1412 testing

[Delgar]

Thanks Txurce! Yup I did exactly that - grab the boost to wonder productivity on the Tradition SP then went the Liberty route. There were hardly any barbs around though as I think they were mostly cleared up by the AI players nearby.

I believe I was quite lucky with tech parity though in that there weren't crazily high population Civs like Siam, India, or America...but very unlucky in that I was surrounded by 2 militaristic Civs in Rome and Songhai. Oh and Denmark and China just a little further away as well. Rome and Songhai DOW-ed on me on the same turn.

Hey Thal, no worries, yup that bug with the Lakes map is not a big deal at all, just thought I'd bring it up.

Also, I don't know if it's just me but I notice that when I play on the Continents map script, I tend to fare better than when I play on the PerfectWorld map script. I remember reading a few times that the mod is balanced to work with Standard map size, but what about map scripts?

 

[wobuffet]

Yeah I think that GA should give a culture boost similar to the GS, they scale by era right? And the "culture bomb" should move to GG to symbolise a successful military campaign to grab land. It would need a new name.

This would make a lot of sense! Burning a GA would generate instant Culture, and burning a GG could create a Citadel (possibly weaker than it is now) and grab every neighboring tile.

 

[Txurce]

This would make a lot of sense! Burning a GA would generate instant Culture, and burning a GG could create a Citadel (possibly weaker than it is now) and grab every neighboring tile.

I like this a lot.

 

[Txurce]

Also, I don't know if it's just me but I notice that when I play on the Continents map script, I tend to fare better than when I play on the PerfectWorld map script. I remember reading a few times that the mod is balanced to work with Standard map size, but what about map scripts?

The PW map shouldn't throw anything off.

 

[Delgar]

This would make a lot of sense! Burning a GA would generate instant Culture, and burning a GG could create a Citadel (possibly weaker than it is now) and grab every neighboring tile.

Nice idea!

I was wondering though, is it possible to make it so that the GG can grab neighbouring tiles without having to be in friendly territory? Or would that be overpowered....

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

@Bernd-das-Brot
I count 5 influence purchases for Kame between turn #1 and turn #113. The first number is the gold spent, and the second number is his gold supply. If there's any more purchasing going on it's vanilla doing it.

Turn 30 Kamehameha 270/270 spent for 40 influence with Vienna
Turn 41 Kamehameha 216/216 spent for 30 influence with Vienna
Turn 46 Kamehameha 212/212 spent for 30 influence with Sydney
Turn 47 Kamehameha 227/227 spent for 30 influence with Helsinki

After my game v140.1 (or .4) where I did not see any strange behaviour regarding CS, I have played two other games where the problem occured. In the v141.2 it began when the guys from the other continent discovered my continent (I had nearly destroyed everyone who shared mine). The Inca with only three cities spent limitless money to get my 5 or 6 CSs. I quit by ~300, but some turns later it was 1000-1500. On the home continent of the Inca he had mostly CS relations ~3200!!

The v142.4 game (where the log file originates) I was uncontested ally of Dublin, Stockholm and Venice till turn 110, then Kamehamea bought all CS I know with influence around 400 points. His empire consists of his capital, one pop 9 and one pop 1 city. Where did he get the money? Could it be possible that the AIs do not lose the gold they spent on CS? Could be one of the reasons why the AI had such ridiciolously high amounts of money before they were forced to spent it.

 

[rfxmills]

This would make a lot of sense! Burning a GA would generate instant Culture, and burning a GG could create a Citadel (possibly weaker than it is now) and grab every neighboring tile.

I'd like to keep the 2 things separate, so you have a defensive option for the GG, settling a Citadel, and an offensive option, grabbing 2 hexes in every direction (which is the current range of the GA culture bomb).

I was wondering though, is it possible to make it so that the GG can grab neighbouring tiles without having to be in friendly territory? Or would that be overpowered....

You can use a culture bomb in your territory or neutral hex adjacent to your territory.

 

[Txurce]

I'd like to keep the 2 things separate, so you have a defensive option for the GG, settling a Citadel, and an offensive option, grabbing 2 hexes in every direction (which is the current range of the GA culture bomb).

Agreed on this clarification.

 

[albie_123]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Thal has planned for when the SDK comes out (Sorry, if the SDK comes out) that Citadels and Forts maintain a border around them. It's in the 'Todo list':

Forts as mini-cities with 1-tile border radius and a garrison slot, but no other city capabilities. Citadels are forts with 2-tile radius, garrison slot, more hitpoints, and bombard capability.

I am heavily in favour of Thal's idea, borders included. Building a Citadel / Fort is inherently offensive, not defensive - defensive Civs have no need for forts, they rely on their city defense.

 

[Txurce]

I lost a chariot in one turn, and couldn't see how. It was a 3-range blitz catapult. Could we tone down the AI promotions?

 

[Zaldron]

I lost a chariot in one turn, and couldn't see how. It was a 3-range blitz catapult. Could we tone down the AI promotions?

I'm just waiting for range 4 blitz longbows...I think I'll nickname them "sniper rifles" Seriously though in the latest 142.8 I haven't seen insane promotions even though France and Rome have been warring each other and me. It may be better.

 

[Txurce]

After my instant hissy fit, I settled down. It's probably better as is, as Thal has pointed out.

By the way... much more importantly... 142.8 seems to have fixed the CS issue.

All right, Thal!

 

[rfxmills]

I am heavily in favour of Thal's idea, borders included. Building a Citadel / Fort is inherently offensive, not defensive - defensive Civs have no need for forts, they rely on their city defense.

You can use forts and citadels to create or virtually block off choke points away from your cities. I like Thal's ideas, but they are pretty long-term, the short-term change we've laid out shouldn't be much work (the abilities already exist, it's just moving them to a different unit).

 

[Delgar]

After my instant hissy fit, I settled down. It's probably better as is, as Thal has pointed out.

By the way... much more importantly... 142.8 seems to have fixed the CS issue.

All right, Thal!

It has? Ok I ought to give it a whirl then. I just finished a game with Korea, Prince difficulty, on VEM 1412. Won cultural victory in turn 300 something. BUT, things were made much more complicated with the Inca allying with ALL city-states, and outbidding basically everyone else. Inca had influence in the 1000s, 2000s, even 3000s, with all the city-states. They also had like 100+ happiness at the end of the game and their population was skyrocketing away.

Also I posted a query in the Strategy forum...just curious about what everyone thinks

Opening strategies: http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=430

 

[Thalassicus]

Seriously though in the latest 142.8 I haven't seen insane promotions even though France and Rome have been warring each other and me. It may be better.

In one of the latest versions I balanced the higher AI starting experience with a -25% dampener on from combat. This starts things off with a challenge, while reducing the runaway promotion effect of success. If necessary we can increase the dampening effect more in the future.

 

[Zaldron]

In one of the latest versions I balanced the higher AI starting experience with a -25% dampener on from combat. This starts things off with a challenge, while reducing the runaway promotion effect of success. If necessary we can increase the dampening effect more in the future.

Based on one game of 143 I don't see an immediate need to increase the dampening anymore. I'll play a couple more games and see how it pans out.