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3 years of civ and im huge desappointed

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Seadoba, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I was thinking the other night that if trade routes lasted as long as a traverse to and from target city then at least they could free up a bit faster. At the moment they are too long to really be strategic. Naturally you do not want to keep refreshing a short route so perhaps a notification the have finished and then the carry on by default but can be re-assigned, perhaps being displayed as such in the trade screen.
    I know it’s probably not what you want with faraway spice routes and the like but that would be quite a radical change?
    Anyways, their elapsed trade route algorithm is weird anyway with some shorter routes lasting longer that longer routes.
    UN is just an area I do not want to go to. Favour is way too traceable to be worth hogging for silly votes.
     
    Eurritz and acluewithout like this.
  2. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    The unchanging mechanics of trade routes regardless of era and technology have been bugging me forever. On this point I'll quote my own post from the Winter Patch wishes thread in Ideas&Suggestions section:

     
    Meluhhan, Thibaulthc and Victoria like this.
  3. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    Why do I and several others see civs building armies and being aggressive and you don't?
    I have played at least 20 games recently where at least 1, sometimes up to 6 different civs attack in force sometime during the game. I don't use any mods that change aggressiveness.
     
    Builderphile and CivLuvah like this.
  4. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    That really is a fair question. I'm playing a game on Emperor difficulty right now, and Cyrus is right below me, with a city about eight tiles from my capital. I'm merrily just doing my China thing and trying to bang out early wonders. I'm an attractive target by all accounts, with no army to speak of. And there he is glowering and expressing his contempt but never doing anything about it. I haven't even gone so far as to send a delegation.

    And I also notice this guy, despite having a massive army, is just allowing barbarians to stroll about. I have to inch my scout around his cities one tile at a time. If one of his units winds up within attacking distance, they attack, but units don't seem to move to intercept or try to wipe out the camp. There are a bunch of yellow-health barbs walking around that haven't been finished off.

    I don't do much of anything to amass grievances. I don't early-rush civ's or city-states. Maybe that's a difference.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    Mahi likes this.
  5. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Seadoba you did buy IV, righto?
    We have a very active community here in the IV S&T forum, and it's very very veeeery challenging on deity,
    you would be welcome to visit us too ;)
     
  6. Mahi

    Mahi Prince

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    Can only agree with OP. Civ 6 seems like an abounded project in many perspectives.
     
  7. S1AL

    S1AL Warlord

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    Regarding the side note on multiplayer: the removal of card overflow exploits made chops far less relevant. But I still would never even dream of playing it unmodded, just for balance reasons.

    As regards the AI: I've definitely had city states go for broke on attacking. They're not, however, consistent about it. I assume there's an underlying mechanical issue - probably something to do with vision and force assessment. Even though I play exclusively MP, I would love to see a better AI so that CS exist for a reason beyond obscene bonus stacking and free early cities*.

    *I'm exaggerating a bit - some of them have nice Suze bonuses as well.
     
  8. Seadoba

    Seadoba Chieftain

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    I'll definitely go there. See ya!
     
  9. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

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    Okay trip report - Real Strategy is a HUGE improvement. Mansa Musa is rotating Crossbowmen on me and using five of them to target the same unit down in one turn. Never seen an AI do that before. I'm really struggling and having to call in allies. I haven't had to do that in a long time!
     
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  10. darko82

    darko82 Emperor

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    As said earlier, this breaks the game entirely for me. No threat in the game makes a lot of implemented things pointless. And if I don't feel a point, I quit the game.
     
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  11. Sven

    Sven Chieftain

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    I do enjoy it most of the time if I don't play too often and the UI has improved with the expansions. However, it bothers me that the AI is so stupid tactically and when it comes to diplomacy.

    Also, I don't understand why they haven't got a Hall of Fame. It's a minor detail, but for me it's hugely missed.
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    For me the point is not always at the end of a spear nor even in winning but yes, if it's pointless, stop.
    It is there now on your main menu unless you are talking about a global HOF which is just a joke if you look at Civ V's.
     
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  13. Bitterman

    Bitterman Warlord

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    In my actual game I've been surprised attacked by Georgia and she managed to take one of my outer encampment walls down. She used swordsmen (I didn't have any since no iron), archers, horses, catapults and battering ram. It was quite a nice attack to be CIV VI AI.

