N/A

Note on Barbarians
- Currently, the EarliestBarbarianReleaseTurn is a base value which has up to 15 turns randomly added to it at the start of the game. This is way too much randomness for my liking. I propose we reduce it to +/- 2 turns, and I bumped up the base values accordingly. In multiplayer I'll disable the randomness entirely (though I doubt it will affect much considering multiplayer's current instability).

Note on HumanStrengthPerceptionMod
- Formerly known as AIHumanStrengthMod, this value is now reduced due to the removal of AIUnitSupplyPercent. The strength perception bonus can be reduced or removed if the human player is overwhelmed with wars or doing poorly in them.


Table of Revised AI Bonuses
For the current values, see "Current Status of Difficulty in VP" above.
Spoiler :

Difficulty SettingWhat does it do?SettlerChieftainWarlordPrinceKingEmperorImmortalDeity
AIStartingDefenseUnitsExtra Warriors (or era equivalent unit) at game start00011111
StartingMinorDefenseUnitsExtra Warriors (or era equivalent unit) at game start for City-States00112233
AIWorkRateModifierWorkers complete improvements x% faster+0%+0%+0%+25%+35%+50%+60%+70%
AIUnhappinessPercent% modifier to Unhappiness from Needs+10%+5%-0%-0%-0%-0%-0%-0%
AIUnitCostPercentDiscount on unit maintenance100%100%100%90%85%80%75%70%
AIBuildingCostPercentDiscount on building maintenance100%100%100%90%85%80%75%70%
AIUnitUpgradePercentDiscount on unit upgrade cost100%100%100%90%80%70%60%50%
AITrainPercentModifier to combat unit production cost110%105%100%90%85%80%75%70%
AIConstructPercentModifier to building production cost110%105%100%90%85%80%75%70%
AIPerEraModifierAdditional reduction to building and combat unit production costs (multiplicative) for each game era that passes-0%-0%-0%-4%-6%-8%-9%-10%
AICivilianPercent (new)Modifier to production cost for non-combat units110%105%100%100%100%100%100%100%
AICreatePercent
AIWorldCreatePercent
AIWorldConstructPercent
Modifiers to production cost for Projects, World Wonders and World Congress Projects110%105%100%100%100%100%100%100%
AIFreeXPFree XP given to units (except starting pathfinder), scaling with game speed0001015202530
AIFreeXPPercent% increase to XP gain from combat+0%+0%+0%+20%+40%+60%+80%+100%
VisionBonusExtra sight for AI units (except scouting and trade units) in # of tiles00000012
AIResistanceCapMaximum anti-warmonger fervor AGAINST the AI64%48%32%40%50%50%50%50%
AIBarbarianBonusAI Bonus VS Barbarians0%10%20%20%25%25%30%30%
DifficultyBonusBaseSee AI Periodic Yield Bonuses, below00047101214
DifficultyBonusASee below000320335350360375
DifficultyBonusBSee below000190210230240260
DifficultyBonusCSee below000100123145160180

Note on AIUnitUpgradePercent
- Currently, this bonus is applied to the unit upgrade cost after it is reduced by AITrainPercent and AIPerEraModifier, which is double-dipping that trivializes unit upgrade costs. As part of this proposal, I will change unit upgrade costs to be based on the unit's base production cost, not its cost reduced by difficulty. To offset this, the bonus has been increased a bit on higher difficulties. AI will actually have to spend Gold to upgrade units now.

AI Periodic Yield Bonuses
The amount of yields gained on difficulties above Warlord is calculated as follows:

Yield Bonus = DifficultyBonusBase * (DifficultyBonusA + (DifficultyBonusB * Era) + (DifficultyBonusC * Era * Era)) / 100 (rounded down)
Era = current game (average) era, counting Ancient and Classical as era #1, Medieval as era #2, etc.

The types of yields granted for each trigger are as follows (no Production bonus anymore, Food yield is divided amongst all of the AI's cities):
  • Enters a new era (3x normal bonus; Food, Gold, Golden Age Points, Science, Culture)
  • Founds its original capital (Gold, Golden Age Points)
  • Founds a new city, other than its capital (Food, Gold, Golden Age Points, Science, Culture)
  • Wins a war (warscore 25+) (Food, Gold, Golden Age Points, Science, Culture)
  • Starts a Golden Age (Food, Gold, Science, Culture)
  • Constructs a World Wonder (Gold, Golden Age Points)
  • Generates a Great Person (Gold, Golden Age Points)
  • Completes an antiquity site dig by building a Landmark or extracting an artifact (Gold)
  • Completes a trade route to another civilization or City-State (Gold)
The yield total is multiplied by InstantYieldPercent and divided by 100. InstantYieldPercent is 50 on Quick speed, 100 on Standard, 150 on Epic, and 200 on Marathon.


