2K Greg's recent posts on the 2K forums

[PieceOfMind]

If they understand why we skip the videos, why did they add the fullscreen leader screens? It's the same useless eye candy you watch once and then gets annoying.

Oh yes, qft.

On top of that same ugly (sorry, these leaderheads are ugly, not one bit good looking except for perhaps Monty and Nebuchadnezzar) mugs we have the same lines spoken only to different texts. That Bismarcks "auf intressen" said over and over and over again made me mute the bloody thing completely and listen to my own music. Sadly I can't switch my screen off everytime trade screen ('cause you can't call it a diplo screen) comes on - I wouldn't know what to click.

So yes, following the logic that wonder movies were boring and still images are so awesome why can't we have the same for the leaderheads?

You know, if it really bothers you, you can actually replace the leader graphics with a blank grey screen by adjusting a setting in one of the ini files. It even will slightly improve performance with loading the diplo screens, especially on older hardware.

The animated 3d leaderheads speaking their native languages (apart from perhaps some pedantic exceptions of Ancient leaders) have received widespread praise and at least before release were one of the most exciting new features to a lot of people, at least in terms of the game's art. There are a couple of statements from leaders that get a bit repetitive but that is only a tiniest of nuisances and overall the leaderheads are very impressive. They are exactly the sort of thing that people have been begging for for years. Yes, they don't really add any depth to strategy or balance to the gameplay, but not everything about the game has to advance one of those two goals.

I'm sure if we'd gotten the mute leaderheads of civ4 there'd be people complaining about how stupid it is that they don't say a word.

 

[drachasor]

You know, if it really bothers you, you can actually replace the leader graphics with a blank grey screen by adjusting a setting in one of the ini files. It even will slightly improve performance with loading the diplo screens, especially on older hardware.

The animated 3d leaderheads speaking their native languages (apart from perhaps some pedantic exceptions of Ancient leaders) have received widespread praise and at least before release were one of the most exciting new features to a lot of people, at least in terms of the game's art. There are a couple of statements from leaders that get a bit repetitive but that is only a tiniest of nuisances and overall the leaderheads are very impressive. They are exactly the sort of thing that people have been begging for for years. Yes, they don't really add any depth to strategy or balance to the gameplay, but not everything about the game has to advance one of those two goals.

I'm sure if we'd gotten the mute leaderheads of civ4 there'd be people complaining about how stupid it is that they don't say a word.

The guy had a point. Talking to them is a bit repetitive and if they are doing different voices anyhow then they could have added some more personality than they did. I do like how they talk in their native tongue, but there are problems with the implementation even so.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

It would be best if 2K Greg come back here on the day they release a patch to fix some bugs that are reasonably easy to fix, and explain, or better yet, reassure us that they are not going to forget this forum that is the core fan base of this franchise.

Hell, whenever they ever give us a huge patch to fix the AI problem. It would be a great gesture that they would give us a free DLC for us fan waiting impatiently for them to fix their unfinished product.

 

[PieceOfMind]

The guy had a point. Talking to them is a bit repetitive and if they are doing different voices anyhow then they could have added some more personality than they did. I do like how they talk in their native tongue, but there are problems with the implementation even so.

There's a reasonable amount of recordings in the folder for each leader, and some of them I haven't noticed in the game, so I'm wondering if they've simply made the mistake of not utilising all of the available audio? Or maybe they didn't correctly anticipate when doing the recordings how often the "Let's trade", "That trade is not acceptable" clips would be used.

I agree there are problems with the implementation, but at least in this part of the game, I think we are really nitpicking. Similarly I think it's pretty nitpicking to complain that the music is no longer era specific but region specific. Yes, it's a fair complaint about that part of the game and surely there are people who prefer it the era-based way, but the music itself is quite extensive, culturally diverse and high quality. I know it's down to personal taste, but I found much of the later era music in civ4 painful to listen to more than once.

It may not mean much to most people around here, but civ5 has definitely surpassed civ4 in the audio department, hands down.

 

[Guardian_PL]

You know, if it really bothers you, you can actually replace the leader graphics with a blank grey screen by adjusting a setting in one of the ini files. It even will slightly improve performance with loading the diplo screens, especially on older hardware.

I'm sorry PieceOfMind but with all due respect that's just nonsense. Without watching that ugly face closely I cannot tell whether the AI is furious or sweetie-pie (not that it matters a lot but it helps to establish how soon it'll attack and whether I should move my army toward its borders now or can I finish off that other soulless AI entity to the south) so the blank grey screen wouldn't work. I mean it could, but that would mean that I'd HAVE to listen to the same phrase over and over again to be able to tell what their attitude is like - I honestly don't know which is worse!

