2012 NCAA Football Thread

Well yes, they'll still be seeded with 1v4 and 2v3, the same-conference teams will just happen to be seeded so that they play each other in round one. While I agree it doesn't make much sense from a fan's perspective, it makes a lot of sense for the conferences and broadcast partners.

The whole point of having a selection committee instead of a predetermined formula that dictates how teams are seeded is so you can massage the matchups. Otherwise we'd just seed according to the AP, or some amalgamation of rankings like the BCS.
 
Nah, my rugby coach was from Princeton, so I've always had a soft spot for them. Um, like, "Go Tigers!", and stuff . . .

Huh, an american who plays rugby? Nice.

That's all I've got to contribute. My following of NCAA football mostly consists of finding a way to get hold of EA's NCAA game every couple of years. Doesn't make the news here, and there's zero TV coverage for me to watch.
 
Rugby in the US is fairly popular in colleges and as an adult club sport, but there's no American professional league, as far as I know. My personal rugby career was hampered by my being short, fat and slow, but I made up for all that by being uncoordinated. I had heart, though, dammit! Rudy! Rudy! Rudy! Uh, yeah . . .

Anyway, back to spring ball, roster management continues. Two players -- William Ming and Jonathan Atchison -- were missing from Alabama's practice yesterday. Both '09 recruits, Atchison has recorded eight tackles in fourteen career games, and Ming has one career appearance, in 2010. Assuming both have graduated or will this semester, they would be prime candidates to retire to make roster room before fall camp. Full pads tomorrow :D
 
Likely Big Ten Divisions are out. They're going geographic, and the only question is how to split Indiana or Purdue.

EAST
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Maryland
Rutgers
Purdue/Indiana

WEST
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
Nebraska
Iowa
Minnesota
Purdue/Indiana

East side looks a little top heavy, but the league is probably going to 16 in 5 years or less and we can redraw the boundaries then.
 
Ever since Texas A&M switched conferences, some of our old rivals are very sore that we left them. I think they are sore because we are in the SEC and recruiting would become more difficult for them, and it did. Texas Tech recently came out and indicated that they would like to renew the series with us. Smart move since the door is open for Texas A&M to get their Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech type out of conference rivalry with Texas's administration and athletic department still throwing fits like 3 year olds who got their toys taken away. (Longhorn Tea sippin' Fans are on a case by case basis).

So my topic here is New Rivalries for new members. Texas A&M had old school SWC days rivalries with Arkansas (in conference) and LSU (out of conference), but those died since moving to the Big 12. While the Aggie-Razorback Southwest Classic rivalry has been trying to get some traction and Texas A&M and South Carolina announcing that we will play each other across conference annually starting next year, feel very inorganic for me as an Aggie fan.

What are Civ fans' thoughts on what organic rivalries will Texas A&M and Missouri forge?

For Missouri, I think Arkansas and Kentucky are primed for a good showdown due to regional proximity and the big effing deal Missouri made when they won their first SEC game against Kentucky.

For A&M, I think LSU will emerge particularly since they are the closest school, there are a ton of Aggies and Tigers in the Houston area, A&M recruits so well out of Louisiana and many Ol' Ags still remember the ridiculous deal where we played @ Baton Rouge from Oct. 12, 1946 to Sept. 13, 1986 (with one game played in Dallas on Sept. 24, 1955). Not to mention that Texas A&M is 9-3 since 1989 vs LSU.

The other team, and I know they already have rivals galore, Alabama. My brother in law loooooves Bama as much as he may love his family and he's already talking about our budding rivalry considering what happened @ Tuscaloosa last fall. Additionally, although we have only played 5 times ever, with our record vs Bama being 2-3, we have shared a couple of legendary coaches, the Bear and Gene Stallings. And no Aggie that was alive at the time, has forgotten the 1968 Cotton Bowl where A&M defeated the Tide and Bear Bryant ran across the field and carried our then coach, Gene Stallings on his shoulders off the field.

http://media.timesfreepress.com/img/photos/2011/09/27/092811_D_Bear_Bryant_v_t618.jpg?ba5b5b122dd3d37cc13d83e92a6a0ec0d5bfa32a

And on a not so bright note, A&M did "steal" Coach Fran. Although that was a mistake of epic proportions for our program.

