1500AD on GEM

[Marmoteo]

Yay! Just played a couple of turns and noticed a few things.

- Great to see Australia improved! Now in case anyone decides to break it as a colony it'll be able to hold on its own well.

- The Great Engineers now pose a problem for two reasons. One of them is that they build the Apostolic Palace and the Taj Mahal in the first turn. In that case why don't you just put the Apostolic Palace in Rome by default and the only suggestion I have for the Taj Mahal is not give Nationalism to the civs with a Great Engineer so maybe another civ has the chance to build it.

Haven't really seen how Ming and everyone else turns out in terms of balance, but will check it out later.

Cheers!

 

[Genghis_Kai]

- The Great Engineers now pose a problem for two reasons. One of them is that they build the Apostolic Palace and the Taj Mahal in the first turn. In that case why don't you just put the Apostolic Palace in Rome by default and the only suggestion I have for the Taj Mahal is not give Nationalism to the civs with a Great Engineer so maybe another civ has the chance to build it.

Good point. I have to look into that a bit more.

 

[Agent327]

- The Great Engineers now pose a problem for two reasons. One of them is that they build the Apostolic Palace and the Taj Mahal in the first turn. In that case why don't you just put the Apostolic Palace in Rome by default and the only suggestion I have for the Taj Mahal is not give Nationalism to the civs with a Great Engineer so maybe another civ has the chance to build it.

I agree with not giving Nationalism to any civ at this point in time, but see no problem with both the Apostolic Palace and the Taj Mahal being pre-built in their appropriate locations.

 

[Gooblah]

Looks great! I'll try downloading, but my comp sux, so I probably won't be able to play. As for the entire Mughals and Ottoman issue...

Try creating bad blood between the intended target Civ and the conquering Civ. Go into Worldbuilder, then into Diplomacy. There, select the Ottoman, and slide the Target Civ's scale to the left. Then, do the same as the Target Civ, except to the Ottoman. Repeat for Mongolia. This way, they'll tend to attack that Civ due to the Furiousness of their relationship.

 

[Agent327]

Try creating bad blood between the intended target Civ and the conquering Civ. Go into Worldbuilder, then into Diplomacy. There, select the Ottoman, and slide the Target Civ's scale to the left. Then, do the same as the Target Civ, except to the Ottoman. Repeat for Mongolia. This way, they'll tend to attack that Civ due to the Furiousness of their relationship.

Setting attitude to furious doesn't guarantee war.

Tried to load v. 1.1, but got a "Failed to read..." WBS file report...

 

[SimonB1er]

I tried this scenario, looks pretty good but the turns turn out pretty slow(3-4minute a turn) I have a Pentium 4 3ghz, 1gb ram and a geforce 6600gt. Any advice to help me improve performance?
Thanks

 

[Traiano]

I playtested the Mod with 5 civilizations so far.

Outstanding job.
Seriously remarkable, perhaps the best scenario I have played, due to both complexity and realism.

The game I played the most was with Venice, then I tried Spain, Hungary, Poland and Japan.

My constructive criticism:

- Spain systematically submits the Maya and easily takes over the New World. Perhaps too easily.
I like the idea but it happens always, not at times, and way too quickly.
A struggle in the new World should divert Spain attention from Europe, while instead they easily manage to dominate in the new world and also get the upper hand in any European war, if opposed to Venice, the Papal State, or anybody that isnt Portugal, France or England.

I suggest to reduce the amount of cities in the caribbean and maybe also the amount of galleons with 3 conquistadores units ready to land in Yucatan, so that their invasion is tentative rather than guaranteed success.

- Ming China is way too strong.
It usually ends up first followed by Spain.
It easily takes at bay Mongols, Japan and other 2 Civilizations, even if attacked simultaneously.
Perhaps 19 major cities to start with are a bit too many?
Or maybe send them backward tech-wise?
My two cents.

