(2-NS) Give temporary Shallow Draft and Oceanic Perils to embarked land unit on the same tile as (or linked with) naval unit

[N.Core]

A counter-propose to this: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ll-land-units-with-sailing-technology.680549/

Counterproposal: Rather than outright giving land units Shallow Draft and Oceanic Perils to make them able to cross a small Ocean gap, require them to stay on a naval unit at the start of a turn to get a temporary Shallow Draft and Oceanic Perils ability only on that turn.

Reasoning: While it sounds good on paper to give embarked land units a way to cross the small gap of Ocean tile, it has major balance repercussion on early land warfare in island maps. Yes, it's another bias of mine as a developer of Tectonic map which generates lots of small ocean gap.
Even better if there is an ability to link an embarked unit with a naval unit (a la Civ 6 linked embarked units), but that requires a whole new mechanics. But the point is, if you want to make early embarked land units able to cross an ocean gap, they must start their turn on a naval unit tile, so there is a strategic gameplay element to this.

 

[gwennog]

The problem for me is that AI don't know how to play with that kind of skill. In my memory there was a promotion from the Danes ships which allowed units to cross oceans and it was removed.
Or else it requires behavior reprogramming and in this case, I find my solution much simpler. That there are human settlements on nearby lands even separated by a deep sea seems to me historically fair and interesting in terms of game.

 

[Rekk]

@pineappledan tried to do something similar as this for his Danish Longship 4UC, and ended up scrapping it because it ended up with units stranded in the ocean. With Oceanic Perils, that wouldn't happen, though

 

[N.Core]

No, it doesn't make the game more interesting because it defeats the ocean gap purpose as a barrier between one land to another.
If there are technical limitations, better just keep the mechanic as it is.

For naval ships are makes sense because they're kinda like big strong ships that can sail through ocean gap. But for smaller ships (embarkation ships), it'd more sense to forced them to use safer path (coastlines) unless there is a big ship accompany them. Historically, small ships could only get across oceans is because monsoon season exists.

As for stranded units, well, they need to get to the other coastal side anyway, otherwise they can't get through.

 

[gwennog]

Historically, small ships could only get across oceans is because monsoon season exists.

On your side of the globe maybe, but not on mine. The Norwegians in Iceland or the Britons in Armorica and Galicia did not wait for the monsoon, luckily it came from elsewhere . We can also mention the Canary Islands or Madeira. However, with global warming...

No, it doesn't make the game more interesting because it defeats the ocean gap purpose as a barrier between one land to another.

I don't agree but I think it really depends on the map chosen. The ones I play don't have the problem of being able to allow huge expansion in the classic era, but I'm aware that this style of map can exist.

 

[N.Core]

The Norwegians in Iceland or the Britons in Armorica and Galicia did not wait for the monsoon

Well, Denmark civ or The Vikings are not the rest of the world. So you can't just use one part of the world history and use it for anybody else.
As for monsoon traveling, Polynesia (representing Austronesian descent civ) already got that ability.

The ones I play don't have the problem of being able to allow huge expansion in the classic era, but I'm aware that this style of map can exist.

Well, my map is one of them. Outer islands are designed to be expansion spot.

 

[gwennog]

Well, Denmark civ or The Vikings are not the rest of the world. So you can't just use one part of the world history and use it for anybody else.

That is why I have given you other examples and I can find others. But I understand your counter-proposal, I just looked at the map you proposed, indeed in this case my proposal is unsuitable.

 

[Recursive]

Proposal failed due to lack of sponsorship.