The animated 3d leaderheads speaking their native languages (apart from perhaps some pedantic exceptions of Ancient leaders) have received widespread praise and at least before release were one of the most exciting new features to a lot of people, at least in terms of the game's art. There are a couple of statements from leaders that get a bit repetitive but that is only a tiniest of nuisances and overall the leaderheads are very impressive. They are exactly the sort of thing that people have been begging for for years. Yes, they don't really add any depth to strategy or balance to the gameplay, but not everything about the game has to advance one of those two goals.

I've underscored the important bit. That's the key - we saw few phrases and thought "omg! It's going to be AWESOME! Like having a real conversation in some ancient language with subtitles!". Then the release came and we realized that we've been fooled again - it's actually worse to know that they say exact same stuff all the time while what it actually means we can only guess since the "subtitles" for say war declaration changes from one encounter to another.
But yes, comparing to the actual combat AI one can say that leaderheads (leaderfigures?) do look impressive, even if they have like 4 different poses altogether while presented on dead background baring Monty/Nabby fires.

I'm sure if we'd gotten the mute leaderheads of civ4 there'd be people complaining about how stupid it is that they don't say a word.

You mean they are not mute? Sometimes except for the automated initial speech (which after so many encounters sounds like it's played from the tape, nonexistent lipsync not helping) you can click and click and all you have is a nod or no-no with a frown. Sadly, I kind of prefer it that way now.

I know that my opinion is nitpicking for many people but I can't help but feeling like I've been given a beautiful box that should have even more exciting content, but when I open it there's nothing there. But hey, I can still look at the pictures on the box to see what should be inside - that's not so bad, right?

I'm disappointed, that's all.

 

[shpeka]

The animated 3d leaderheads speaking their native languages (apart from perhaps some pedantic exceptions of Ancient leaders) have received widespread praise and at least before release were one of the most exciting new features to a lot of people, at least in terms of the game's art.

Some of the leaders are better looking than others but as a whole - the 'native language' idea is great and I enjoyed it. Then time passed by and the whole deal got tiring.

Why not add a simplified diplomacy screen (just like they did it with the map view). I would definitely use that option.

 

[jahsoldier]

How come they spent so long on the animated leaderheads, and then didn't bother coming up with unique (subtitled) dialogue for each Civ? Is it that big an job to have Gandhi respond slightly differently to, say, Bismarck?

This is one of the worst bits of Civ V (I'm sorry, I will stop using that phrase soon) - the love and respect for history that defined the series and made it feel like a grand, epic experience is entirely missing, replaced with this puerile 'jokey' interface. Honestly can't stress how much of a disappointment that is.

Whether it's been dumbed down in terms of gameplay is debatable I reckon. Dumbed down in terms of aesthetics and personality, utterly without a doubt.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Some of the leaders are better looking than others but as a whole - the 'native language' idea is great and I enjoyed it. Then time passed by and the whole deal got tiring.

Why not add a simplified diplomacy screen (just like they did it with the map view). I would definitely use that option.

What do you mean? Something like the citystates view?

None of the previous civ games had such a thing.. Is it a new suggestion?

Personally I wouldn't expect something like that in the main game, but it sounds like a possibility for a mod, especially a mod like -the civ5 equivalent of- BUG.

 

[Guardian_PL]

How come they spent so long on the animated leaderheads, and then didn't bother coming up with unique (subtitled) dialogue for each Civ? Is it that big an job to have Gandhi respond slightly differently to, say, Bismarck?

This is one of the worst bits of Civ V (I'm sorry, I will stop using that phrase soon) - the love and respect for history that defined the series and made it feel like a grand, epic experience is entirely missing, replaced with this puerile 'jokey' interface. Honestly can't stress how much of a disappointment that is.

Whether it's been dumbed down in terms of gameplay is debatable I reckon. Dumbed down in terms of aesthetics and personality, utterly without a doubt.

Oh yes, you can say that again
For more insight check the Snarky AI messages, especially Doctor Phibes' post about how SMAC's text lines were just a pinnacle of immersive narration - I wholly agree with him on that.