Changes to Barbarians
Spoiler :

The current spawning logic for camps works as follows:
- Encampment Cap = All possible tiles that could have a Barbarian encampment on them divided by a constant based on map size (Duel: 13, Tiny: 18, Small: 23, Standard: 27, Large: 30, Huge: 35)
- At the end of turn 0, create encampments equal to 1/3 of the Encampment Cap
- At the end of any other turn, if below the encampment cap, 1/2 chance to create an encampment on a random eligible tile
- Encampments cannot spawn within 4 tiles of a major civ's original capital
- Encampments cannot spawn within 4 tiles of another encampment
- Encampments cannot spawn in owned territory or in territory that anyone has vision over
- Encampments cannot spawn on improved tiles
- Too many encampments cannot spawn in the same "area" (an internal subdivision of the map which can be very inconsistent in size)
Spoiler :

I would change the spawning logic to this:
- At the end of turn 2, create encampments on 1/8 of eligible tiles, chosen randomly
- Every 2 turns thereafter, create an encampment on a random eligible tile at the end of the turn (every 3 turns if Chill Barbarians is enabled, every 1 turn if Raging Barbarians is enabled)

- Encampments cannot spawn within 4 tiles of a major civ's original capital
- Encampments cannot spawn within 4 tiles of another encampment
- Encampments cannot spawn in owned territory
- Encampments (and their initial starting unit) can spawn in territory that anyone has vision over, but cannot spawn on tiles that are: occupied by a unit, adjacent to a unit, or adjacent to city borders.
- Encampments can spawn on improved tiles, and destroy any improvement on the tile (except Embassies). Defend your roads if they're not in your borders, or your City Connections will be at risk!

This should address the concerns about insufficient Barbarians and allow them to stay relevant longer, while still allowing "pirate islands" to persist in the high seas.


New Difficulty Level Descriptions
Settler: "Beginner. The AI is at a significant disadvantage."
Chieftain: "Easy. The AI is at a slight disadvantage."
Warlord: "Normal. The AI is on equal footing with human players."
Prince: "Intermediate. The AI has noticeable bonuses."
King: "Hard. The AI has substantial bonuses."
Emperor: "Expert. The AI has large bonuses."
Immortal: "The AI has massive bonuses at all stages of the game. You have been warned!"
Deity: "Only the best players in the world will beat this level."


Randomization of AI Decisions (City Production, Policies, Techs)
This will depend on the results of my other proposal. Whether it passes or fails, it will have no effect on this proposal.


Integration of Alternate Difficulty Mod Columns
Regardless of whether this proposal is approved, I will add some (or maybe all) of the difficulty settings that Milae added for his Alternate Difficulty modmod, and may add a few on top of that. They will be disabled by default, but will add additional customizability for modders and players.


Amendments
- Barbarians can now spawn within line of sight, but not in tiles occupied by units, adjacent to units, or adjacent to city borders
- The initial spawning of Barbarian encampments will occur at the end of turn 2, not turn 0
- 1/8 of eligible tiles will spawn encampments for the initial spawning (down from 1/5)
- Chill Barbarians reduces spawn rate to one encampment every 3 turns
- Raging Barbarians increases spawn rate to one encampment every turn


Sponsorship
I sponsor this proposal.
 
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- Encampments cannot spawn in owned territory or in territory that anyone has vision over
Emphasis mine. As per @NCore's @L.Vern's investigations, I think this is the primary driver to the lack of Barbarians on the map, and is especially notable on difficulties where the AI starts getting more vision / units.
 
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In his game #1 image you can see an entire continent with large unclaimed spaces between major player borders that will never get a camp, purely because that territory is always under vision. The area caps explain a lot of the unfilled land in some of the other images, but it won't fix everything.
 
In his game #1 image you can see an entire continent with large unclaimed spaces between major player borders that will never get a camp, purely because that territory is always under vision. The area caps explain a lot of the unfilled land in some of the other images, but it won't fix everything.
A fair point. I still think removing the caps is for the best and will simplify the code, but I'm open to suggestions on further improvements.
 
I like the general idea and agree settler should be super easy, almost impossible to lose. But on the other side deity should be super hard and these changes all seem to make the higher levels easier? But I do like the direction of the changes. Less carpets of units and wonder/project spamming. Maybe just give the units even more exp to start with? a smaller number of more powerful units might well be better.

On a vaugely related note I think a lot of the extra difficulty for this mod is changing so much. The full conversion is great but it also makes it much harder for people because they just don't know how everything works anymore
 
Proposal amended:
- Encampments (and their initial starting unit) can spawn in territory that anyone has vision over, but cannot spawn on tiles that are: occupied by a unit, adjacent to a unit, or adjacent to city borders.
 
