2nd UU

tchristensen

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Have you given any thought about adding a 2nd UU for all the civilizations in the game? Do you think others would like to discuss what they could be?

I have recently created a 2nd UU for the game and have been playing around with it with a few friends. I won't go until greater detail other than to say I have used pre-existing models that you already have installed.

Some Examples:

Japanese Empire: The Zero (fighter)
American Empire: Minuteman (muksetman)
Polynesian Empire: A specialized settler that has a power similar to paradrop for 4 squares near any city
French Empire: Norman Knights (knights)
Greek Empire: Prodromi (horseman)
 
I have seen it in several mods already. They all made it poorly.
The ideas and the unit arts weren't good enough.

So I believe that if you want to add UU2 you'll have to make a big project here and not just to borrow them from other mods.




And I'll try to find some more ideas:


Celts - Maybe a Gallic UU? The Gauls used to rebel against the Romans in guerilla style.
So a good idea can be axemen or swordmen with guerilla bonuses or forest bonuses.

England - Something like Ship of the Line is necessary for the imperialist Great Britain.

Germany - In this mod, Germany includes both the HRE and the German Empire.
We already have a Panzer for the German Empire, so why not to add the existing HRE's Lansknecht as another UU?

Scandinavia - Maybe a special Viking caravel can be added?

Russia - I see two options: An early medieval UU (before Peter's era), or a Soviet UU.
I can't decide which is better.

Phoenicia - Elephants for sure!

Hittites - Archers maybe?

Israel - An interesting UU can be Settlers with improved movement, or Settlers with the ability to walk and find cities in the same turn.
A realistic idea can be Settlers with the ability to land off a ship and continue their turn, or land in an airport and continue their turn.
A more militaristic option can be the common idea of a unique IDF jet, or a special SAM (Israels has special technologies of intercepting missles).

Arabia - Does any one know any unique Ayyubid weapon or something?

Turks - Better horses for Arslan the Seljuq would help!
And if you know a PRO designer you can add the Seljuq Nowkia, it would be the coolest UU ever!
These were units who laid on the ground and used massive crossbows with their feet, against crusaders.
It can replace Longbowmen.
 
One thing I adore about this mod is the unique looking units that each civilization has. So that to me just begs for them to be UUs. The art is really there, and if not there are some really good art out there still available.

I agree with you on many of the UUs. The 2nd UUs that I added I tried to make them divergent in the timelines, so that they are separated by a couple of eras -- but not always so successful.

Here is a few more that I added

Russian Empire: T54 Battle Tank
Israel Empire: Mirage III (Jet Fighter)
Iroquois Empire: Indian Brave (base archer with with attack bonus and extra bonus against guns)
Anasazi Empire: A spearman that gains a bonus in desert
Phoenician Empire: An elephant unit since Hannibal is included in this civilization that is 1 point faster
 
What would be the use of an anti gun archer?
It is only useful if the Iroquois indeed start in the new world continents.
Maybe those improved archers can replace Musketmen (9:strength: and +25% vs gunpowder units)
 
What would be the use of an anti gun archer?
It is only useful if the Iroquois indeed start in the new world continents.
Maybe those improved archers can replace Musketmen (9:strength: and +25% vs gunpowder units)

We have the bonus against guns to simulate the Native American's struggle against European invaders in the 18th and 19th centuries. Certainly one could argue that they may have their own guns at this point, but if not they are a formidable unit against later units.

Just posting possibilities, suggestions, and discussion.
 
