1v1 Duel

[Ormylar]

Hi everyone,

I was playing a few games with a friend of mine on Civ4:BTS. My friend always chooses Montezuma, and I tried different civs to counter him: Shaka, Sitting Bull, Genghis Khan. We play on Monarch level on a Pangaea map, dual size, always war, with barbarians. Any idea on who I should be and how I should play my strategy out? I usually go for archery or bronze working asap, but once he get Iron Working, he just builds his jaguars and zooms them through the forest. Any ideas on how to counter them. I was thinking of being Rome or Greeks next. Any suggestions on strategies or civs?

 

[AfterShafter]

Sitting Bull's Dog Soldiers will eat Jaguar Warriors for breakfast, cost fewer hammers, and like the jags require no resources - and his archers will probably kick the living crap out of jags hitting your cities. Outside of that, you could try Rome - though they don't zoom through forests, Praetorians are just so beefy compared to Jags it doesn't make for much of a fight in any scenario but in the jungle. Lastly, Mongols might work - their Keshiks (horse archers) would not only match Jags for movement in jungles, but would be able to motor across other terrain types as well - making them good attackers, if not great defenders.

As for strategy... Chop your forests into units early - keep him from using his jag mobility/defence advantage in your terrain. Move your units across hills and in the open where Jags don't get their bonuses. Just do everything you can to not play his game.

 

[Junuxx]

^ what he said!

 

[jameson]

Try Gilgamesh of Sumer; the vulture does as well against the jaguars as a regular axe, but better against his archers. Creative means you get higher city defense from culture, and protective archers will be tough for jags to take down. Take care to found your cities on hills as much as possible and your cities will be essentially unconquerable until catapults.

 

[miked1991]

A protective leader might not do too badly either... if he wants to attack, 4 upgrade archers he has to beat

 

[Ormylar]

Sitting Bull's Dog Soldiers will eat Jaguar Warriors for breakfast, cost fewer hammers, and like the jags require no resources - and his archers will probably kick the living crap out of jags hitting your cities. Outside of that, you could try Rome - though they don't zoom through forests, Praetorians are just so beefy compared to Jags it doesn't make for much of a fight in any scenario but in the jungle. Lastly, Mongols might work - their Keshiks (horse archers) would not only match Jags for movement in jungles, but would be able to motor across other terrain types as well - making them good attackers, if not great defenders.

As for strategy... Chop your forests into units early - keep him from using his jag mobility/defence advantage in your terrain. Move your units across hills and in the open where Jags don't get their bonuses. Just do everything you can to not play his game.

The one problem is that when I chop my forest, he just camps outside. If I try to get past, he attackes me as well. He may lose a few units but in the end, he kills them, especially when he gets copper/iron or horses. But I think Rome will work well. Thanks for the tips.

 

[Ormylar]

Try Gilgamesh of Sumer; the vulture does as well against the jaguars as a regular axe, but better against his archers. Creative means you get higher city defense from culture, and protective archers will be tough for jags to take down. Take care to found your cities on hills as much as possible and your cities will be essentially unconquerable until catapults.

The one problem with that is that he gets horses and runs them over with his chariots. But I get the general idea. Building spearman could help but then they're strength 4, etc. I would need to build a variety as for him, he only build Jaguars and axemen or chariots if he has the resources.

 

[Ormylar]

I was just thinking.... maybe Hammurabi might work? His bowman strong against melee units? He's Aggresive/Organized.

 

[AfterShafter]

The one problem is that when I chop my forest, he just camps outside. If I try to get past, he attackes me as well. He may lose a few units but in the end, he kills them, especially when he gets copper/iron or horses. But I think Rome will work well. Thanks for the tips.

Well, thing is, if he needs iron working for Jags, you need bronze working to chop. If you bee-line bronze working, you *should* be able to chop before he's coming at you with jags and get the relevant forests out of the way.

The problem with Rome is... Those Praets require iron. If you don't have iron, you're back to square one. Sitting Bull, on the other hand, has dog soldiers, which A) get +100% vs jags, B) don't need any resources whatsoever to build, and C) only require bronze working. So you get bronze working, and you have an effective counter to his jags. Add to that Bull's superpowered archers and you've got him covered if he goes for chariots too.

If he's getting copper, iron, and horses, you should be able to at least get copper or iron.. With Bull, that would (with the right techs - hunting, archery, and BW) give you very effective in-field counters to Jags, horse archers, chariots, axemen, and attacking archers.

Hammer time would work well also, as you pointed out. Basically only horse units would be a problem. I'd reconsider Rome - they might work, but only if you get iron. My guess is Sitting Bull's dog soldiers + super archers would make this an easy matchup.

Good luck in any case

 

[AfterShafter]

The one problem with that is that he gets horses and runs them over with his chariots. But I get the general idea. Building spearman could help but then they're strength 4, etc. I would need to build a variety as for him, he only build Jaguars and axemen or chariots if he has the resources.

But you see, you say "they're only strength 4, etc. I would need to build a variety"... But then you list off three units he's building. I'm telling you, a stack of dog soldiers and spearmen, or even dog soldiers and SB's super archers would eat a jag/axemen/chariot stack for breakfast - and you only need copper, whereas he needs copper and horses. Basically, he needs more to get his three units than you need to get their counters. Remember, he needs a variety of resources and techs to build the three units you're listing - if you are having trouble getting a sufficiently varied counter-force built, the problem may not be the civ you are.. It may be time to practice a little solo, because your friend might just be a better player, able to get what he needs better in early game.

 

[miked1991]

Try advancing your army a little way out to your borders rather than sitting in the city... if he can sit on a hill with his stack next to your city, your in trouble. If your waiting on your borders, he shows up, you can attack when he has to move over some flat land to get to the city. Your standing on the hill so he has to move around you

If he's too confident, he might not be defending his own cities too well, in which case try sending a few around the back out of his sight to get at his cities.

Finally, focus on food and hammers in the early game not gold income, you need the production not the gold.

Also, if your army is nicely made and he's not attacked you yet, try being offensive on him... there's no reason why you can't do what he's been doing to you!

Edit - Don't under-estimate spearmen... they're only strength 4, but against horses they're 8, so they pwn all horse early game... just don't try using them against anything else!