I like the general idea and agree settler should be super easy, almost impossible to lose. But on the other side deity should be super hard and these changes all seem to make the higher levels easier? But I do like the direction of the changes. Less carpets of units and wonder/project spamming. Maybe just give the units even more exp to start with? a smaller number of more powerful units might well be better.

On a vaugely related note I think a lot of the extra difficulty for this mod is changing so much. The full conversion is great but it also makes it much harder for people because they just don't know how everything works anymore
It does make these difficulties easier, but IMO it removes unfun ways to give the AI an advantage (extra Production on World Wonders, doom carpets). If after the change, Challenge Seeker players find the game too easy, it shouldn't be too hard to make some number tweaks to fix the issue.

On the subject of difficulty, the excessive unhappiness will be nerfed for next version.

As far as changing so much - well, Vox Populi. :)

It would be great to have a changelog though...
 
Is it possible to Spawn the first barbarian camps at the end of turn 1 ? Because sometimes AI or Human prefer to move the original settler at the beginning of the game.
 
I think these sound like great changes, & feel the developers are trying to listen to their whole playerbase.

One concern I might have is regarding the bonuses AI receive such as gold. Obviously the higher level you play the more bonuses the AI can get, but this can make it far easier for players on higher levels than players playing lower down. Let me explain. Recently, there was a post from someone, playing on a high level, saying an AI had paid him over 70 gold p/t for a resource around 100 turns. I was looking at this, & noted that the AI on Warlord, which I am currently playing, had nowhere near this amount of gold at the time, so even if the process was correct, would obtain far less gold than say on Deity. This is true in gold in general, certainly early game, where the player on higher levels are swimming in gold from AI, which is less so on the lower levels. Seems the opposite of what should be happenning. My question is say that I am playing on Warlord, which I probably would if this new proposal is successful, it would surely be more difficult to obtain gold from AI than it is currently playing Warlord.
 
AI only gets more GPT through maintenance discounts, and indirectly through gaining buildings faster.
 
50:commerce: scaling from camps is actually a pretty significant boost to Authority/mobile civs (Aztec/Iro/Songhai/Celts etc.) Maybe not unwarranted but I think 30:commerce: scaling with era would already feel a lot better than what we have now.
 
So I guess it isn't feasible to add a new difficulty? I'm on board with all changes, but as stii said we have people going through Deity like a school trip already. Not that it affects me lol
We're seeing ppl going through Deity easily because CV happens way too early and easily (or maybe it's just because policy advantage snowball too hard you can branch into other victories once you ran away), and it should get another balance pass.
This change isn't aiming to make you win easier or harder, but to make you progress faster/slower compared to AI in term of general progression.
 
We're seeing ppl going through Deity easily because CV happens way too early and easily (or maybe it's just because policy advantage snowball too hard you can branch into other victories once you ran away), and it should get another balance pass.
This change isn't aiming to make you win easier or harder, but to make you progress faster/slower compared to AI in term of general progression.

For whatever reason deity is currently much easier than it has been in the past. The AI has far less units. Which is good because you don't have to grind through them but bad because conquering them is much easier. CV being easier also probably means the AI has less stuff there too. But in the past the AI has had so many units it took forever to attack them and CV was impossible so this is better it is just other numbers need to go up.

That said you don't really need a harder level because you can make it harder by picking bad civs or setting more extreme options in setup.
 
This has my strongest possible approval

just, uh, be careful with this.
At the end of turn 0, create encampments on 1/5 of eligible tiles, chosen randomly
The way it's worded it sounds like it would create the maximum number of encampments possible, since almost every tile on the entire map is an eligible tile at the start of the game, and I believe the theoretical maximum, giving a 4 tile buffer between camps, on a land-only map, would be that 1/25 of initially eligible tiles spawn encampments.

Also you might want to add some protections for players that don't settle on turn 0. Would be awful to have a barb spawn right in front of you while you're moving to your better settle spot.

Oh and also, agree with the others that it's probably a good idea to amp up difficulty on deity (and immortal). but with the major changes proposed still intact.
 
If making barbarians more prevalent (I support this, its common to never see a barbarian again after clearing the first 2 or so camps), I would like to see barbarians spawn at the end of turn 1, instead of turn 0 if possible, just to avoid a very specific situation where you move the settler in a large forest/jungle and immediately have several camps in close proximity.
 
Is it possible to Spawn the first barbarian camps at the end of turn 1 ? Because sometimes AI or Human prefer to move the original settler at the beginning of the game.
If making barbarians more prevalent (I support this, its common to never see a barbarian again after clearing the first 2 or so camps), I would like to see barbarians spawn at the end of turn 1, instead of turn 0 if possible, just to avoid a very specific situation where you move the settler in a large forest/jungle and immediately have several camps in close proximity.
I'll change them to spawn at the end of turn 2, that gives a three turn window to settle capitals without dealing with Barbarians.