- Venice
I love the position and how it englobes Zagreb & Salzburg, managing to get a mainland.
However it badly needs iron resources to be able to fight in any war....iron seems to be lacking badly.
I noticed the same problem for Hungary.


- Japan
Very well balanced.
However it might be helpful to give them complete control of the island if they are supposed to hinder China's growth since the beginning.


Thanks again for the amazing job.

Will we see any ancient scenario with the GEM map?
Would love too.

Keep up the great work.

 

[Agent327]

- Spain systematically submits the Maya and easily takes over the New World. Perhaps too easily.

Well, that's what happened (and made Spain a world power).

- Japan
Very well balanced.
However it might be helpful to give them complete control of the island if they are supposed to hinder China's growth since the beginning.

The northern island of Hokkaido wasn't annexed until after 1850; this and northern Honshu island was populated by the indigenous Ainu.

Will we see any ancient scenario with the GEM map?

That would be interesting indeed!

 

[Genghis_Kai]

I playtested the Mod with 5 civilizations so far.

Outstanding job.
Seriously remarkable, perhaps the best scenario I have played, due to both complexity and realism.

The game I played the most was with Venice, then I tried Spain, Hungary, Poland and Japan.

My constructive criticism:

- Spain systematically submits the Maya and easily takes over the New World. Perhaps too easily.
I like the idea but it happens always, not at times, and way too quickly.
A struggle in the new World should divert Spain attention from Europe, while instead they easily manage to dominate in the new world and also get the upper hand in any European war, if opposed to Venice, the Papal State, or anybody that isnt Portugal, France or England.

I suggest to reduce the amount of cities in the caribbean and maybe also the amount of galleons with 3 conquistadores units ready to land in Yucatan, so that their invasion is tentative rather than guaranteed success.

- Ming China is way too strong.
It usually ends up first followed by Spain.
It easily takes at bay Mongols, Japan and other 2 Civilizations, even if attacked simultaneously.
Perhaps 19 major cities to start with are a bit too many?
Or maybe send them backward tech-wise?
My two cents.

- Venice
I love the position and how it englobes Zagreb & Salzburg, managing to get a mainland.
However it badly needs iron resources to be able to fight in any war....iron seems to be lacking badly.
I noticed the same problem for Hungary.


- Japan
Very well balanced.
However it might be helpful to give them complete control of the island if they are supposed to hinder China's growth since the beginning.


Thanks again for the amazing job.

Will we see any ancient scenario with the GEM map?
Would love too.

Keep up the great work.

Thanks for your comment

The difficulty of making historical scenarios is the balance of the two competing factors - game play and historical. Most of the suggestions you made resulted from the emphasize on game play over historical which I am not entirely agree. I have in fact attempted to make weight down China by giving in emperor handicap setting.

But I will of course continue to see ways for making game balance without altering the history too much.

 

[Marmoteo]

I actually quite like Spain's current situation. It becomes a huge empire quickly and it might last a couple of centuries. But it is very fragile due to the maintenance and to an European civ declaring war to them. That is why human players might have to resort to breaking up the empire into colonies and I've actually seen the AI doing it which is quite nice (well, the only weird thing is seeing Lincoln controlling west south america, haha).

Ottomans seem to conquer a bit more now than before, but why not making them start at war with Arabia? I don't really know much about the history of the empire and their relationship with the mid east, but I know that at its maximum height the empire extended from current day Turkey to Egypt and northern Africa.

 

[Genghis_Kai]

I actually quite like Spain's current situation. It becomes a huge empire quickly and it might last a couple of centuries. But it is very fragile due to the maintenance and to an European civ declaring war to them. That is why human players might have to resort to breaking up the empire into colonies and I've actually seen the AI doing it which is quite nice (well, the only weird thing is seeing Lincoln controlling west south america, haha).

Ottomans seem to conquer a bit more now than before, but why not making them start at war with Arabia? I don't really know much about the history of the empire and their relationship with the mid east, but I know that at its maximum height the empire extended from current day Turkey to Egypt and northern Africa.