If we can beat Alabama next September at Kyle, I think we may have something on our hands.

Mississippi State made a big deal remembering the Independence "Snow" Bowl game, where they came out in all whites and we came out in all blacks, and we share the same shade of maroon. This one feels like more of a stretch than the Arkansas rivalry.

Anyway, what rivalries do you think A&M and Mizzou can forge in the SEC?
 
East side looks a little top heavy, but the league is probably going to 16 in 5 years or less and we can redraw the boundaries then.

In the late 90s people thought the Big 12 North was top heavy but that pendulum swung to the South division quite hard and then Nebraska jumped to the Big 10.

Since college football is so cyclical, I wouldn't worry too much. I would stick Indiana in the West and Purdue in the East for now. Then wait to see what happens with the forthcoming realignment...
 
I really think A&M fans overestimate how much UT fans think about their program. They also tend to overrate their own staying power. What would A&M's first season in the SEC have looked like if they didn't have Manziel? Something like Missouri's? I'm not sold on A&M's defensive talent, and if they don't shore that up they'll be another Arkansas...good for a fun run every 4 years or so.

A&M at its highest peak in decades is competing well against a UT at its lowest point since Mack arrived. The results? Not really anything yet, Aggies should shut up until they win a BCS bowl, an SEC championship, or a NCG.

Just my opinion. MacAttack you're free to critique my dearth of knowledge on A&M's roster :p
 
Just my opinion. MacAttack you're free to critique my dearth of knowledge on A&M's roster :p

I do admit that our main weaknesses seem to be Linebacker and DT. Our strengths on D are our DBs. But considering the recruiting classes from last year and this year, Mark Snyder's ability to make water into wine (compare what happened between 2011 and 2012) and Sumlin's ablility to get the best out of everyone, the future is quite bright.

On our staying power, we are not your daddy's Aggies anymore. We are a larger school. When I was in school we were barely cracking 40k students, when Bear Bryant was our coach we were a military school mainly with with a student body smaller than our undergraduate freshmen class and no women were allowed. Now A&M are 4th nationally and expanding the student body beyond 50k+, now that we have expanded our facilities and staff to accommodate the high demand that state universities are experiencing. So far, ~31,600 prospective students have applied for fall 2012.

With that said, more students means more alumni, which means more donation to our Alma Mater. Which brings more interest to athletics. Moving to the SEC, was the final step for our athletic program to enter the conversation of elite programs in the NCAA. We will have our down years, just like any other football team, but the up years will be far more often than what history indicates.
 
I'm on of those new students, so I hope you're right. Tickets ain't as cheap as they should be :p
 
The Big Ten would really just need to move one name school from East to West to balance things out.

The only natural rival A&M has in the SEC is Arkansas. Happily, unnatural rivals abound in the SEC. Alabama's historic rivals have been Auburn and Tennessee, but for a lot of fans LSU has passed Tennessee and even Auburn, at least in practice if not in name. Basically, modern rivalries seem to be defined more by recent history. Short memories and all that. So if A&M could win two or three more in a row, they'd probably pass LSU on most 'Bama fans' lists.

I don't see Missouri developing many football rivalries until they become more football relevant. Kentucky seems natural since they're both basketball schools. And Arkansas is a nice fit due to geography, but I bet that one's not going to be terribly close on the field for a long time to come . . .
 
Rugby in the US is fairly popular in colleges and as an adult club sport, but there's no American professional league, as far as I know. My personal rugby career was hampered by my being short, fat and slow, but I made up for all that by being uncoordinated. I had heart, though, dammit! Rudy! Rudy! Rudy! Uh, yeah . . .

You should be a prop, apart from the uncoordinated bit. All true front rowers think they have better passing skills than their halves do. ;)


Gotta say, your musical conferences get very confusing. Especially from someone who doesn't see the point of them, other than it giving you a different set of opponents. I assume it's somewhat different than that, from my end it looks like one big competition with various subdivisions, I suspect it's much more half a dozen entirely separate competitions that happen to occasionally play matches against each other, so there might be big differences in TV coverage, available $, etc.
 
