3rd Battle of Kharkov

[techumseh]

Does anyone have any information or links to TO&E (table of organization and equipment) for the Germans and Soviet forces that fought the 3rd Battle of Kharkov? This battle was fought after Stalingrad and before Kursk at the beginning of 1943.

I'm looking for the standard makeup of German (incl. SS) divisions and Soviet infantry divisions and tank corps (incl. Gds) eg. how many battalions of which type in each formation, including what the primary weapons were. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Strelok22]

^ Well mate...I guess you already have checked wikipedia.I didnt.But I will try to "dig up" something from the russian sites.I am OK with russian language so I will try to find something later

 

[techumseh]

Yes, I have. There is some good information, esp. for Soviet Tank and Mech Corps, but I'm not sure what differences in equipment or organization the Guards units had. More info on the makeup of infantry divisions and the Popov mobile group would be useful, plus the equipment and organization of the VVS would be helpful. Anything on the Germans also. Thanks.

 

[Civinator]

Here is a very good site for WW II OOBs and every kind of information about it:
http://niehorster.orbat.com/000_admin/000oob.htm

 

[techumseh]

Thanks, that is a good site. However, I'm not so much in need of OOB information; I have excellent data at the divisional level. I'm looking for the makup of standard formations at the end of 1942, ie. how many infantry battalions, artillery battalions, engineers, AT and AA units, etc. in a Soviet infantry division (or tank corps, or panzer division, etc) -edit- and what kind of equipment did they have?-

Since most division level units on both sides were worn down from the Stalingrad campaign, I can adjust the numbers of the component units downward to reflect historical strength of the larger formations in the scenario.

What do people think of an operational level scenario from the eastern front? Is there interest in playing one?

 

[JPetroski]

I definitely have an interest in playing one. I'm not very familiar with the battle you chose, but it will be interesting, I'm sure!

 

[Civinator]

Thanks, that is a good site. However, I'm not so much in need of OOB information; I have excellent data at the divisional level. I'm looking for the makup of standard formations at the end of 1942, ie. how many infantry battalions, artillery battalions, engineers, AT and AA units, etc. in a Soviet infantry division (or tank corps, or panzer division, etc) -edit- and what kind of equipment did they have?-

Since most division level units on both sides were worn down from the Stalingrad campaign, I can adjust the numbers of the component units downward to reflect historical strength of the larger formations in the scenario.

What do people think of an operational level scenario from the eastern front? Is there interest in playing one?

As you said, the link is really a good site -an excellent site. If you click on the countries you can receive the the organization and equipement of a lot of standard military formations for different years. For example if you click on Russia, you get all the information you are asking about for Russian Tank Corps, Russian Tank brigades and Russian Motorized Brigades at January 10th, 1943 (tank by tank, vehicle by vehicle and gun by gun). The same for other WW II countries among them Germany.

 

[techumseh]

Thanks, I took another look and I did find what I needed to put together a Soviet Tank Corps at battalion level. I'm still looking for the makeup of other Soviet and German division level units at the start of 1943, however.

Soviet Tank Corps, Jan '43 (full strength)

6 motorized infantry battalions
4 T-34 battalions
2 T-70 battalions
2 SU-76 battalions
1 SU-122 battalion
1 recon battalion (type?)
4 81mm mortar battalions
1 76mm artillery battalion
1 47mm anti-tank battalion
1 37mm AA battalion

total = 23 units

 

[Strelok22]

Damn it...my PC got "fried".I have to change some things but i have bigger problems like school.So dont count on me mate.I am very sorry but I wont be able to do anything related to computers.Good luck with the scenario

 

[Hans99]

Are you planning to use battalion level as the smallest unit ?

 

[techumseh]

Are you planning to use battalion level as the smallest unit ?

I was, but after doing some of the calculations, I realized that the campaign was too large for battalion sized units. I'm resizing it for brigade and regiment sized units, which will keep the unit count within reason. Even so, it will be a very good sized scenario.

 

[Hans99]

Ok, because battalion size is a overkill for large maps. Do you want to play on a giga map or a large map ?

 

[techumseh]

The map is 60X140.