Battle of Italy 1943 - 1945 ToTPP 0.18.4 and Lua scenario, Updated to Patch 1.3

[tootall_2012]

My computer is definitely the problem. I think maybe the bat file was not executed correctly.
Anyway, I will try to reinstall your scenario the following weekend. I'm sure, I will fix that 'bug' in one or another way.

Just to let you know, in this scenario, its the seasons.lua file that automatically handles the switching of the terrain graphic files. The batch file is only being used to switch the unit or cities bmp files and nothing else.

In any case, keep me posted to see if you resolved the problem or not.

 

[techumseh]

My computer is definitely the problem. I think maybe the bat file was not executed correctly.
Anyway, I will try to reinstall your scenario the following weekend. I'm sure, I will fix that 'bug' in one or another way.

I've had a similar issue in the past. As far as I can recall, it has to do with the coastal graphics at the bottom of the Terrain2 file. Check those.

 

[civ2units]

Thanks for the tip

 

[Fairline]

I certainly respect the opinions of experienced CivFanatics members like yourself and others and often take them into consideration when making adjustments to subsequent versions of any of my given scenarios. Though I don’t wish to open a whole debate on the subject, I felt I should at least provide a little more explanation on how I went about determining the strength of all the units in the game.

I often relied in the past on the work of other designers to evaluate the combat strengths of units in my own scenarios, particularly WWII ones, but never truly found a common baseline amongst them which complicated matters for me.

As such, I’d been working for the last few years on a very personal system that would allow me to create a database of sorts that had predetermined combat strengths for all ground, air and naval unit types which would then allow me to recreate any WWII scenario without having to research this each time.

As such, I’ve been using a game called ‘Advanced Squad Leader’, which has an extensive repertoire of the ground forces of all the nations that fought in WWII, as my primary data source for establishing the unit base lines and used a very specific set of parameters and methodology for computing all my numbers. Many may argue, rightly or wrongly, that my concept, data source or the methodology I used as being flawed or in error but all I can say is that I applied it rigorously and consistently throughout my process.

Overall the relative strengths between the units of the different nations seemed consistent and logical with regards my overall experience in these matters and though it may be true that a few of the computational results may have surprised me (case in point the British Veteran unit), in the end, I tried to remain as faithful to my process as possible if it was to remain reliable.

In general, I believe that the results were born out during my play testing as the scenario and unit capabilities in the 'Battle of Italy' feel well balanced. At least, that is, in my personal opinion.

Again people may agree or not with my approach, but as the designer, I made a decision that I believe was consistent and logical (if perhaps, at times, imperfect) in helping me design my scenario. I hope this helps explain why things are the way they are.

Sincerely.

Sounds like a good way to get consistency for your unit stats

Also, your mention of ASL brings back some fond memories. Did you ever play Steel Panthers?

 

[Fairline]

I've had a similar issue in the past. As far as I can recall, it has to do with the coastal graphics at the bottom of the Terrain2 file. Check those.

Strictly speaking the top left pixel of each terrain tile should be the 'magenta' 128 R: 80 G: 128 B, or at least the same consistent colour across all the terrain files to define the 'invisible' portion of each terrain graphic. I only checked terrain 1 before and it does seem there are 3 different colours used for this pixel on the terrain 3 file with the coastal tiles. @civ2units try filling the background colour with 128 R: 80 G: 128 B for the coastal tiles.

 

[civ2units]

I've found a solution to fix the graphical problem.
I've exchanged your terrain.bmp files with those from my Reformation scenario and it works now. Please don`t ask me why but it works.
Currently I'm copying the terrain graphic tiles in Photoshop to fit the terrains for your scenario.

 

[tootall_2012]

Hi all,

So I've attached a patch 1.1 zip file to this post that should address two issues:

1. As reported by @JPetroski in post #5, I've added a bit of code to the onEnterTile.lua file that should prevent units that entered a fully stacked tile using a GoTo command from looping.
2. As reported by @civ2units in post #30, I've modified all the summer terrain.bmp files, as none of their ocean or coastal tile graphics backgrounds had the proper RGB magenta color scheme (128 R: 80 G: 128 B)

You can simply copy the folders into your Battle of Italy folder.

Let me know if you are still encountering issues.