    I got DoW'd again by Phoenicia in the next 20 turns, and she had a +1500 army vs. my 600. Her boats were a pain in the ass. Thanks god I had those super level 1 walls, which are really effective even against caravels.

    I mean they are now at least very capable of building a nice army, even if they are not clever using it to attack. Then again, I've been absolutely destroyed in some MP matches against rivals with much more smaller armies, as defending is usually way easier than commiting to an attack.
     
  14. oSiyeza

    oSiyeza Prince

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    I play with real strategy and smoother difficulty mods. They should affect the AI only on the rate they are granted bonus, and the focus they put to victory conditions. Though granted, these mods objectively improve AI.

    I play on king, probably would play on emperor if i was not using those mods. And while the AI is usually not challenging, I think is not because they act stupidly, but more because they dont play in an aggressive way, i think is a deliberate decision not to cause frustration on the player.

    Attacking by surprise with a big number of advanced units would be the end for me if the AI ever decides to do that when im focused on other fronts. When i attack them however, i rarely have an easy time.

    A consistent behavior I have seen is the AI defending the borders from Forts with melee and range units, while bringing units from other cities from inside their territory and using ranged ships (including a quatrirreme army) to stop the units i dare to put in coast lands and puting me in a bottleneck of sorts. Is a smart behavior that makes me lose units, and stops my advance for a serious amount of time. That is, I dare to say, a smart consistent and competent defense.

    However, im unsure if it is by design, despite they holding positions quite well, they do not counterattack or take real advantage of all my efforts being in one front. They just never take the killing blow that would make the attack to fail.

    I ultimately could overwhelm them cause i kept sending new units to the battle, while they did not at the same rate. However, most consistent flaw from the AI, is them not changing the first line units to allow them to heal. Also they totally could have prevented me, by using their large navy, from bringing more samurai into the battle. Another weird flaw i have seen, is that they dont use their catapults for defense; I think this is an actual bug.

    All in all, I was playing Japan, they were Maori. So my samurai were objectively better than their toa and pikemen. But still i had a very hard time succeeding in my attack. While I think there is a lot of room for improvement, and definitely the AI should be more aggressive, regarding counter attack (and attacking in general), and they should bring more units to the field, and cut supply lines. I would not call the current state of the AI bad. It is bit of a shame, that they probably designed the AI to be that way to not frustrate casual players. But is not a walk in the park at all either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  15. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Deity

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    As someone who has played Civ for more than 10 years war has always been the last thing on my mind. Does that make me a bad civ player?

    My argument would be that in my experience of Civ6 so far the AI problems have been relatively minor. In all honestly from Civ 4 to Civ 5 up to Civ 6 I really didn't bother with the state of the AI. Of course, there will be people out there who would angrily say otherwise. I just keep on playing the game because I love it.

    Criticisms about the AI never stopped me to like the game, nor should people who say they love the game be seen as an attack to those who don't. :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  16. Council 13

    Council 13 Chieftain

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    I am certainly discouraged. AI is making more units now.. but doesn't always use them. Never uses siege engines when outside of a city to attack units. I mean honestly.... what the hell. Some improved coordination in their attacks... but still no where things should be at this point.
     
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  17. Sven

    Sven Chieftain

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    How about that. Thanks, I didn't notice. :)
     
  18. Beaver79

    Beaver79 Warlord

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    Yeah siege units not attacking anything but a city is the worst AI programming I've ever seen. Sometimes civs make nothing but siege units as well so they basically can't do anything.

    Units will also just go one at a time up to your walls or units and suicide themselves into them with hope of accomplishing anything. In Civ V they would send enough units to take a city or not bother sending any at all. If they were losing they would retreat. If attacking a unit meant the attacking unit died they wouldn't suicide. Civ Vs AI wasn't good but it was leaps and bounds ahead of VI.
     
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  19. Council 13

    Council 13 Chieftain

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    Yes to all this.... I mean, how are the simplest of things still not working? If you purchased the game new and all the expansions... you're in well over $100... and the AI doesn't even know how to use some units???
     
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  20. cvb

    cvb Prince

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    Perhaps by a final AI layer / final balancing just still missing? I mean, I don't think, that the full map editor / world builder is all they talked about when they mentioned "surprises" and that they are "still not done". Maybe I'm a dreamer, but ...
    Good approach, but in the end the effective "competitiveness" of the AIplayers is, what counts.

    .
     

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