4-man, 2nd row left! Yeah, we weren't very good. We did beat Alabama once though.

The conferences are normally somewhat stable. We're in a transitional time at the moment.

Historically, it was more like your entirely separate competitions idea, with each conference defined by a geographic region, though there was some overlap in places.

That situation was unsatisfying because there were over one hundred teams playing, and the regular season only lasted ten games. Coupled with the infrequency of inter-conference matchups -- particularly among the better teams -- it was very difficult to determine which team was the best overall. We used a voting system where sportswriters and coaches (really coaches' representatives) voted in two separate polls to determine the champion. That was unsatisfying for a lot of reasons, mostly just because the teams at the top of the poll didn't play each other very often. But really they did a pretty good job, and the AP poll -- the sportswriters' poll -- is still relevant to a lot of fans today even after fifteen years of national championship games.

Anyway, in 1990, two teams -- Colorado and Georgia Tech -- were both really good and each of them was awarded the national championship by one of the two polls. That really got the ball rolling towards a national title game that would pit #1 vs. #2 to determine the national champion on the field. So now there is your one big competition in addition to the several separate competitions, but only two teams get to play in the big competition. We've got one more year of that before they up it to four teams.

So that fixed a lot of problems and created some others, but the biggest thing it did was create this huge pile of money, which is where the musical conferences come in. Pretty much everyone believes that eventually we are going to end up with four power conferences of sixteen teams each, and the teams in those four conferences are the ones who are going to get to share the big pile of money. So everyone wants to be one of those sixty-four teams. What makes it a little dicey right now is that there are five conferences vying to be one of those four conferences of sixteen. So someone is going to lose out. The other thing that makes expansion a little weird is that the conferences have been historically -- and for the most part still are -- defined by geographic regions, but as they grow to sixteen the primary goal is to add teams that will draw in television viewers from areas not in their existing geographic region.

So, short answer, yes, the musical conferences are very confusing. But in the end it's just about money not football anyway, and once they get it sorted out they should stabilize again. So we've just kind of got to roll with it for the time being.

The fans' hope is that once we finally get to a big sixty-four, those sixty-four teams will play each other more often and play the little teams less frequently, resulting better football to watch every week. So it should be worth it. Hopefully . . .
 
That situation was unsatisfying because there were over one hundred teams playing, and the regular season only lasted ten games. Coupled with the infrequency of inter-conference matchups -- particularly among the better teams -- it was very difficult to determine which team was the best overall.

It's easier now? ;) How often in the last 10 years has the team winning the title game clrearly been the best? Or more to the point, how often is there controversy about which two teams get to play that title game? My impression as a non-fan is that there's often multiple teams with realistic claims, and that potentially awesome teams get shafted because they come from a smaller background/easier schedule, like TCU or Boise State.

The fans' hope is that once we finally get to a big sixty-four, those sixty-four teams will play each other more often and play the little teams less frequently, resulting better football to watch every week. So it should be worth it. Hopefully . . .

6 week regular season to get seedings, ensure rivalry matches happen, then 6 week, 64 team tournament where the losers still get to keep playing, so the final week has the two 5-0 teams playing for the title, and the two 0-5 teams playing to not finish last could work. Apart from scheduling issues, not knowing who'll get home games in advance.

4-man, 2nd row left! Yeah, we weren't very good. We did beat Alabama once though.

Every summer, I'm tempted to work on fitness and start playing again. Every March, I realise I haven't, and that I really don't have time in between playing/coaching hockey.
 