See post #53 below for new Patch 1.2.

 

[tootall_2012]

I've had a similar issue in the past. As far as I can recall, it has to do with the coastal graphics at the bottom of the Terrain2 file. Check those.

Strictly speaking the top left pixel of each terrain tile should be the 'magenta' 128 R: 80 G: 128 B, or at least the same consistent colour across all the terrain files to define the 'invisible' portion of each terrain graphic. I only checked terrain 1 before and it does seem there are 3 different colours used for this pixel on the terrain 3 file with the coastal tiles. @civ2units try filling the background colour with 128 R: 80 G: 128 B for the coastal tiles.

Thanks to you both. I've attached a patch in post #47 above, which should hopefully resolve the problem for anyone of may have been experiencing it.

Sounds like a good way to get consistency for your unit stats

Of course, I don't claim to have created a perfect system, simply one that has provided me with a foundation to work with. Thanks to the Prof's template, one can further increase unit distinctiveness by applying some of or all of the following features: unit veterancy % chance rate, combat bonuses, promotions/demotions and traits. Very useful if you want to apply special traits according to different battle, historical or environmental situations.

Also, your mention of ASL brings back some fond memories. Did you ever play Steel Panthers?

ASL was one of my favourite boardgames for many years, until it became too much of a rules monster for my personal tastes.

The name Steel Panther sounds familiar though I can't say I've ever seen or played it. Looking it up yesterday it seems a little bit like Order of Battle or Panzer Corps.

 

[Fairline]

Hi all,

So I've attached a patch 1.1 zip file to this post that should address two issues:

1. As reported by @JPetroski in post #5, I've added a bit of code to the onEnterTile.lua file that should prevent units that entered a fully stacked tile using a GoTo command from looping.
2. As reported by @civ2units in post #30, I've modified all the summer terrain.bmp files, as none of their ocean or coastal tile graphics backgrounds had the proper RGB magenta color scheme (128 R: 80 G: 128 B)

You can simply copy the folders into your Battle of Italy folder.

Let me know if you are still encountering issues.

Sorry for not clearly explaining before - but all the terrain tiles need to have the same consistent background colour to ensure the graphical glitch doesn't occur in-game. Currently the terrain 2 and 4 files have background colour on the 'hill' tiles set to R 135: G 135: B 135. While this isn't a problem for me with my current computer, this sort of inconsistency on the 'invisible' colour had caused similar graphical glitches to that experienced by Civ2units on previous computers (don't ask me why that in itself is inconsistent!)

 

[Fairline]

Thanks to you both. I've attached a patch in post #47 above, which should hopefully resolve the problem for anyone of may have been experiencing it.


Of course, I don't claim to have created a perfect system, simply one that has provided me with a foundation to work with. Thanks to the Prof's template, one can further increase unit distinctiveness by applying some of or all of the following features: unit veterancy % chance rate, combat bonuses, promotions/demotions and traits. Very useful if you want to apply special traits according to different battle, historical or environmental situations.


ASL was one of my favourite boardgames for many years, until it became too much of a rules monster for my personal tastes.

The name Steel Panther sounds familiar though I can't say I've ever seen or played it. Looking it up yesterday it seems a little bit like Order of Battle or Panzer Corps.

Steel panthers is a really old top-down turn-based game (not unlike panzer general / panzer corps as you say but much more detailed), which has the same squad-based tactical wargame feel as ASL.

 

[tootall_2012]

Sorry for not clearly explaining before - but all the terrain tiles need to have the same consistent background colour to ensure the graphical glitch doesn't occur in-game. Currently the terrain 2 and 4 files have background colour on the 'hill' tiles set to R 135: G 135: B 135. While this isn't a problem for me with my current computer, this sort of inconsistency on the 'invisible' colour had caused similar graphical glitches to that experienced by Civ2units on previous computers (don't ask me why that in itself is inconsistent!)

As civ2units problem seemed to be specifically related to ocean tiles I concentrated on the fix there.

All the same thanks for the heads up. I’ll work on applying the same fix for all the other terrain tiles over the next few days.

 

[tootall_2012]

As civ2units problem seemed to be specifically related to ocean tiles I concentrated on the fix there.