Ottoman should be start at war with Arabia now. I think I changed that after I released v1.1 for the first few hours. It was a bug that Ottoman is at peace with Arabia (no wonder it never conquer arabia ) try download it again.

 

[Traiano]

I'm playing another game, as Venice, and I'm in the mid 17th century now.
This is brief breakdown, in case someone wants to figure out recurring patterns of the game:

Morocco has been subdued by Spain and became its vassal. Spain also penetrated deeply into the Ottomans-Arabian territory, taking Aleppo.
Even tough if they sign a peace treaty they might lose it soon, at least looking at their cultural borders.

Regarding Venice, after making peace with France (you start at war with it) I pushed Louis XII in a war against the Papal State, to weaken them both and avoid the usual sneak attack by France or Spain (jointed they are too strong for Venice to face off).
However I had to enter the fray and attack Rome as well - after Venice flipped and fell under the Pope's control.
Without Venice my economy was falling apart, while, right now, is extremely healthy.

I now control the whole Italian peninsula: Rome, Venice, Palermo and I have taken back Durazzo (that usually flips to the Papal State pretty soon, like Salzburg and Zagreb flips to Venice during the early stages of the game).

I hope to be able to force the Papal State to capitulate as they control just two cities in the Mediterranean and a third in South America.

I also founded a city in North America and I'm beginning to expand up there, considering there are just barbarians (Spain is close to found a city in Florida).

Morocco has been fragmented under the attacks of Spain (His Master now) and Portugal.

The Ottomans, after losing to me both Athens and Thessalonica, are now attacking north. After making peace with Spain and I they are doing quite well and conquered two Polish cities.

Hungary is nearly in the same starting position: lost Belgrade to the Ottomans (and Zagreb to me) but is expanding into the Holy Roman Empire lands and Berlin might flip to them soon.

Arabia and the Ottomans are indeed fighting - your idea is working - even though the Ottomans still seems to focus mainly north, to fight Hungary, Poland etc...

Arabia - despite being at war with nearly all the western countries - hasnt lost any city and seems quite strong.
Morocco, I reiterate, is falling apart.

The Kalmar Union has been fighting Portugal and has taken over a couple of African cities but might soon have to square off with Russia.

I'm leading in score but I'm oblivious to Ming China's progress.

I have decent chances to take the second place, if Spain's economy fails them.

In the New World, the Incas Empire is intact while Maya and Aztec, of course, capitulated to Isabella.

Great game so far.

Just a bit slow in between turns, even though my computer has a solid processor and 2 Gb Ram it really takes a while to load.

Really eager to hear if there is in the work an Ancient scenario on the GEM.

The Map rocks!

 

[Genghis_Kai]

Re: Traiano

Thanks for the sharing.

I was playing Portugal last night. Had an interesting game. I started off declaring war with Zulu and soon eliminated him. I've also conquered all the eastern Africa coastal cities all the way up to Aden on the Arabia peninsula. At the same time Songhay declared war on me and together with Morocco which I am at war initially, I have a second battle front on western Africa. I was able to capitulate Songhay and making Ethiopia my vessal but not Morocco. So I ended up controlling all of the sub sahara Africa. I also built two cities on the Brazilian coast. Before I quit last night, I am at ~ 900 point while Ming at ~1000 and Spain ~850 so I am second in score. I am confident to overtake Ming if I continue to play since I am controlling a much large land with many undeveloped cities.

I wasn't paying much attention to whats happening around the world. Spain as usual vessalised Maya and Aztecs; Mughal and Persia are doing well in grabbing cities while Ottoman isn't as well; Ming lost about 3~4 northern cities to Mongol and Manchu.

 

[Marmoteo]

To test more than one civ at a time (as a player), I decided to play using Hot Seat using: Japan, Russia, Chagatai, Mughal, Spain, Portugal, France, Papal States, England, Ottomans and Ethiopia.

I tried to keep both Chagatai and Japan constantly pillaging China's territory to slow them down, but didn't manage to capture any cities with them. Unified Japan and captured Ryukyu.

