(2-NS) Spies should not be able to reach cities across the oceans before Astronomy

[gwennog]

Everything is in the title. One of the reasons is that I find unfortunate to be able to take control of city states, for example, when diplomats cannot reach them.

Exception for Polynesia and any other civilization that can cross the oceans before Astronomy.

 

[Tekamthi]

I like this for realism sake; the gameplay reasons are less of a draw. On that note, though, I'd say establishing embassies should be restricted by ocean too.

 

[CppMaster]

I like this for realism sake; the gameplay reasons are less of a draw. On that note, though, I'd say establishing embassies should be restricted by ocean too.

Why? US has an embasy in Poland for example

 

[Rekk]

How did you meet a city state across the ocean?

 

[Tekamthi]

Why? US has an embasy in Poland for example

True, however the statement is off-target. More on point, did any proto-americans, or any other peoples, have embassies overseas before they knew how to traverse the waters to get there?

Anyway my comment here is off-topic to the OP, and a bit of an edge case anyway. I will perhaps raise this in another proposal, I've never liked how establishing embassy can be used to discover the capital of a civ for which no other knowledge of their location exists, but i digress

How did you meet a city state across the ocean?

Sometimes a +vision scout can see across an ocean that no unit can yet traverse. Alternatively, if CS sails over on their own somehow, you might meet them that way. There are a few ways it can happen, though its not the norm.

 

[CppMaster]

True, however the statement is off-target. More on point, did any proto-americans, or any other peoples, have embassies overseas before they knew how to traverse the waters to get there?

Great Diplomats also cannot build an embasy unless they get there.

 

[Tekamthi]

Great Diplomats currently function more or less as I would expect them to in this regard -- I was referring to embassies with the normal, non-CS civs, though I should've specified given the context of discussion... all off-topic though to OP, I'll probably make a proposal that establishing embassy in civ x requires discovery of at least one of civ x's cities first, we can discuss there.

 

[gwennog]

How did you meet a city state across the ocean?

Vision upgrade for scouts for example as said @Tekamthi

 

[Rekk]

Seems like a bunch of effort to catch all of the edge-cases for this sort of thing, for little gain. For example, Caravels can cross the ocean and carry spies, come before Astronomy, but unique naval units that don't have "Oceanic Perils" could technically be allowed at any technology.

 

[gwennog]

Seems like a bunch of effort to catch all of the edge-cases for this sort of thing, for little gain. For example, Caravels can cross the ocean and carry spies, come before Astronomy, but unique naval units that don't have "Oceanic Perils" could technically be allowed at any technology.

Yes I agree that just using Astronomy as a trigger doesn't seem enough. And suddenly it becomes much more complicated than the initial vision.
I suggested it because it's an irritant in my games that comes up very often and only the human player seems to do it, not the AI.

 

[Stalker0]

In order to spy on someone you have to at least vision of their city, which does suggest SOME measure of interaction, even if very minor. As spies can be as nebulous as we like, I see no reason for added restrictions.

 

[nekokon]

I feel like some proposals like this are trying to put too much realism into the game without actually doing anything good for the gameplay itself.
Better to have ideas that's good for gameplay and try to reason its usage based on realism, not the other way around.

 

[gwennog]

I feel like some proposals like this are trying to put too much realism into the game without actually doing anything good for the gameplay itself.
Better to have ideas that's good for gameplay and try to reason its usage based on realism, not the other way around.

I am not looking uniquely for realism in this proposal, as I said above, the possibility of controlling city states on the other side of the oceans in antiquity or even in the early Middle Ages upsets me and spoils my pleasure of play.
Gameplay is a personal notion and as far as I am concerned, discussing for example a bonus of 7.323% or 7.172% for a right flank attack does not interest me. I find my fun in other things but I don't judge other people's fun.

The interest of the congress if I understood correctly is to present game improvements according to its personal criteria which can be refused by modders and/or players.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.