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Discussion in 'Civ4 - The Second Revolution' started by GarretSidzaka, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. ArneHD

    ArneHD Just a little bit mad

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    Perhaps we could python script it so that at the start of a trun, factions get a civ specific tech. This gets them to found a specific Ideology. Or we could jsut pre-set the "holy" cities.
     
  2. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    i have currently all but removed religion currently from the game. but when we set up the "political ideology", we could set them to spread like wildfire during the game.

    what about "nationalism" and/or "fundamentalism" as some of the ideologies?
     
  3. Mode

    Mode Chieftain

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    Thanks for the response Garret,

    The avatar I want is the leader picture from the original revolution mod--the one with the guy kneeling, holding up his hand with the V for victory. I look like that guy, lol. Come on, bring him back :king: . If I recall he was wearing camoflauge and therefore far more fitting an image for the syndicate's military leader. The syndicate must have a leader or they shouldn't be a playable civ.

    I've also read the posts by ArneHD, Fabrysse and Woodelf (who we all know as one of the world's foremost experts on civilization); but I must disagree with this notion of replacing religion with ideology. Ideology is already strongly represented in the game. All the different civic options qualify as ideologies. The reasons why I suggest supplanting religion with secret societies makes a lot of sense:

    1.) Secret societies really exist (not to be confused with the many conspiracy theories surrounding them).

    2.) Secret societies are built upon religious/spiritual frameworks for express political ends.

    3.) There is a long history of secret societies having profound influence on military organizations--the likes of which have caused, in history, many actual military units to rebel against their own leadership. Rebelling military units is critical to realistic war strategy simulation.

    If you have any questions about Scottish Rite Freemasonry or any of the secret socities I mentioned before, I would be happy to give you a strictly academic account of their histories (including the praxis of their doctrines). This would help me meet the post quota so I can adopt that syndicate avatar I'm so deserving of :rockon: !

    I am also willing to provide you with links, articles and summations in regards to the reality of rail guns. The French physicist named Lorentz discovered the physical law we know as Lorentz force which is the essence of any empc technology. He discovered this in the 1800s and I assure you the advances we have made in applying this law are profoundly solvent in regards to applied violence. When we talk about "rail guns," we are not talking about science fiction. I've come to this belief after talking with physicists and such research.

    Lastly, I have the most basic understanding of DOS and don't consider myself a computer expert by any definition. In fact, I can't seem to figure out how to configure my PC so as to have smooth gameplay with CivIV, proper. I'm also ignorant of most of the mods for civ. I do intend to upgrade my IBM ThinkCentre after I buy an Apple computer (which I need to edit film as I'm an aspiring filmmaker). Once I do, I hope I can play against some of you online. :viking: :ar15:
     
  4. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    well i had to change it something!! gotta have change in the world LOL

    but, in my opinion, the rebels have lost the war if the freemasons spread into whatever leadership there is. so maybe more general organizations or factions, and we can add ideology

    What about making an ideology or society for each civ? then we can see whose ideas spreads the most!!!

    I have personally believed that rail gun weapons are in the research stage right now!! an artilery unit cleverly modeled would make a great railgun!

    as long as you can play civ4, you are a valuble member, as you can give ideas and be an excellent beta tester :goodjob:
     
  5. Leif

    Leif Prince

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    I think factions would be a challenge to get right in a game like this, because the line has been drawn already.

    Maybe Wealth, equality, solidarity, and unity could be ideological factions, who knows.
     
  6. Fabrysse

    Fabrysse Charming-snake learner

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    Well... I searched something to replace religions. We are in a revolutionary mod, so, I don't think that replacing religions by something that look like "sects" is a good idea.
    Yesterday evening, I listed religions. We have seven ones :
    • judaism
    • christianity
    • islam
    • hinduism
    • buddhism
    • confucianism
    • taoism
    Here is a list of ideologies that could replace religions [I write words I think good, but I'm not sure, so I explain too] :
    • Atheism (believing in no god)
    • Feminism (fight for women rights)
    • Vegetarism (eat only vegetables)
    • Anti-racism or black power...
    • Non violence
    • Free sexuality
    • Anti-electoralism (voting is not the solution : we have to do revolution !)
    • anti-sexism (no differences between men, women, and no more with your sexual orientation : hetero-sexual, gay...)
    • anti-militarism
    • anti-vivisection (no experimentation on animals)
    • pro Abortion
    • others ?...
    For each one, we could replace missionary by activists. And temples, could become houses of each ideology...
    Any people of any society can develop these ideologies. No problem for exemple, with american people becoming non-violent : that doesn't influence GW Bush politic.
    What do you think about that ? If you like the idea, we could select 7 ones and work on pics to replace christian cross, church and others default pics...
     