If this is done correctly this would be a great way to not only expand the game, as well as a great way to define a unique playing style for each civ. Obviously some civs should dominate particular eras. When playing a civ like Egypt, one would rely on dominating one era. Likewise, Japan might have its unique units building and wonder spaced over a number of ages, therefore they are less powerful at any give time relative to other civs, but maintain some militaristic advantage over a longer period of time. Some civs (the mongols) might have two units of a similar type (mounted) and Germany would have a melee unit (Lansknecht) and of course their panzer tanks.
Here are my ideas as of now:
1. bring back the units from the unmodded game that were left out of HR.
2. Viking Longboats
3. either a bomber (B17) or minuteman for America
4. Katyusha rocket systems were the most feared weapon in the Soviet arsenal in WWII, they would make an excellent mobile artillery replacement for Russia
5. Roman Ballistas instead of catapults
6. Korean Turtleships
7. a Vietcong unit seems like a go for Vietnam
8. I like a cruiser for Japan. The Japanese were a naval superpower for the first half (almost) of the 20th century, this would be well represented by a cruiser. The Zero was obviously a good plane, but I do not think it was so much better than any other contemporary fighter that it should be a UU.
9. Israeli IDF fighter. Air superiority (particularly in the jet age) is a primary reason for Israel's survival.
10. French knights are a must

more to follow when i think of them
 
I also wonder what players' thoughts are on hypothetical extension of UUs? Meaning that what would an ancient culture produce if let to develop to modern or futuristic times. Is that something to look into or just leave out of the equation? For example, what would a Incan Rifelman be like; or a Australian Aborigine gunships; how about Sioux battleship?

Part of the game is theoretical and hyper-extending old cultures into modern ones, but having advanced theoretical units can also cause a lot of problems and issues.

Thoughts?
 
If this is done correctly this would be a great way to not only expand the game, as well as a great way to define a unique playing style for each civ. Obviously some civs should dominate particular eras. When playing a civ like Egypt, one would rely on dominating one era. Likewise, Japan might have its unique units building and wonder spaced over a number of ages, therefore they are less powerful at any give time relative to other civs, but maintain some militaristic advantage over a longer period of time. Some civs (the mongols) might have two units of a similar type (mounted) and Germany would have a melee unit (Lansknecht) and of course their panzer tanks.
Here are my ideas as of now:
1. bring back the units from the unmodded game that were left out of HR.
2. Viking Longboats
3. either a bomber (B17) or minuteman for America
4. Katyusha rocket systems were the most feared weapon in the Soviet arsenal in WWII, they would make an excellent mobile artillery replacement for Russia
5. Roman Ballistas instead of catapults
6. Korean Turtleships
7. a Vietcong unit seems like a go for Vietnam
8. I like a cruiser for Japan. The Japanese were a naval superpower for the first half (almost) of the 20th century, this would be well represented by a cruiser. The Zero was obviously a good plane, but I do not think it was so much better than any other contemporary fighter that it should be a UU.
9. Israeli IDF fighter. Air superiority (particularly in the jet age) is a primary reason for Israel's survival.
10. French knights are a must

more to follow when i think of them

You have to remember that it is just another UU, it still won't change the whole strategy of a game.
But many more things like that can do so.


I also wonder what players' thoughts are on hypothetical extension of UUs? Meaning that what would an ancient culture produce if let to develop to modern or futuristic times. Is that something to look into or just leave out of the equation? For example, what would a Incan Rifelman be like; or a Australian Aborigine gunships; how about Sioux battleship?

Part of the game is theoretical and hyper-extending old cultures into modern ones, but having advanced theoretical units can also cause a lot of problems and issues.

Thoughts?
You have a suitable art for every unit in every civ, or every group of civs.

If you want, you can change the whole concept of UU to something different, and much more important.

For example - all Native American archery units have bonuses against gunpowder units.

All of the English naval units have specific bonuses.

All Arab units has something related to desert.

Russian melee and gunpowder units has defensive bonuses in snow.

Spanish units from the colonial age (Muskets, Cuirassiers/Conquistadors, Grenadiers) have greater bonuses when attacking less advanced units.

Assyrian melee units has city attack bonuses, or they can be less affected by walls.
I believe it is better than the battering ram, because than their good siege ability can be used in the ancient times.

Phoenician elephants has better movement.
No matter how many elephant units you are willing to add to the game, all of them will have the movement bonus.

These idea are inspired by the civ5 special abilities, but I want to make it much more important than in civ5, and I think that this way you can really have a full style of play for every civilization.
 
