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3.17 Global Warming Mechanics

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Refar, Jun 24, 2008.

  1. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    The problem with Irreversible Global Warming (particularly the -> desert style) then it is something that you can't have in large amounts so that makes it a very rare mechanic. and very Rare mechanics are bad because they have to be very powerful to be significant.

    I could see a situation where you had "permanent" changes on tiles ie
    Desert<->Plains<->Grassland
    where there was a slow level of random change and Global Pollution tended to push it in one direction.

    (you could also have certain (biological) resources get depleted and possibly rediscovered/reintroduced. (similar to the way mineral resources are)... Global Pollution would drive that mechanic in the direction of Less resources.

    The ideal is that
    1. whatever change Global Warming does it should be a change that through chance or time (and nothing else) should possibly reverse
    2. It should be common
    3. It should be weak (this is balanced by the commonness of it
    4. It should be connected to overall polluting practices of the civs
    5. either Environmentalism or Ecology would be required in the Long term to prevent it cousing significant problems (so once you get Medicine+Assembly Line, its either go Environmental... push through to Ecology... or just get the Win (the short term problems it would couse would be much less than the long term problems it would cause)
    6. effectively totally avoidable+repairable... ie now matter how bad it has gotten, if you take the right actions it will EVENTUALLY (Very Long term) eventually correct itself.
     
  2. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    The problem with environmentalism is that by letting you build more :yuck: buildings you'll cause more global warming. Environmentalism will add 8 :health: (with public transportation) which will then let you build 8 :yuck: worth of buildings. So why not just have environmentalism subtract exactly 8 per city from the GW calculation? It's only negating what it's indirectly causing. It won't force you into environmentalism to prevent GW because :yuck: would have already forced you into environmentalism. OK maybe it would if you have even :health: and :yuck: with all the :yuck: buildings and there's still GW, but the way it is now in that situation there would be nothing you can do, so you're forced to live with it. Being forced into a choice between two situations you don't want is still better than being forced into just one of them.
    This seems kind of an obvious solution so is there something I'm missing? Can the calculation not work the way I suggest?
     
  3. Levgre

    Levgre King

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    I really couldn't understand the coding given in the first post. Could someone explain it more simply/clearly, like...

    Chance for global warming to strike = (number of forests / number of land tiles) x (3 x number of nukes launched + :yuck: from buildings)

    ?

    Thanks... I am good with math, but all the coding writing stops me from seeing it clearly.
     
  4. Dresden

    Dresden Emperor

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    I'm going to assume you are only interested in the probabilities for the unmodified game and thus just use the standard XML values instead of variables. It still really makes sense to present the GW mechanics in terms of two separate formulas:

    1) Number of GW tests run each turn (Refar's GW_VALUE)
    Code:
     20 * Total Unhealthy Faces from Buildings       Total Nuke Explosions
    -------------------------------------------  +  -----------------------
           Number of Total Tiles on Map                         2
    
    2) Probability of a GW strike used in each of the above tests (Refar's PROB1)
    Code:
             Number of Forests & Jungles
     .20 - -------------------------------
              2 * Number of Land Tiles
    
    As for the overall probability of at least one GW strike on a given turn, here's the "complete" version of Refar's PROBGW_strikes formula for the standard XML case. Given the complex exponent, I figured ASCII formatting probably wouldn't get the job done, so I resorted to an online LaTeX equation editor:



    Note that the base probability could be less than zero when there is over 40% forest coverage and so this last formula would also go less than zero. In such a case, global warming simply won't occur regardless of the amount of nukes or pollution.
     
  5. Aleenik

    Aleenik Deity

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    so we get a :yuck: for chopping forest? there goes my windmills and workshops then...
     
  6. Ricci

    Ricci Prince

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    I surely like GW (the worst feature in the game by far) modified, and believe it should count with other three issues added to make it both balanced and strategic in game:

    1- It should be tile sensitive, as sugested above and every time this topic is discussed. It is ludicrus to have any region in the world turned into a desert. The fact that forests and jungles don't is a nice start towards this, and it certainly makes a civilization which preserved and/or grew these features (preserve improvements here) less harmed by GW efects; making global warming regional in it's efect.;)

    2- It should have a U.N resolution to influence it, like a Kyoto protocol treaty, which implementation can vary, and I' love to here suggestions here. Besides the global civic enviromentalism, this Kyoto treaty resolution might set a timeframe in which all civs need to get contamination (unhealthiness affecting GW) down to certain level. In case time is up and the agreement expectations are not fullfilled a major fee would be charged upon the inflictors...:mad:

    3- You should be able to take a direct policy (in the form of a civic why not) to reduce the harm and risk of GW. Here I will entirely reproduce one Minor Annoyance's idea stated above in this thread about enviromentalism taking out some unhealthiness from buildings. With certain modification. Ok, instead of giving +6:health: from the hook it will give +2:health: and take just 1:yuck: from aspects producing actually two unhealthiness; coal, power, coal plants and industrial parks. Thus, not replacing the later to come recycling center in any way.{This is a first aproach and needs to be properly adjusted to function fair and square}.
     