  7. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    OK, i like the idea of the unit activist as a replacer to the mechanic of the missionary units!

    as far as the "religions" themselves, i think we need to find a way to make them civ specific, so the Zapatista's could be sending their activists over the border to mexico, while mexico tries to spread it's "factional ideology over to Zapatist held lands. Then we can even have grisly executions of these activists in the form of attacking the "missionary analogues"
     
  8. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    update: tomarow, i plan on completely rewriting the tech xml, to see if i can get to the next stage of debugging the units: art defines xml errors, animation errors, and scale issues.
     
  9. Fabrysse

    Fabrysse Charming-snake learner

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    Can't you distribute religions by writing it in the map file ?
     
  10. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    yes, eactly right, that's where it ultimately gets writting, spatially. but some of these ideologies would technically have to be in most of the cities, simultaneosly from the start, according to there being presense of the ideology in any given city....umm get that?
     
  11. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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  12. Mode

    Mode Chieftain

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    I understand your point Garret; but lets not forget how Freemasonry has a long history of infighting which leads to splinter secret societies. I could study freemasonry for years, for example, only to realize the established lodges are totally hypocritical. Thinking this way, I may find others like me and then constitute a new fraternity based on what I believe to be the true doctrine of the ancient society. This has happened several times in history. The Templars were smote only to reappear as the Rosicrucians who would later organize as the Masons.

    Indeed, both the American and French Revolutions were waged by spliter factions within Freemasonry. The American Civil War was also a war fought between Freemasons as were WWI and WWII. Within Freemasonry, there is much disagreement.

    Speaking specifically to gameplay, I would still like to see secret societies replace religions. Lets have Scottish Rite Freemasonry in the USA, English Rite Freemasonry in Canada, Earth Liberation Front in the Syndicate, Red Army Faction in Cuba, Jaguar Society in Chiapas and the Knights of Columbus in Mexico. I suggest secret societies spread only by an SS unit. Only one secret society should be able to exist in any one city and the odds of converting a city's existing SS should be something like 25%. Furthermore, if a player manages to put his/her secret society in every city, they should be allowed a win via Secret Victory.

    I think the USA should, realistically, have the upper hand--even if you do add secret societies. Basically, the Rebels would have to take a strong defensive position and spread their own SS quickly. Once they secured their own cities, however, they would be able to attack. It makes sense the rebels would have a tremendous disadvantage at the start. If you think this would make the rebels' position unwinnable, you might consider adding randomly appearing irregular rebel forces within the Imperial states--in accord with manifested eco-catastrophy. You might also grant rebel forces a defensive bonus to reflect their grassroots recruitment juxtapose the military industrial complex style fabrication of forces.

    At the end of the day, I don't know of any serious strategy game which incorporates the role of secret societies. If you do it in your mod, you would be breaking new ground AND take civilization to a new level of realism.

    I can play civIV and your mod; but my new job and academic year take priority. If you are still entertaining the notion of secret societies and/or any of my other ideas, I would be remiss if I didn't offer to take a photo of myself which you could use to to represent the leader of the syndicate. :mischief: I'm pretty sure I could convince some cops to pose with me in such a picture. Don't you think a Syndicate leader named "Mode" would be cool? :lol:
     
  13. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    ok, how about you bonk a few cops on head, and when theyre chasin you, get someone to take a picture before they kick your ass! ---jk :mischief:

    ok seriously. ive been taking into account some of these ideas you have now posted. an aside: i have bumped into the "freemasons", or at least their ilk, whilst in the military, they are not cool (ie. murder conspiracies)

    so, with that in mind, i think that ideological societies is where this mod must be heading, and that seems to be the most developed idea we have seen; as well as your idea of setting the religious spread to zero, allowing only "missionary" ideologauges to spread societatal ideologies.

    im just not so sure about using the text "freemason". i'm about as sure i would use "catholocism" or "KKK" as societies: not very sure at all :(
     
