Discussion in 'Playthroughs and Photojournals' started by CrazyG, Mar 5, 2020.
Do they lack Iron? There's not a single Legion in Rome.
Spoiler Pantheon :
I considered three pantheons: Earth Mother, Beauty, and Wisdom.
Earth Mother is awkward because I think two of my cities will have no mines, and I don't intend to reveal iron soon. I already have pretty good culture.
Beauty is probably the second best choice, but how many wonders can I get? I'm not sure exactly. I think I can get one with the engineer, but after that it's looking tough. TOA and Maus both went on turn 58, with beauty that is a doable goal with the engineer, but it means no engineer for the gardens. I'm more worried about getting my final settlers in position.
Wisdom was my choice, so I start teching towards trade and markets for specialists. It provides a lot science (I actually get a small tech lead over other civs on my continent) and it ends up being really valuable when something I worried about got confirmed later on.
Nature also would have been good if I positioned the capital differently, but we can see that I got no natural wonders and that a couple cities will have no mountains.
Spoiler Boston :
I settle directly on the silver (another reason not to take Earth Mother). this will connect my monopoly faster. The only other place to put this city, if you don't go on the silver, is where the barbarian camp is, which is going to take time to clear. This city works fish until 2 population, then the horse and deer to maximize production. It builds shrine-granary-market (for the specialist slot).
You can also see that there is no way through those mountains. I'll need fishing to put a city there, which sucks because I think there are 3 silver on the other side. That's a huge burden on my tech. I'm going to move away from a hanging gardens to get trade and fishing instead. I spent some time thinking long and hard about what to do here, I think the biggest priority is faith, which means settling cities quickly, just because if I miss a religion I'm screwed. My target for a consistent religion on Deity is turn 85.
Spoiler Philadelphia :
This land actually looks pretty good now that I see it. Two city states have targeted that camp, which is great. I invested a well and immediately bought two tiles, building it just one turn, and giving lots of extra food and hammers to get other stuff in place. Then it builds shrine-monument-council. After fishing I researched construction to improve my stone, then calendar, then mathematics for composite bowmen. I'm not going to try Hanging Gardens, I need my production for military. I really feel short on production right now.
Spoiler First Great Engineer and My Final City :
I barely beat Rome to this spot. This city will really struggle with production, but it blocks Rome from taking it, and it has a river. I'll be forced to war Rome soon. After mathematics I'm going for masonry for watermills in three cities, especially this one because it sucks.
I worked my engineer every turn since I got him, and use this great person to build Petra in New York. I send food to my capital, I have another trade route going to Riga for a quest. New York is going to be a very strong city, but it needs walls for the coming war.
Spoiler War with Rome :
I declare on turn 80 since Cesar is too nervous to do it himself (didn't get a picture, but it hasn't had much action). He denounced me, and taunted me, and I disrespected him both times but he just backs down. I got to pillage a trade route too. It shouldn't be too hard to hold New York with walls and a few comp bows. He isn't in classical yet so no legions.
I'll note that Hanging Gardens went on turn 79 (unmet player). The first two religions on turn 76 (unmet player and Aztec), as well as Great Library (Huns) and Great Lighthouse (Shoshone)
Spoiler Very Important Decision :
I get the 3rd great prophet on turn 84. What beliefs to take? There are a lot of appealing options, but I think really making a great choice here, instead of just a good choice, will be important.
War with Rome for a while and bad relations for maybe ever, along with being backed in a corner and already-founded Aztec as one of the neighbors puts a bit of a damper on spreading beliefs. Even so, you can still spread to CSes and to the West, maybe, especially founding fairly early. With Tradition both Council of Elders and Apostolic are very strong, providing great yields (Apostolic struggles a bit outside Tradition, but Tradition is very greedy for capital food.)
Already being Classical puts a bit of a damper on Transcendence, as well as remote location making it harder to actually hold a lot of converted cities. I rarely use Holy Law myself but with a tall five City Tradition I imagine it would do very fine. Divine Inheritance would benefit from Tradition and Pyramid synergy both, and gives a lot of lategame punch.
Given that you mentioned a Market in Boston, I know you have two cities with a specialist, and NY probably has one by now too, and your cities are tall, so Creativity is strong. I think in your position I would take Council of Elders+Creativity, but could also see Divine Inheritance if you want to do something more interesting. Diligence might also be reasonable to help rescue Atlanta from being terrible and to generally buff your sea and floodplain heavy cities.
In my attempt I wasn't very confident in my ability to spread with both Aztecs and Shoshone being religious leaders but the 'selfish' founders (the GA and WLTK ones) were already picked. I went with the heavily nerfed Council of Elders thinking I might get at least some early science to catch up before cities flipped back but Rome proved to be very easy to convert, and later I could convert Huns as well, rushing the top part of the tech tree for open borders. Thanks to CoE I am basically trading faith:science 1:0.8 until Renaissance, now that it's going to fall off it's time for universities. Apostolic Tradition might have worked as well, it's just that food/culture are already plenty in tradition, I like that founder for progress games.