  7. CLST

    CLST Warlord

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    GW is comically horrible.

    I mean it's like a South Park reference really.

    Things get all menacing, and there's a sound, and red letters, and GLOBAL WARMING STRIKES near ___!!!!

    And Oh my god the grassland turned to plains! NOOOOOO, what have we done!

    We didn't listen!

    We didn't listen!
     
  8. Nevalainen85

    Nevalainen85 Chieftain

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    Ok, a retard here.

    I couldn't find the new XML lines (Global Warming Forest, Global Warming Unhealth Weight, Global Warming Nuke Weight) from anywhere in the GlobalDefines XML-file. I also couldn't understand a single word from that coding-thing someone posted. Could someone please tell me what XML lines exactly I should change to what to absolutely remove global warming altogether. Changing the Global Warming Prob to zero worked in Civ4, but not in BTS...:confused:
     
  9. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    Changing <DefineName>GLOBAL_WARMING_PROB</DefineName> to 0 in GlobalDefines.xml does still work. Use text search to find it.
     
  10. Nevalainen85

    Nevalainen85 Chieftain

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    Tried it, didn't work. The GLOBAL_WARMING_PROB is set to 0, but I still get global warming for some reason.
     
  11. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Are you changing the vanilla or the BtS file ?
     
  12. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    This shouldn't be possible from the code.

    Make sure you changed the right file (If you have a mod containing GlobalDefines.XML for example, the one from the mod might override the other. Also some mods disallow using files from Custom Assets at all.)
     
  13. 77alex77

    77alex77 Chieftain

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    Did you delete the cache? I don't know which files are cached and which are not, but deleting the cache is always a good idea after editing a file.
    You can also disable caching in CivilizationIV.ini.
     
  14. Woody1

    Woody1 Prince

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    You changed the right attribute. The question is, did you put it in CustomAssets? Are you using a mod that overwrites it?

    Anyway, it works. You're doing something else wrong.
     
  15. Nevalainen85

    Nevalainen85 Chieftain

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    I have changed both vanilla and BTS. And I'm not using any mods.

    And another retard question; what is a cache and how do I delete it?
     
  16. boogaboo

    boogaboo Josef Popper 4ever

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    How much blah can a blah blah?!
    The first post was great, but then came the monolog of "pets" (Porno for Pyros)..

    Ok. Please. My only questions , regarding 3.17 - currently, :
    1. Does Environmentalism improve the :yuck: from bad buildings (or not)?
    2. Does RC clean some of that same :yuck: from a city (or not)?

    I just finished my 1st BTS game to know all the features... easiest level, but same GW... now I know what I can do, but I was the worst type.. I inflated GW beyond belief.. about 70% of all flat land is desert :{ ... at 2050AD :}

    I'll later submit it for fun, but first, I must sleep.
    You, yes you, please answer! Please!

    Booga. Freak.
     
  17. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    Not Enviromentalism nor RC does help prevent Global Warming. (Technically they even harm - they "hide" some :yuck: - so you can build more polluting buildings, without your city going unhealthy. All that "hidden" :yuck: does still contribute to GW)

    Overall - Mass Coal Power & Industrial Parks are tabu (You can still make one or two in cities that can use them best). I also skip Dry docks, Airports and Labs as much as i can - without these, and assuming no one start throwing Nukes around, you can finish Space Race games without rampaging GW. A
     
  18. boogaboo

    boogaboo Josef Popper 4ever

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    Thank you Refar for your answers and info !!
    I read some of your posts, and I'm became a fan :)
    You r the king - finally an intelligent logical human :p

    I have a new blessing I formalized for you:
    May you live for as long as you like, and die the death you wish.
    No man can wish for more.

    P.S. : here's my 2050AD (VICTORY!) save - total GW!!

    Edit : Is there a difference in game speed ??? u get 3 turns in marathon for each turn in normal, so is that times 3 GW, or was that taken care of??

    Regards,
    Booga.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Bump! Sorry, but I need help. I just upgraded to 3.17 but I don't want to deal with the crappy global warming mechanics... but I can't seem to find GlobalDefines.xml file. I go into My Games/Beyond the Sword/assets but all I see is assets0.fpk to assets3.fpk, and each folder is empty. How do I find it?
     
  20. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    These FPK are in the Vanilla Assets Folders, so you might be looking the wrong place. (Or maybe it got merged on Civ4 Gold / Complete / Steam i dunno)

    Anyway... the files you want are in [Wherewer you installed the game]\Beyond The Sword\Assets\XML\

    If you installed into C:\Program Files\ (the game allways try get there by Default, for whatever dumb reason) and running Vista (or a particullary safe XP :p) you might need to perform some steps to make the stuff in C:\Program Files' visible in the first place (it counts as system folder so it might be locked, hidden or something).
     

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