2.0 Discussion

[Mode]

Garret, Fabrysse and Arne,

You guys are great. If I knew more about computers I'd want to help too, but I don't even understand most of the CS jargon you guys use.

Since Garret has already decided to incorporate rail guns, I wont post links to the labs, articles and journals which state how rail gun technology isn't science fiction.

This being said, I will venture a guess as to why we don't have rail guns as a part of our conventional armed forces. From as near as I can tell, I think rail gun technology threatens the established military order in much the same way the long bow and arquebus/harquebus threatend their military orders. Specifically, the rail gun is probably the perfect anti-aircraft weapon. Given the importance of air power to the modern military doctrine, rail guns undermine it. Aside from the anti-aircraft/anti-missile potential of a rail gun with advanced targeting systems, EMPC technology is the threshold of brigade size remote infantry.

We know the men and women in our military constitute a voting block just as, if not more, potent than any union. If we were to test something like a Mars Rover equiped with a rail gun, then I think we would soon find good reason to phase out our Marines (shock troops) in favor of a more powerful and (in the long run) cheaper military unit. The range of rail guns makes them a perfect advancement for artillary units too.

What I suggest, for a Revolution Mod staged within the next 100 years, are the following EMPC units: 1.) Orbital Guns (Rods from the Gods) 2.) Remote EMPC (to replace shock infantry) 3.) EMPC anti-aircraft (to replace a city's SAM battery) 4.) EMPC artillary (to replace radar artillary).

In regards to the scientific arguments against the practicality of rail guns, I have a few opinions (just in case anyone finds this subject interesting). The main problem with the rail gun tests conducted by the United States Navy in the 1970s were two fold. The first problem was rapid corrosion of the rails which led to the inevitable fusion of the rails (a problem similar to how an M-16 barrel can warp from the heat of too rapid fire). The second problem was the size of the rail gun (so big the last tests were conducted on Iowa class battleships prior to their full decommision).

I think these problems can be solved in much the same way the problems with the musket's range were solved by rifling the gun barrel. Basically, the rails need to allowed to move. If the rails were segmented and fit to an axel, making each segment into two moveable parts, each magnetic pole could swing round the other after the projectile closed the circut--thereby solving the problematic magnetic attraction between the rail-poles. So long as there was a good enough pressure plate wired into each rail-pole and a mechanic by which one pole was allowed a greater circumfrance of swing, then both poles could avoid fusion via swinging round the other--to come back to their orignal position within the rail, ready for the next projectile.

As for the problem of size, it seems to me that the size can be reduced by compounding Lorentz Force with Coloumb's Law. Specifically, it occurs to me, that one rail gun should be used with another so as to generate a gross magnetic force (the natural magnetic force of the projectile closing a circut compounded by the artificial magnetic force we might glean from the magnetic repulsion of two guns counter-rotating round each other). To put it another way: If we were to have two rail guns the right distance appart, counter rotating against each other so as invoke the latent EM force outlined in Coloumb's Law and THEN pass our projectile through the center of two rail guns, we could net more force (with less length/size).

I'd also like to see what happens if a Tesla Coil was used as a projectile.

Anywho, if anyone would like to see one of my rude drawings for a rail gun like the one I just described, I can email it. Oh, and Garret, when you are ready to pick a new picture for the Syndicate leader, let me know. I would very much like to submit a photo of myself in an appropriate surrounding. At the very least, please consider giving the Syndicate a leader named Mode.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

What I suggest, for a Revolution Mod staged within the next 100 years, are the following EMPC units: 1.) Orbital Guns (Rods from the Gods) 2.) Remote EMPC (to replace shock infantry) 3.) EMPC anti-aircraft (to replace a city's SAM battery) 4.) EMPC artillary (to replace radar artillary).

i have rods from the gods orbital bombardment unit.

I think these problems can be solved in much the same way the problems with the musket's range were solved by rifling the gun barrel. Basically, the rails need to allowed to move. If the rails were segmented and fit to an axel, making each segment into two moveable parts, each magnetic pole could swing round the other after the projectile closed the circut--thereby solving the problematic magnetic attraction between the rail-poles. So long as there was a good enough pressure plate wired into each rail-pole and a mechanic by which one pole was allowed a greater circumfrance of swing, then both poles could avoid fusion via swinging round the other--to come back to their orignal position within the rail, ready for the next projectile.