At work and thought of some interesting units:

American Empire: Flying Tigers (fighter) that could attack without declaring war
German Empire: Uboats (submarine) that is more deadly
French Empire: Partisan (infrantry) can perform spy like missions or spy on enemy positions
Japanese Empire: Yamato (battleship) an outrageous battleship, perhaps limited to only 1 unit at at given time?
Sioux Empire: Code Talkers (infantry)

English Empire: Man of War (frigate) strong but slow warship
 
The Yamato is not a good idea.
It means you can't hold more than one Battleship, it is not an advantage.

And why would the code talkers be infantries? why not spies or explorers?
 
Spoiler :
You have to remember that it is just another UU, it still won't change the whole strategy of a game.
But many more things like that can do so.


your right it wont change the basic strategy. But Civs with 2 uus and a ub that all become availible in the same era will have a distinct advantage in that era civs with uus and ubs spread across multiple eras will be more balanced over the course of the whole game.
 
A second UU would spice the game up, and is a good idea, if a lot of work to do well.

I would try wherever possible to have the added UU significantly separated in time from the current UU and UB.

I do not think we need to stay historical, such as Egypt only gets help in the ancient era.
 
If you want to give a different advantage to every civilization, you'll have to go according to history.
Egypt will control the horses of the ancient world, and England will control the oceans of the industrial era.
 
The Yamato is not a good idea.
It means you can't hold more than one Battleship, it is not an advantage.

And why would the code talkers be infantries? why not spies or explorers?

Fair enough on the Battleship, although one could project that the Japanese could have a super battleship on top of the normal one, but that perhaps gets into additional abilities and is for future work.

Code Talkers were infantry, used in WWII alongside normal US soldiers to fight in the south pacific. They weren't spies nor explorers. They used their native tongue to talk over open radio channels because the Japanese had no idea of how to crack the "code" of their language. I contend that you could give Code Talkers a "cargo" space of two and stealth movement (like spies have) so he could in essence carry other units under his umbrella of secrecy into enemy lands.

Some other ideas I have recently experimented with:

Berber Empire: Barbary Pirates
Celtic Empire: Headhunters (a scout that is offensive and can be upgraded to a swordsman)
Chinese Empire: Junk (A dromon that has the capability of ocean travel but slower)
Egyptian Empire: Slave (replaces the worker and costs gold rather than food)
Incan Empire: Hacha (axeman that can build roads)
India Empire: Sepoy (Grenadier that is cheaper to build)
Kongo Empire: Yakka Jagga (Swordsman that is +1 offense but requires ivory)
Mayan Empire: Hulche (spearman that gets the "new" Poison Promotion)
 
A UU unit which requires ivory is not an advantage as well.

And why would the code talkers have an advantage in battle?
Why not making the Code Talkers an option of "invisible move" or something.
They'll be able to move one tile per turn without being seen.
But it is way too complicated to mod.
And so is the Headhunter and the Hacha.
These are more than just upgrades, these are abilities.

And it is related to my previous post #9
 
A UU unit which requires ivory is not an advantage as well.

And why would the code talkers have an advantage in battle?
Why not making the Code Talkers an option of "invisible move" or something.
They'll be able to move one tile per turn without being seen.
But it is way too complicated to mod.
And so is the Headhunter and the Hacha.
These are more than just upgrades, these are abilities.

And it is related to my previous post #9

The unit has a greater attack value, offset by the need of ivory. It has an added advantage beyond a simple +1 which must be offset with an additional requirement.

Code Talkers were used in the field to extend military control of areas because they could talk freely amongst themselves without fear that the Japanese would intercept the messages. This in essence gave them an extended reach into enemy territory.

The Hachas are already in the game. Look at Roman Legionaires, they can build roads.

Having a Scout that can upgrade to a swordsman is nothing new but just a variant that is not used by other scouts.
 
There are some BTS UU that can be brought back.
For example, the fast worker, although it need not be Indian.

Besides BTS, Civilization 5 may have some useful ideas.

What about a unique settler that starts with a building like a Granary or a Barracks?

By the way, with all of the new buildings in HR, seems like there should be room for another Unique Building for each civilization.
 
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