As Portugal, Songhai declared war at me, so I captured one of their cities and after a long war he finally decided to be my vassal. Didn't really paid much attention to the war cause my maintenance was already quite high. Captured some coastal Barb cities in Africa just to simulate a bit of historical accuracy and also captured Aden and Muscat. Also captured to coastal cities of the Bahmani-Sultanate, and the minor civ one which is in the east indian coast. Reached Malacca and captured their capital and a couple of their cities. Founded two cities in Brazil too. Now I hold a sort of historical territory and while i'm trying to get over my maintenance I'm trading my resources with the AI and other civs i'm using for some gold. Might end up breaking my empire into colonies.

As for Spain I eliminated all the pre-hispanic civs, controlling their territory and razing most of the 'native american' barb cities for gold. Built the Forbidden Palace in Tenochtitlan with my Great Engineer. I managed to do it quite fast since the Aztec cities hold enough courthouses to reach a total of 10 (preq. of Forb Palace). Captured a couple of the Moroccan territory and now they are my vassals. I'm trying to reach the Philippines at the moment but it'll take me a while.

England's doing quite good. Their science output is strong so I managed to get to Liberalism first. Founded two cities in America and sent the other two settlers/some workers/couple of musketmans/great engineer to Australia. It took me ages to get there, and I just founded a city there. Trying to get some Redcoats to get to South Africa and take Zimbabwe out. But that'll have to wait.

France is only second in culture to the Papal States. The Saloons are really helping to avoid getting my cities adjacent to the Papal States one absorbed. I popped out a Great Artist and used it to boost my culture near P.States. Calais (English) revolted and got it under my control after a while. With all this european civs i've been trying to balance it out between culture and science to get my colonial cities to expand and make good use of the territory. Captured Tunis and Tripoli and used my great engineer to get the Versailles built there so that it can have some culture to stand against the soaring Papal States and Morocco's culture.

Built the Apostolic Palace with the P.States. After that got a great prophet which I used to start a golden age. Moved the culture slide a bit up to absorb all the Italic peninsula, leaving Venice with Durazzo and a couple of islands in the Mediterranean. Now i'm popping some missionaries to reach the mid east and america, to make sure they stay christian and to get heaps of gold. Last turns I began focusing in moving the espionage slider up, and been sending some spies to France and Venice.

As Ethiopia I didn't do much. Just improved the infrastructure a bit and then 'retired', giving control of it to the AI.

With Mughal I managed to capture a couple of Shaybanid's cities and most of northern India. I left Lodhi with Bangladesh so that at least he'll be representing that country now. Captured some of the minor civ's cities and now been focusing on infrastructure and military, since most of my empire is fragile/unprotected.

Russia is rather a hard one to play. You start with two good cities and a lot of crap. So with them i've been trying to chop like crazy and build cottages. So far so good, been slowly rising but it'll be a while since all that grassland/plains will turn into a cottage fertile land.

Finally, as the Ottomans, I captured two cities in Mesopotamia, and most all of the Arab territory, leaving them only with Medina and Mecca. Didn't want to kill them so yeah. I'm now on par with Ming now, and while it is hard to fend off Poland and Hungary, and having the Ethiopian AI declaring war on me and Venice trying to control my coasts, i've managed.

Been heaps of fun to play this scenario! I'm starting uni again in one week so I might not be able to play for a while

 

[Agent327]

Good one, Marmoteo! (Though a Saloon is quite different from a Salon - wouldn't get much Science from a Saloon...)

 

[Marmoteo]

Hahaha, true... Imagine there's just one 'o' in that word.

 

[Genghis_Kai]

Re: Marmoteo

great work in your extensive test!

 

[Agent327]

The DL link on your DL page is busted!

 

[ZB2]

I've only just stumbled upon this, and your download link is broken

Fixy fix.

 

[KaiserBenjamin]

This map comes with the GEM map download. So you should be able to get it that way.