As for the problem of size, it seems to me that the size can be reduced by compounding Lorentz Force with Coloumb's Law. Specifically, it occurs to me, that one rail gun should be used with another so as to generate a gross magnetic force (the natural magnetic force of the projectile closing a circut compounded by the artificial magnetic force we might glean from the magnetic repulsion of two guns counter-rotating round each other). To put it another way: If we were to have two rail guns the right distance appart, counter rotating against each other so as invoke the latent EM force outlined in Coloumb's Law and THEN pass our projectile through the center of two rail guns, we could net more force (with less length/size).

I'd also like to see what happens if a Tesla Coil was used as a projectile.

That sounds like a cool technical idea for compensating for the wear and tear that such a huge gun would incur. Bova wrote in sci-fi that nanomachines would construct their rail gun and it would be a few klicks long.

can it be a tesla coil from Command and conquer?

At the very least, please consider giving the Syndicate a leader named Mode.

 

[Fabrysse]

it is in 7-zip format so i can upload it to the site.

Hope my computer will be ok to open that file...

fabrysse, can you add a GameTexts_Warlords.xml file and cross reference the descriptions in the UnitInfos.xml file and UnitClass.xml files. as in second rev 1.6c, they are all described in the info files as an actual text string, not a reference. edit: put the french it if you want

OK. I'll have a look on it.

 

[ArneHD]

Ok, Garret, I have run into the same problem as you have. When I try to add the buildings I get a Tag: (Should be something here, but isn't) is incorrect.

It looks as though there is some sort of missing tag that ought to be there.

 

[Ferrum Rex]

This being said, I will venture a guess as to why we don't have rail guns as a part of our conventional armed forces. From as near as I can tell, I think rail gun technology threatens the established military order in much the same way the long bow and arquebus/harquebus threatend their military orders. Specifically, the rail gun is probably the perfect anti-aircraft weapon. Given the importance of air power to the modern military doctrine, rail guns undermine it. Aside from the anti-aircraft/anti-missile potential of a rail gun with advanced targeting systems, EMPC technology is the threshold of brigade size remote infantry.

I have to disagree with you. I think the real probelm is economics. As with other technologies such as hover tanks and super soldiers suits(both real) is they are all not cost-effective. All for their own various reasons. If an economy allowed these things to be mass produced,they would be. I think the addition of rail guns,or other factors should retain a much higher production rate.

 

[Mode]

It sounds to me like you actually agree with me, Ferrum. When you google "rail gun" and filter through all the science-fiction games, you see we have the technology. Why isn't it mass produced: this is the question.

 

[Fabrysse]

Well...
I have began to modify xml files to render them translatable. Actually, I don't work really on French translation. I want to give you back clean files where you should add/modify elements (or ask me to do it, that's possible).
After, I'll insert translations in a second time...
I hope it won't be too long. For classical xml files, that will run (it should be done on one or 2 days). For Warlords xml files it could be a little more difficult, because I don't have many exemples on how to do. But I'll find... No problem.

More news about it later...

 

[Ferrum Rex]

It sounds to me like you actually agree with me, Ferrum. When you google "rail gun" and filter through all the science-fiction games, you see we have the technology. Why isn't it mass produced: this is the question.

No i agree it is very possible, i just dont think that its cost effective. We have the technology to build it but to mass produce wouldnt be worth it. Thats why i suggest a significantly higher production time. For instance the last major public reports on that came out in the late 70's. The jump the information age has given to technologys of all sorts in unfathomable(it is impossible to record where we are at technologically right now as a civilisation). So what im saying is we have the means, we just dont have the economics. Think of Jet engines during WWII in the mid to late 30's Stalin forced aviation scientists to work together,one such scientist was able to create a jet engine,but did not have a metal strong enough for it. Soon he was "purged" though. And Russian avaitors/scientists,stole the plans for the jet engine and gave it to the nazis. The nazis in turn had a metal strong enough,(within 10 years of the original design). So in near thirty years time in the information age i believe that mechanics are no longer a probelm for the rail gun

 

[GarretSidzaka]

i think it exists and is currently used militaristically. just no one like us knows about it or ever will.

probly best used in space, i imagine

 

[GarretSidzaka]

I think both Garret and Ferrum are incorrectly understanding existant "orbital gun" science.

I think they are both misunderstanding what Kant orignally described as the difference between a concept and object.

I think the blueprints/schematics certainly exist and empircal evidence does exist on how electric magnetic science does trump chemical science in regards to Newtonian physics.

I'm also still assuming we agree more than we disagree.

The "Black Market" should be just like the support from foregin contries world wonders in the orginal Rev Mod.



I use Microsoft Word.