This has my strongest possible approval

just, uh, be careful with this.

The way it's worded it sounds like it would create the maximum number of encampments possible, since almost every tile on the entire map is an eligible tile at the start of the game, and I believe the theoretical maximum, giving a 4 tile buffer between camps, on a land-only map, would be that 1/25 of initially eligible tiles spawn encampments.

Also you might want to add some protections for players that don't settle on turn 0. Would be awful to have a barb spawn right in front of you while you're moving to your better settle spot.

Oh and also, agree with the others that it's probably a good idea to amp up difficulty on deity (and immortal). but with the major changes proposed still intact.
Barbarians are not allowed to enter tiles containing Settlers until EarliestBarbarianReleaseTurn. This is already in place, I'll note it in the proposal.

1/5 may be a bit much considering that they can now spawn within line of sight. Since they're now guaranteed to spawn every 2 turns rather than relying on random chance and the restrictions are lower, this should be enough to make them relevant without them overflowing. I'll reduce to 1/8, and I'll change this based on Chill/Raging Barbarians as well.

Proposal amended:
- Barbarians spawn at the end of turn 2, not turn 0.
- On turn 2, Barbarian encampments now spawn on 1/8 of eligible tiles, not 1/5. Since they can now spawn in visible tiles, 1/5 is excessive.
- A Barbarian encampment will spawn every turn instead of every 2 turns if Raging Barbarians is active.
- A Barbarian encampment will spawn every 3 turns instead of every 2 turns if Chill Barbarians is active.

So I guess it isn't feasible to add a new difficulty? I'm on board with all changes, but as stii said we have people going through Deity like a school trip already. Not that it affects me lol
Not feasible unless you can figure out how to recode the game setup screen.

I think these sound like great changes, & feel the developers are trying to listen to their whole playerbase.

One concern I might have is regarding the bonuses AI receive such as gold. Obviously the higher level you play the more bonuses the AI can get, but this can make it far easier for players on higher levels than players playing lower down. Let me explain. Recently, there was a post from someone, playing on a high level, saying an AI had paid him over 70 gold p/t for a resource around 100 turns. I was looking at this, & noted that the AI on Warlord, which I am currently playing, had nowhere near this amount of gold at the time, so even if the process was correct, would obtain far less gold than say on Deity. This is true in gold in general, certainly early game, where the player on higher levels are swimming in gold from AI, which is less so on the lower levels. Seems the opposite of what should be happenning. My question is say that I am playing on Warlord, which I probably would if this new proposal is successful, it would surely be more difficult to obtain gold from AI than it is currently playing Warlord.
If AI is giving too much GPT, that's an AI issue and should be reported on Github with a savegame. AI does have more resources to trade/steal on higher difficulties, but this is generally outweighed by their higher performance and there's not much we can really do about it anyway.

For whatever reason deity is currently much easier than it has been in the past. The AI has far less units. Which is good because you don't have to grind through them but bad because conquering them is much easier. CV being easier also probably means the AI has less stuff there too. But in the past the AI has had so many units it took forever to attack them and CV was impossible so this is better it is just other numbers need to go up.

That said you don't really need a harder level because you can make it harder by picking bad civs or setting more extreme options in setup.

Regarding all the comments about Deity being too easy - I honestly don't think removing their unit supply bonus is going to make that much of a difference, considering they still have:
- Production discounts on buildings which increase food and production
- Production discounts on buildings which increase supply cap
- Production discounts on units
- Increasing discounts on these two with era
- Instant Food yields to increase population

Their supply cap will still be higher and they will still produce a lot of units, just not absurdly so. If anyone has specific ideas for how to amend my proposal to make Immortal/Deity more challenging, feel free to speak up (today, since the Sponsorship Phase begins tomorrow and no more amendments are allowed then). But I think if this is passed and then after playtesting higher difficulties are too easy, that's a problem we can fix by specifically changing those difficulties.

Note also that unhappiness will be nerfed (not removed, but should provide more breathing room), so AI should be more successful in general.
 
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50:commerce: scaling from camps is actually a pretty significant boost to Authority/mobile civs (Aztec/Iro/Songhai/Celts etc.) Maybe not unwarranted but I think 30:commerce: scaling with era would already feel a lot better than what we have now.
You can get 100 or even 200 Gold from Ancient Ruins.
 
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Agree there are lots of changes and if Deity is still too easy then it can be adjusted in the next round. It is really hard to predict. It seems easier currently but I could really tell you exactly why.
 
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