Earth Mother (5th religion on t86)
Council of Elders
Mosques (somebody beat me to Sonkore)
Symbolism (enhanced with free GP from HS)
Inspired Works (debateable, but I foresee going Rationalism so TtGoG isn't very appealing and I need a faith sink for industrial+, archeologists might work being on a authority filled continent, Faith of the Masses was already taken sadly else it'd be great with America's UB)
Symbolism+Hagia Sophia turned me into a religious bully.
CrazyG, I recommend taking any religious combo that gives you the most yields from spreading your religion far and wide. Unless you've got a heavy religious spreader on your landmass who'll be using lots of missionaries himself (someone like Ramkaheng), your best bet in this version is to go nuts on spreading, because the AI, even the founders, seem to be inept with using inquisitors. I've actually had to refrain myself from using missionaries against AI founders because it feels like cheating when they 1.) don't protect their cities with inquisitors and 2.) they just let their cities remain without their religion after being attacked by my missionaries or passive spread. So given that you got the 3rd religion, that Monty isn't that much into spreading his religion usually and that Rome was so timid towards you militarily early in the game, I think you'll easily win this game.
My first games with runaway AIs were so bad because I had no religion and couldn't abuse the inquisition bug like that and I had Siam and Russia who were very faith heavy. If you get a religion and no Siam, Ethiopia etc., this version is quite easier compared to some previous ones.
I should mention the beliefs that were already taken: Divine Inheritance, Way of the Pilgrim, Cathedrals, and Veneration.
Also I expect Shoshone to get a religion (tobacco monopoly), but probably not Rome or Huns.
I'm happy you are sharing, but would you mind putting stuff like this in spoilers? Just in case someone else wants to play from turn 0 without forward knowledge. You've played further than I have.
Woops, sorry. Looks like I found somebody playing slower than me: this goddamn virus keeping me at home might be the culprit.
Taking a break from this though, tbh the AI passivity irks me even more than the handicap values atm
I agree. I sort of dealt with this by declaring war on Rome, but this continent is stupidly peaceful. Neither Huns nor Shoshone have declared once, but both have authority. The Aztec declared one and only one war. I think its why peaceful AI just snowball like crazy, about half the AI take authority but won't fight, gimping their culture and science.
FYI- I tried a few attempts at grabbing both pyramids and stonehenge on deity. I wasn't able to do it in my 3 attempts but I got close- roughly 3 turns away on Pyramids (taken t28 or so) after getting Stonehenge super early. Need a high gold/production start to have a chance I think. Finding some early CSs that gift gold and then tributing them also helps as well as maybe taking a barb camp for the gold. In any case, it's not a reliable thing to try as far as I can tell.
Are you playing with or without ruins? I had AI get Pyramids T32 without ruins on my deity game.
Try going for Pyramid before Stonehenge? I am seeing SH going pretty late in my games but there's big variance, t29-t42. Obviously it became the worst wonder for the AI now that their pantheons come up before it could be possibly be built.
Edit: Heh, just done with a risky t30 SH (was less than 1 short at t29). No ruins, no Mercantile CS, nice starting position though.
No ruins, so maybe there's some variance. If it had been t32 in my game I would have gotten it. Maybe just a bit of luck.
Nice! I defaulted to going SH first to get my pick of pantheons, didn't occur to me that the AI would build Pyramid and SH at different speeds.
I think in past patches I was able to consistently get both but now it seems a bit riskier.
So this game was on a really old patch so I don't plan to finish it. I didn't play it to the end, but I'll share what happened.
Spoiler Early to Mid Game :
This part was smooth sailing. I got plenty of wonders and stuff, fought off Rome repeatedly pretty easily. I actually was able to go on "the offensive" so to speak and keep farming him with composite bowmen. Religion went well, got lots of wonders, and generally focused on production and science buildings everywhere. My neighbors fell really far me behind in science.
However, once I met the other continent and large naval warfare occurred the game became impossible. There was simply no way to defend coastal cities against ironclads. I kept playing for a while just accepting the loses and playing on only three cities, but it hurt my yields a lot, and I steadily lost my CS allies. Once aircraft were available I was barely holding on and i gave up. Even if I survived the wars for a while, once nukes arrived I wouldn't have a chance.
Ironclads thankfully have been nerfed (an ironclad could take a city with an arsenal by itself).
ironclads are still quite scary in this patch, when warring before you can get arsenal +lancer on a coastal city, its basically goodbye to the city. I haven't played that late in the previous patch, but i can imagine the pure terror rogue ironclads does without the cs changes to cities. seems unstoppable.
I think we're probably back to Ironclads being terrifying, with the new patch. I'm inclined to test a Dutch Authority game to see if I can make it work in my favor.
I'm not sure how to win Naval warfare on higher difficulties. It's very much a numbers game, which favors the AI.
@CrazyG Do you think its possible to win peacefully on the current patch? I'm struggling to do so. I tried it as Korea and caught up in tech's enough to start the Spaceship parts but the AI finished the spaceship while I still needed another 15 turns for parts.
I haven't played much civ lately, but I'll give it a try once final exams are sorted out
Thanks for sharing this interesting playthrough!
Did you consider settling one tile SE? That would get you 10 mountains in range for Goddess of Nature and mountain wonders later in the game.
I usually don't take Goddess of Nature if I don't find a natural wonder. A 0 culture 0 science is generally not good.
This is quite an old game, but I think got Machu Pichu in a different city anyways.
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