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[member66170]

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[mattpilot]

I'd say this is a bug, no? Hope it will get fixed in a official patch, cause this is like a no-brainer... to me at least.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Yeah, I'd call this one a bug. By far the most abusive, IMO, is when a Scout gets the weapon upgrade from a goody hut and becomes a spearman; he keeps the "all terrain costs 1 MP and can cross rivers without stopping" scout abilities. This would be pretty decent in any era, but the 2-move spearmen eventually upgrade to Mechanized Infantry... a 4-move, 50-power unit. So this sort of mod is fairly essential IMO.

When I originally saw the title of this thread, I thought you were referring to something different: buying one of the type-specific promotions (+25% vs. mounted units) that become eventually obsolete once there are no longer any units of that type in the game. It'd be nice if the XP for those sorts of promotions could be refunded at certain points. For instance, upgrading any unit to Mechanized Infantry could remove the anti-Mounted promotion with anti-Armor, or refund enough XP to buy a replacement.

 

[Inverted]

What's even more silly is that if you upgrade a crossbowman to riflemen it keeps its ranged bonus promotions that obviously do nothing for a riflemen. It would be great if they could be converted to the melee equivalent.

 

[Rashiminos]

I have a level 4 swordsman. By your mod, I would lose an experienced unit advantage for no good reason. Retained promotions are not a bug, but a feature.

 

[Quetz]

Thanks for this.

 

[Tomice]

Lord Olleus, thx for your mod!

But is it possible that it messes with the "Embarkment" promotion?

Before, I had the feeling EVERY unit, even the already existing ones, would get the embarkment promotion after the corresponding tech was researched, but now it seems like I have to spend XP for it!

 

[JeBuS27]

@Tomice, they only get the Embarkment promotion when they enter friendly territory. So either get them into your own borders, or someone else's who is friendly with you.

 

[Tomice]

Oh! Thx for the info. Do you know what's the rationale behind it?

 

[Thalassicus]

There's one thing I realized about unique units when doing the civilizations balance mod. I think the developers balanced Civs with UU upgrades sticking around in mind.

The Minutemen or Janissaries, for example, would be rather weak if they can't upgrade their special promotion. They have weaker strength than longswordsmen, quickly made obsolete by riflemen, and you can't upgrade to them from earlier units. Some of the promotions make sense to not be passed along (like the anti-mounted bonus of pikemen to riflemen) but some of the UU promotions seem designed to be an overall buff to the civ's unit line.

In short, it would make sense to obsolete "normal unit" unique promotions while keeping UU promotions.

 

[Tomice]

@Thal: Never thought about it that way, have to check it out! Smart conclusion.

 

[Derax]

I agree nice bugfix!

 

[clearbeard]

What's even more silly is that if you upgrade a crossbowman to riflemen it keeps its ranged bonus promotions that obviously do nothing for a riflemen. It would be great if they could be converted to the melee equivalent.

I personally don't find the ranged promos to be particularly inspiring in the early game. Archers and crossbowmen do their jobs well enough that I don't need to use the promos, and just save the levels until they're upgraded and can take useful ones as riflemen.

That said, I'd personally prefer to see anti-tank turned into ranged, defensive units, and have crossbowmen upgrade to them. I might change my mind after playtesting that, but at least I might actually have a couple then, instead of exclusively infantry and artillery. Gunships could incidentally become upgrades for cavalry and lancers, adding late game usefulness to those units, as well.

 

[Thalassicus]

That's a very interesting idea clearbeard, about AT units... it would provide a late-game semi-ranged unit cross between short range and artillery. Most early AT guns were basically just small, specialized, direct-fire artillery. Sorta offtopic from promotions, but I really like this idea... will investigate further.

 

[Gusss]

I think that even UU promotions should not be kept, having a rifleman attacking 2x/turn and archers ignoring rought terrain are way too powerfull.

 

[Plasmabunny]

I think that even UU promotions should not be kept, having a rifleman attacking 2x/turn and archers ignoring rought terrain are way too powerfull.

Yeah, but how scouts actually luck out and get that goody hut? Maybe 1 or 2 per game, if your lucky.

Plus the riflemen attacking twice isn't an entirely chinese phenomenom. High level units with the blitz promotion can do even better, and attack once for every point of movement. The difference is, the chu ko nu won't necessarily have the promotions needed to fight on without being crippled by casualties. Unlike crossbowmen, riflemen are short range units that must fight, and likely take damage in order to inflict damage.

So yeah, being able to attack twice is powerful, but if you use it too often, you can kiss your promoted chu-ko-nu goodbye to an enemy cannon or cavalry.

Plus once you lose a chu-ko-nu turned rifleman, you can't easily replace it if the technology has become obsolete.