That whole schoolyard bully dialogue lines in Civ5 are giving me the creeps, especially that according to some native speakers what the leaders actually say is sometimes quite nice (in the same thread I've linked just now a guy says that when you declare war on Gandhi he sayes "Do you realize that in my country many people are not following the peaceful way same as I do?" ).

 

[evrett37]

guys..if Firaxis and 2K wasnt interested in our feedback during the development process why do you think they will be effective listeners now? If we want change and a better game we need to take it to them and wave it in their face. Perhaps the mods would consider a giant "DONT BUY CiV" sign on the news page until there is a healthy communication/feedback system in place

 

[Who Dat?]

Civ4 was UNPLAYABLE and had an absolutely horrible launch. I picked up Civ5, started a game, found some depth, and had fun killing coms. There are some serious bugs and balance issues but there's nothing stopping me from enjoying it. The biggest fault about Civ5 is there's so many player decisions (in war, in policies, in buildings) that the AI needs to be at a much higher level to compete.

I don't think people remember Civ4. All I think people are remembering is the final Civ4+BTS product, which still had some horrible mechanics that I would've wanted ironed out. Even with all the improvements, ICS was much easier in Civ4, the AI was much worse at war, and several parts of the game could be simply ignored. Stop with the nostalgia and actually compare the two.

Truth. I could not play Civ IV at all until it was patched. At least I can play V.

 

[Veshta]

guys..if Firaxis and 2K wasnt interested in our feedback during the development process why do you think they will be effective listeners now?...

Because there is a big difference between ignoring warnings about pulling the pin on a grenade and sitting on said grenade after the fact

Now that the game has been released there is a good chance that a different group of people will be pulling the strings (ie. not 2K marketing) so I'd say there is a pretty good chance of some sort of dialogue.

 

[dexters]

You guys are seriously being nitpicky.
I can understand mandarin, Wu Zetain is well voiced, and her greeting is actually a chinese poetic turn of phrase that even the subtitle couldn't really capture.

Yes, there's stock voice responses re-used for various situations, but this is one area where the money was well spent.

Now diplomacy view could use more detailed information but the leaderheads are a highlight of the game.

 

[Buccaneer]

You should have seen the 2K Mafia II forum in the days right after release. In all of my years online, I had never seen such a bloodbath of closed threads.

 

[drachasor]

It may not mean much to most people around here, but civ5 has definitely surpassed civ4 in the audio department, hands down.

Agreed except for one thing. Civ4 had a much better sound when a civ went to war.

 

[Jerrymander]

You guys are seriously being nitpicky.
I can understand mandarin, Wu Zetain is well voiced, and her greeting is actually a chinese poetic turn of phrase that even the subtitle couldn't really capture.

Except she sounds just like every other woman who majored in Chinese at a Chinese university. She speaks perfect Beijinghua, but I doubt that's what Empress Wu actually spoke. I cannot listen to Wu Zetian talk, because all I can hear is some 25 year old Chinese woman speaking Beijinghua.

But, the majority of people here can't empathise with me.

 

[charon2112]

Except she sounds just like every other woman who majored in Chinese at a Chinese university. She speaks perfect Beijinghua, but I doubt that's what Empress Wu actually spoke. I cannot listen to Wu Zetian talk, because all I can hear is some 25 year old Chinese woman speaking Beijinghua.

But, the majority of people here can't empathise with me.

you may have just proved dexters point about being nitpicky.

 

[Jerrymander]

you may have just proved dexters point about being nitpicky.

Yes, it's nitpicky, but after having spent years around 4.5 million women all speaking that way, I don't really want to ever hear it again.

 

[Pnutmaster]

There's a reasonable amount of recordings in the folder for each leader, and some of them I haven't noticed in the game, so I'm wondering if they've simply made the mistake of not utilising all of the available audio? Or maybe they didn't correctly anticipate when doing the recordings how often the "Let's trade", "That trade is not acceptable" clips would be used.

Where are these recordings stored? I couldn't find anything in the Assets/Sound folder.

 

[Buccaneer]

I remember Civ IV, I didn't have a single technical issue and it was plenty playable. I haven't had any tech issues with V either (although plenty have). With IV the AI actually built more than a handful of units, knew how to use those units, was a challenge at higher difficulty levels, etc. Civ V, the AI seems to be hardly even playing even with the advantages of a higher difficulty.

This. I thought that the first release of Civ4 was the most stable and playable game out of the box of all the strategy games I've played. But can sympathize with those that could not play it.

Civ5 is really stable too, despite playing on a low-end machine. I get crashes but they all relate to loading a game.