I think they are both misunderstanding what Kant orignally described as the difference between a concept and object.

enh

The "Black Market" should be just like the support from foregin contries world wonders in the orginal Rev Mod.

we could do this. but what stats would it have?

I use Microsoft Word.

just go ahead and write them in whatever program you like, then cut/paste the text and post it in the game texts thread, if you would, please. just check to see what other ppl have done. BTW: there are over sixty new units that need civilopaedia entries

thanks

Any Black Market world wonder, in my opinion, would have a Civilopedia (two ll's or one?) entry. This entry should explain why the Black Market world wonder grants 3 happy faces and subtracts 1 science,gold in every city the controller occupies.

Foreign Support Wonders should be considered National Wonders, imo.

An artifical vertical wetland over a city ceptic center = plus 5 in every city the player controlls.

World Wonder

More cost effective than the B-2 and all other model warplane combined, the F-23 Raptor essentially serves as the vehicles for Covert Operations Captains.

Mission Doctrines

1.) Thou Art The Master Of Your Duty To Life.

2.) The Web Of Life Is Reality.

3.) Eco Liberation Is Martial Law.

The Earth Liberation Front, in conspiracy with former Deserters from the United States Army's conflict in Vietnam, exterted what it considered to be a counter-revolution against the United States Marines' activities produced as American government, circa 2000 CE.

After stockpiling Howlitzer artillary in the 1980s, the afflunent and naturally wealthy members of American society never could have guessed as to how important their works in developing Deep Ecological Thought would lead be.

Founded by what some call an Anarchists' Syndicate, the Earth Liberation Front conscripted with no physical authority, many "crackers" (crackers: data hackers with a cause) used Deep Ecology and other ecologically relative material to justify their piracy of mulitnational corporations.

Skull and Bones Doctrine:

1.) Take What You Can When You Can.

2.) Fear None.

3.) Ivy Lives Ten Thousand Leauges Under the Sea.

The Skull & Bones society sprang up when European colonists began arriving to the New World en mass.

President Bush, in disagreement with the People's Will, assumed he was a Five Star General of the United States Army and took the otherwise obscure traditions of Pruitanical Christianity into the most militant direction. When Mode and ELF took control of NORAD in 2007, Skull and Bones attacked US citizens with nuclear weapons.

Jaguar Society:

1.) Raskata Knows Where the Cat Is.

2.) Myan Liberty Lives.

3.) Aztec Soverignty Exists.

The Jaguar Society began as a counter insurgency operation in Chiapas circa 1990.

Knights of the Garter:

1.) Hail The Commonwealth.

2.) God Save The Monarch.

3.) Punish The Wicked.

Knights of Columbus:

1.) Welcome To All.

2.) Blessed Be.

3.) Kindness To Thy Enemy.

Red Army Faction:

1.) Marxism Before Leninism.

2.) Democracy Before Stalinism.

3.) Proletariats For All To see.

SSS Warriors begin as Irregular 10:20 Military Units, including the Sabotage promotion (which reduces a city's production with 80% likelyhood). They can, along with any Secret Society Unit, be further promoted with the Larceny (minus city's population number as percentage of affected civilization's wealth), Industrial Sabotage (steal 30% any other civilization's tech points towards an already discovered--by affected civilization's--scientific advancement), Resource Theft (minus 10% of affected city's production added to controller's capital city production), Eco-Devestation (add one pollution marker on occupied space for every two spaces SS Unit occupies), Commando (can opperate in territories in any civilization regardless of diplomatic status) Ranger (can use enemy mobility bonuses).



To produce enough engery so as to opperate two counter rotating electro magnetized disks in perfect spherical symmetry, within one second, one best begin your nuclear reaction in low gravity.

2 hammers/2 food/2 commerce (Transports non organic materials to and from off world)

World Wonder

plus one hammer/science/commerce per turn in every city Player controlls.

Just like there are different types of Naval classes, I think people will eventually come to actualize different Classes of orbital guns.

Workers obviously built vinards in California. It should take a worker much longer to compete the construction of any flora or fauna resource bonus than it does for them to clean up pollution.

Who agrees with me when I suggest flora/fauna resource bonuses should be destructable?

Also, if someone could tell me how to select the Leader image (from The Second Revolution Mod, the original) for my Civ Fanatic avatar, I'd appreciate it.