It's easier now? ;)
Much. You have no idea. It's a self-serving example, but with the SEC having won every BCS title game we've been invited to, there's little doubt which conference has been the strongest in the BCS era. Without the title game, everyone would still be arguing about it. I'm not saying it's perfect, and I'm not saying it shouldn't have been expanded (to a three team, play-in format), but it's much much better than what we had before. The few people who think otherwise probably aren't old enough to have experienced the alternative or are too old to consider change.
How often in the last 10 years has the team winning the title game clrearly been the best?
Eight. Both exceptions involve LSU and Nick Saban. In 2011 LSU beat Alabama on Alabama's home field during the regular season, and also beat three or four top five teams and the eventual champions of at least two other conferences during the regular season (I'm not actually going to look all this up, but trust me, it was impressive. Maybe the best regular season ever.) There was absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind about which team was the best after the regular season. Unfortunately, somebody had to play them in the national title game. Alabama was selected despite our home field defeat in the regular season, and with a month to prepare we rode superior coaching and motivation to an easy victory. In '03 Saban's LSU squad won the national title game, but USC had the better season overall, so the AP gave USC a split title with the BCS champ LSU. So even though the title game didn't give us the right champion in those two years, having the title game played still helped people determine who the champion should have been. Either way, two years of controversy is better than ten.
Or more to the point, how often is there controversy about which two teams get to play that title game?
Well, there's controversy and there's controversy. Before the game is played there will always be controversy about who should be in it because that's how the media game is played. After the game, the only year I can think of when fans thought the wrong two teams were involved was '04, when undefeated Auburn was passed over for undefeated Oklahoma. USC destroyed Oklahoma and afterwards everyone thought Auburn would have given them a better game, which they probably would have. Everyone also thought USC would have destroyed Auburn, which they probably would have. So meh.
My impression as a non-fan is that there's often multiple teams with realistic claims, and that potentially awesome teams get shafted because they come from a smaller background/easier schedule, like TCU or Boise State.
This is important if you want to understand college football. Even though so few regular season games are played (twelve now instead of ten), it's very unusual for any team to emerge from the regular season undefeated. So when an undefeated team does emerge, the natural urge is to give them the opportunity to get beaten. The problem with that is that you have these 'smaller schools with easier schedules' who haven't faced the gauntlet of a top tier conference. So you're pitting one team that has faced maybe one or maybe zero regular season threats against a team that has faced maybe three or four or five, and beaten them all. And then when the smaller team wins that one game, they're the champion? Here's the point: In college football, unlike every other sport, it's the regular season that matters. The postseason exists only to answer questions that the regular season cannot.
6 week regular season to get seedings, ensure rivalry matches happen, then 6 week, 64 team tournament where the losers still get to keep playing, so the final week has the two 5-0 teams playing for the title, and the two 0-5 teams playing to not finish last could work. Apart from scheduling issues, not knowing who'll get home games in advance.
Doesn't matter. You can't remake the model. The big pile of money comes from television, but buckets of money still come from every school's six or seven home games every year, and nobody is giving those up. What I'd like to see is a four region model with two conferences in each region. There are very close to 128 teams right now, so it would be pretty easy to set up. Then you put in a European soccer style promotion/regulation system and everything is fixed. But it's a fantasy. It would never work in college football because 1) the money comes from the tv rights, and the tv provider wants to know exactly which viewers are going to be tuning in years in advance and 2) the facilities it takes to compete at the higher level aren't sustainable by second tier schools. So the promotion/relegation would actually be defined by fundraising in the offseason. No really a fan sport.
Every summer, I'm tempted to work on fitness and start playing again. Every March, I realise I haven't, and that I really don't have time in between playing/coaching hockey.
My competitive sport participation is now restricted to the non-contact sports, like running, where I continue to be fair to middling at least vs. the couch potato population. I do think I'm slightly above average in endurance sports, like 'combating plantar fasciitis', at least in my age group.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply. Sounds like the pre-BCS/championship game was a lot messier than I thought.

This is important if you want to understand college football. Even though so few regular season games are played (twelve now instead of ten), it's very unusual for any team to emerge from the regular season undefeated. So when an undefeated team does emerge, the natural urge is to give them the opportunity to get beaten. The problem with that is that you have these 'smaller schools with easier schedules' who haven't faced the gauntlet of a top tier conference. So you're pitting one team that has faced maybe one or maybe zero regular season threats against a team that has faced maybe three or four or five, and beaten them all. And then when the smaller team wins that one game, they're the champion?

So, basically over half of the division one schools, if not more, are out of the running before the season even starts, because their schedule is viewed as not tough enough, because they're not part of a top 5 conference? Seems a somewhat loaded system. And I imagine that if one of the 5 conferences is having a crap year in general, the team that wins the conference is unlikely to get marked down for not having enough hard games. You can only beat the teams put in front of you, and if undefeated small conference school played undefeated, #1 ranked, big conference school in the last week of the regular season, and won, which one would be more likely to get an invite to the championship game?