  14. Mode

    Mode Chieftain

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    Garret, I understand your concerns. I really do. All conspiracies aside, there was that news report several months (or maybe it was a year ago) about a guy getting his head blown off while undergoing initiation in some lodge on the East coast. I think its possible that you would piss off some Masons if you included them in a civilization mod. I think more Masons would enjoy playing your mod than would object to such a scenario; but I can only speculate. Although they don't scare me (in fact I pester them as I'm privy to lodge published literature and don't believe the Masons of today understand Masonry very well, if at all--so I lecture them via email). If your main reason for not including them in the mod has more to do with a desire to "not rock the boat," then forget the Masons and give the USA a secret society called Skull and Bones. You can give Canada a secret society called the Knights of Bath or the Knights of the Garter. At the end of the day, I just want to see the Syndicate's inner circle represented as militant environmentalists up against other groups of individuals who "know too much." By the by, the Earth Liberation Front has achieved over 5,000 missions of sabotage and very few members have ever been caught. I think ELF should be in a revolution mod. Remember the CivIII expansion which had the eco terrorist units and those new age volkswagon suicide bombers? :shifty: I'll wait and see if you decide to integrate secret societies into your mod, replete with a secret victory condition.

    When it comes to civilization, I always feel lucky to play it. The more realistic it is, the more the game feels like some test which people need to take if they want to be political leaders in the real world. We all know the military uses computer simulations to train soldiers and I think civilization is probably the best simulation for any would-be President. The more realistic your Revolution mod is, the more likely a think-tank would be to play it.

    All this being said, I'm ready to turn our discussion to the implementation on electric magnetic pulse weaponry. My next post will attempt to prove that I, or anyone who has 5-10 thousand dollars and access to a machine tool shop, can build a working rail gun. If such a clandestine weapons lab lacks access to high-tech capacitors such as those developed by the University of Texas-Austin or advanced targeting systems such as those developed at Princeton, then they would have to settle for a less impresive EMPC--more on this later. :cool:
     
  15. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    :rotfl:
    i was about to sugest the ole skull and bones!
    okay then im settled on the societatal ideologies, unless someone else can come up with a better way to use the religion mechanic.

    the emp rail weapon is definately a go. i've been permanoid on that one for 6 years.

    now i have to get off my ass and do the unpleasant task of completely redo'ing all the damn work i've done on the tech tree coz of some stupid error. i will be posting all of the current xml's, and graphics very soon for us all to examine (but it is still in alpha phase, there wont be anything playable for a while to come :( )
     
  16. ArneHD

    ArneHD Just a little bit mad

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    I just had an idea: Docterines. A docterine is an expensive national project (meaning it can't be hurried) that adds a building in each city you own. These buildings will in turn give all units produced some sort of promotion or give other benifits to the military production etc. For example: docterine guerillea will add commando to all units.

    Any cilivization may only have one docterine at any one point, by making them the same building class, preventing super soldiers to be produced rapidly. Also, some docterines are more expensive than others depending on the bonus they give. Commando bonust would be very expensive, while combat one would be ralativly cheap.
     
  17. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    you know, that's pretty good. i think that would be in the
    XML\GameInfo\Civ4ProjectsInfo.xml
    but it could be somewhere else too ;)
     
  18. ArneHD

    ArneHD Just a little bit mad

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    By the way, are you going to give us some sort of alpha that we can work on? I don't think it should be to difficult to add the building, but I don't know what is already there.
     
  19. Fabrysse

    Fabrysse Charming-snake learner

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    Yes : same problem for me ! What can I do to help you ?

    GarretSidzaka, why not giving each one who wants something to do, and you collect all contributions in your files ?...
    I'm ready to work on this MOD. Tell me what to do, and if I'm able to do it, it'll be done as quickly as I can.
     
  20. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    here is the alpha for now. as i said before, im getting a stupid xml error.

    it is in 7-zip format so i can upload it to the site.

    fabrysse, can you add a GameTexts_Warlords.xml file and cross reference the descriptions in the UnitInfos.xml file and UnitClass.xml files. as in second rev 1.6c, they are all described in the info files as an actual text string, not a reference. edit: put the french it if you want ;)

    ArneHD, why don't you experiment with your ideas on Doctrines? see what you can do with the basic xml interface, without python or SDK modding, please? I think all that i didnt delete out of the Projects.xml file is the SDI and Manhattan.

    Here is the file all ye who are interested, BTW: those who don't already know, it is not playable.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/24675/Second_Revolution_2.0_alpha.7z
    (not to go onto file database, coz it aint dont ;) )
     

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