USA: Skull & Bones: Privateer Warrior (begins with Larceny promotion)
Southern Mexico: Jaguar Society: Jaguar Warrior (begins with Ranger promotion)
Canada: Order of the Garter: Garter Warrior (begins with Commando promotion)
Northern Mexico: Knights of Columbus: Knight Warrior (begins with Industrial Sabotage promotion)
Cuba: Red Army Faction: Red Faction Warrior (begins with Eco-Devestation promotion)
Syndicate: Earth Liberation Front Warrior (begins with Sabotage).
Barbarian: Barbarian Warrior (begins with Resource Theft promotion).

All Secret Society Special units should have the option to be promoted with stars, eco-spheric defensive posturing bias, or any of the other promotions which have been introduced in Civ Mods. I also think any SSS unit should be able to learn all the SSS units' special abilities.

The rifle, as a chemical weapon, isn't necessarily improved by an automated trigger.

If, lets say, any programmer would like to play a Civ Revolution Mod of the sort written about in this thread and enjoy building an HQ for your secret society, then what should such HQs do?

I'd like to see them all do the same thing. I'd like secret society HQs to increase scientific output in their city by 30%.

 

[Fabrysse]

just check to see what other ppl have done. BTW: there are over sixty new units that need civilopaedia entries

Just to say you where I am in my xml work :
I still have to have a look on few xml files. For each one, if I have some text to put, I paste it. If not, I write something like "to be written..." (for Civilopedia, Strategy, etc...). Then we'll just have to include new texts at the right place.
I send files soon.

 

[Mode]

Especially if all my suggestions are incorporated.

 

[Fabrysse]

Especially if all my suggestions are incorporated.

I just work on the structure of the files.

 

[Mode]

Me walking down library steps wearing shades (with visible Anarchist's Cookbook) while Police walk inside the library. I would want to wear one of my trademarked (original silkscreening) tee shirts and a heavy green denim chambre, acid washed blue jeans, black Doc Martins and a black woolen beret (pulled back in a totally original fashion). Ideally, I would like a different flag to fly at the library. I would want it to be perfectly square, with 25 blue and 25 red squares arranged in checkerboard fashion. Atop each square would be sewn a white star. I would also like to see a movie about Civilization IV.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

hey mode, i sent you a private message

 

[Mode]

How do I delete threads I no longer need?

 

[GarretSidzaka]

fascinating unit list you've added. it has given me some ideas. problem with alot of those units, is that we don't have any stable 3d unit modelers in the mod. and i'm leaving the vanilla stats on the vehicles that come with the game, like the abrams and carriers, so i have a place to ground my references, as i do not want to rebalance the mod.


what do you mean with the space units? i dont understand what they are.

 

[Fabrysse]

What about adding :

• 3 New Wonders :
  • Class War
  • Women Liberation
  • Gay Pride
• 1 New Building :
  • In France, we have something called "Bourse du Travail". It's a building given to syndicalists to have their activity...

I have a problem with the CIVICS...
In the "LEGAL" table, we have "Anarchistic Law" and then "Socialistic Law". Can you explain me the difference ?

I explain : Communists, just after Revolution install a totalitarian state, that (they say) should disappear with time. That's not the case of Anarchists : they directly install, just after Revolution, a socialist/anarchist (it's the same) society...
That's why I can't understand the LEGAL table.

Same question :
In GOVERNMENT, the first is "Personnalistic" and the second is "Totalitarian"... Wouldn't it be better to rename "Totalitarian" by "Proletarian Dictatorship" (not sure of my translation...)

What are the news about Religions vs Ideologies ?

 

[GarretSidzaka]

@mode: alot of those building ideas are real good, and some of them are already planned

@fabrysse
totalitarian in essence is a proletariat dictatorship, and a brutal one. i plan on messing with the rules for that one later. none of the governments are going to start off with that civic.

socialist law vs. anarchist law:
im focusing on socialist law relating to the equal distribution of rights and goods, amongst a society, for efficiency and freedom. my idea of anarchist law encompasses basically the socialist law princeples, but moreso on the protection of all individual rights to true freedom from dictation and exploitation by any group organization or "government".

ALSO:
I have the Support wonders, and some vanilla wonders (mostly already built on the map), and I'm adding the white house (which will make washington's defenses nearly unbreachable).

but i would like more wonders, like fabrysse was suggesting. and i dont want only anarchist or leftist wonders, i would like some capitalist, or neo-liberal ones too (the bad guys to most of this group). i plan on both sides having more content specific to the 3 rebel civs or the 3 state civs. i hope that makes any sense.

 

[ArneHD]

Garret: You could get garric, MobBoss or red stranger to sugest some.

A more serious question, how did you get your suport wonders to add a building to every city in the first second revolution?

And, no I havn't made any progress on that damed XML error.