Here's the point: In college football, unlike every other sport, it's the regular season that matters. The postseason exists only to answer questions that the regular season cannot.

And also to make lots of money. With the system you've got, with so many teams participating, and only 10 or 11 games/season, I don't see much point trying to determine an overall winner. Beat your rivals, win your conference, those are actually meaningful goals, making/winning the championship game, having the #1 ranking seems very contrived, very subjective, mostly just a cash-grab. But that's just me.

You left out soccer, btw. Every team plays every other team twice, and whoever has the most points gets the championship, no post-season required. The exceptions are the US & Aussie leagues, because we expect a postseason/finals from soccer since all our major sports have one.

Doesn't matter. You can't remake the model. The big pile of money comes from television, but buckets of money still come from every school's six or seven home games every year, and nobody is giving those up. What I'd like to see is a four region model with two conferences in each region. There are very close to 128 teams right now, so it would be pretty easy to set up. Then you put in a European soccer style promotion/regulation system and everything is fixed. But it's a fantasy. It would never work in college football because 1) the money comes from the tv rights, and the tv provider wants to know exactly which viewers are going to be tuning in years in advance and 2) the facilities it takes to compete at the higher level aren't sustainable by second tier schools. So the promotion/relegation would actually be defined by fundraising in the offseason. No really a fan sport.

Yeah. You could do it as a tournament, and still give everyone their home games. The problem with that is logistics & marketing, as you'd only know the schedule a week in advance, so really not workable.

I actually find the whole college sports thing very weird, particularly for the big market stuff. You have a bunch of elite, essentially professional athletes working their butts off, helping make a heap of money for the teams/schools they play for. While not being paid a cent themselves, and actually being prohibited from making money from any source from their efforts. There's no other league that size where the players get anything close to 0% of revenue.

My competitive sport participation is now restricted to the non-contact sports, like running, where I continue to be fair to middling at least vs. the couch potato population. I do think I'm slightly above average in endurance sports, like 'combating plantar fasciitis', at least in my age group.

I am still very much prop sized, my knees object to jogging. Walking is fine, sprinting is fine, I'll happily pedal for fitness, but jogging 5km is not happening. Hockey works well.
 
Soccer world wide has gotten it right IMHO. I would love for college football and the NFL to model themselves after it. Albeit, it is not possible since playing football is so much more taxing on the players than soccer, and can only play a fraction of the games and still remain functioning human beings.

I love that the everybody plays each other twice and the team with most points wins, and goals are used as tie breakers.

European and Latin American soccer federations do have playoff systems that are labeled "Domestic Cups" that can be and are exciting, and satisfy the fans' need for playoff win or go home type games. Not to mention their own prestige and trophies. for example:

Copa MX in Mexico, Copa Del Rey in Spain, FA Cup in England

All which look like a giant March Madness NCAA tournament that takes months to complete.

College Football is slowly getting there. College Football is like plate tectonics. It slowly moves around, some mistakes are made (see Snowball Earth) but eventually it gets to a point that works well enough to bring out something great (modern day continental placements that helped humanity become the dominant species)
 
So, basically over half of the division one schools, if not more, are out of the running before the season even starts, because their schedule is viewed as not tough enough, because they're not part of a top 5 conference? Seems a somewhat loaded system.
Yes, it is. Teams from the lesser conferences survive because they get paid huge sums of money to travel to better teams' home fields to give the major conference teams a break from their conference schedule. They then use that money to fund their entire athletic departments. The argument is that if a minor conference team wants a shot at a national title, they should move to a major conference or at least play upper tier major conference teams in all of their out of conference games. The problem is that both of those things are harder to do than they sound. Boise State is the best example, because they play good football but wouldn't bring any revenue to a major conference, so they can't join one. And since they play good football, premier major conference schools don't want to schedule them out of conference. But passing over a quality major conference team to let Boise in one of only two or four spots in a national playoff isn't really a good solution either. Thus the push towards a smaller top division.
And I imagine that if one of the 5 conferences is having a crap year in general, the team that wins the conference is unlikely to get marked down for not having enough hard games.
That's actually not true. Nominally, there are six power conferences, but the Big East is so bad year in and year out that they aren't really considered when it comes time to pick championship game participants. The other power conferences would also need to be really down before the ACC could get its champion in the title game. The Big Ten's poor performance in past title games has -- fairly or unfairly -- devalued their champion a bit. With only two spots available and months to debate, every angle is covered.
You can only beat the teams put in front of you
But teams pick their conferences and make their own out of conference schedules, so they decide which teams are put in front of them. They can't necessarily dictate their conference affiliation, but especially in the current climate if they're truly dedicated to moving up the spots are available. Out of conference schedules are also limited to teams with common unfilled off dates, but it's not hard to tell the teams that are trying to schedule up in their out of conference slate as opposed to those who aren't.
If undefeated small conference school played undefeated, #1 ranked, big conference school in the last week of the regular season, and won, which one would be more likely to get an invite to the championship game?
The smaller school, though neither would be very likely. For the major conference school, that kind of loss that late in the season would be a season killer. For the minor conference school, it would jump it to the top of the also-rans -- provided they were undefeated -- so if there weren't two other legitimate contenders, it would probably get a shot. There would usually be two other legitimate contenders though.
And also to make lots of money. With the system you've got, with so many teams participating, and only 10 or 11 games/season, I don't see much point trying to determine an overall winner. Beat your rivals, win your conference, those are actually meaningful goals, making/winning the championship game, having the #1 ranking seems very contrived, very subjective, mostly just a cash-grab. But that's just me.
No, it's not just you. The money is the primary motivator. But as I've tried to explain, the current, money-driven system is still much better than what we had before. You're also correct in observing that most fans care most about winning the games that are determined only on the field. For me, for example, as an Alabama fan I consider any year when we win our division -- the SEC West -- to be a successful year. When we do that, we get to play the SEC East champion for the SEC title, but the SEC East champion isn't always necessarily the SEC East team that's playing the best ball at the end of the year, or the SEC East team that matches up best against us, so that can be unsatisfying. When we win the SEC title game we're pretty much guaranteed a spot in the national title game, but our opponent there faces the same problems as the SEC East representative in the SEC title game, only more so. But still, it's better than not playing it at all.
You left out soccer, btw. Every team plays every other team twice, and whoever has the most points gets the championship, no post-season required. The exceptions are the US & Aussie leagues, because we expect a postseason/finals from soccer since all our major sports have one.
True, but with the number of games in a college football season requiring a home-and-home for every set of opponents would result in very very small conferences. And that same argument about every other sport's postseason has crept into college football as well. College football is hands down the best sport in the land, but its fans look at the other sports and say "See? Look how they've devalued their regular seasons. We should get in on that." It makes me sad.
I actually find the whole college sports thing very weird, particularly for the big market stuff. You have a bunch of elite, essentially professional athletes working their butts off, helping make a heap of money for the teams/schools they play for. While not being paid a cent themselves, and actually being prohibited from making money from any source from their efforts. There's no other league that size where the players get anything close to 0% of revenue.
It's the elephant in the room, especially as the schools and conferences have abandoned any pretense of integrity as they scramble around for the best media deals in the current climate of realignment. Just this week the Big Ten proclaimed they'd rather abandon the sport than share any of their revenue with the people who labor to produce it. It's an obvious bluff, but it illustrates how reluctant the owners are to share their profits. Paying the players would kill the sport as we know it so I'd hate to see it, but morally there's no way to justify the current system.
I am still very much prop sized, my knees object to jogging. Walking is fine, sprinting is fine, I'll happily pedal for fitness, but jogging 5km is not happening. Hockey works well.
I just run on a treadmill. It has a lot more give than the ground so it doesn't bother my joints much. It is nice when I get to go out and run on the ground like a kid, but it's not something I'd do regularly. Pedaling has never worked for me. It's nice if I want to read a book, but it doesn't seem to help me maintain a weight . . .
 
Appy State and Georgia Southern are joining FBS and the Sun Belt.

Guess Michigan can continue that series after all!
 
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