All the same thanks for the heads up. I’ll work on applying the same fix for all the other terrain tiles over the next few days.

In the meantime, I've reloaded the Patch 1.1 zip in post #47 because I realized I had forgotten to apply the same GoTo loop fix when a unit entered a tile with an air unit present.

 

[tootall_2012]

Hi all,

So I've attached a Patch 1.2 zip file to this post, which replaces patch 1.1 of post #47 (I've deleted that zip as it is obsolete):

1. As reported by @JPetroski in post #5, I've added a bit of code to the onEnterTile.lua file that handles the looping that occurs when using a GoTo command to enter either an overstacked tile or one that contains an air unit.
2. As reported by @civ2units in post #30, I've modified all the terrain.bmp files so that the backgrounds have the proper RGB magenta color scheme (128 R: 80 G: 128 B)

You can simply copy the folders into your Battle of Italy folder.

Let me know if you are still encountering issues.

See post #76 below for new Patch 1.3.

 

[JPetroski]

Outstanding. I hope to have a fuller report of a playtest soon. I'm at the kid's house this week with only a laptop and this scenario to keep my sanity after chasing them around all day!

 

[JPetroski]

Ok, so after about 5 or 6 attempts, I finally got a start I feel really good about. I was able to secure Sicily in 5 turns. This took a **lot** of trial and error over the first half dozen matches though to really understand how to fully support an offensive. It's super fun once you figure it out and I hope to see it in more of your scenarios (and will probably borrow some things heavily for mine) because I think you've done a marvelous job with supply, as well as stacking limits. I was a bit hesitant with the latter up front but now that I understand it better, it just adds such a layer, so really well done.

I hope some day TNO will return and give us the ability to draw on the map in real time so there will be a better visual of the supply changes, but we have to work with what we have.

To that end, I'd make a suggestion. Perhaps you could make two uses out of the pollution icon. Instead of just having it as a ship icon, consider a more neutral marker that could be placed if the player pressed a key. "Show supply range for this turn" or some such." Have the markers display and then wipe at the players choice, or after the turn ends. This visual, I think would be most welcome for planning and likely wouldn't require any more than an artistic compromise. Perhaps such supply markers only show up on land, so as not to be confused with radar markers for ships at sea?

My other suggestion: is there really any true benefit to having those sea mines damage aircraft or errant units? They're perfectly visible so it's completely accidental if someone runs into them. They serve an entirely strategicly detrimental purpose by their very existence so I don't think there's any need to have units that accidentally run into them suffer damage. I'd suggest using Lua to prohibit the conflict with a text box explaining they can't be attacked. I don't think there's any need for any penalty beyond that, personally.

I'm having a marvelous time. This is a tough scenario where combined arms and more importantly **support** are imperative and I love how you've handled both. I'm going to need to dig through the code and figure out how you've done things like let the supply trucks retain full movement at a slivers strength, for example.

I also really like how some but not ALL combat results in a death.

It's a wonderful scenario and I'm happy I have a full week or so to play it. I do think it's your best and it's inspiring, fun, and not at THAT complicated if someone is willing to play the first 5 to 10 turns 3 or 4 times to learn. I mean, I'm not going to pretend I have put in the effort to understand the dynamics of conflict and the dynamic attack/defend ratings that change given circumstances, but they are fairly intuitive and more or less what you'd expect so you don't really need to know the intricacies to be successful.

Really well done!

 

[Prof. Garfield]

To that end, I'd make a suggestion. Perhaps you could make two uses out of the pollution icon. Instead of just having it as a ship icon, consider a more neutral marker that could be placed if the player pressed a key. "Show supply range for this turn" or some such." Have the markers display and then wipe at the players choice, or after the turn ends. This visual, I think would be most welcome for planning and likely wouldn't require any more than an artistic compromise. Perhaps such supply markers only show up on land, so as not to be confused with radar markers for ships at sea?

The general library has marker functions to do a lot of the work required. However, they may be a disadvantage, since markers change visible improvements and not actual improvements, so a unit that can see the tile will make the marker invisible. That said, units only update the visible map when they move, so it may be a minor point to just press a key every so often to refresh supply limits.

My other suggestion: is there really any true benefit to having those sea mines damage aircraft or errant units? They're perfectly visible so it's completely accidental if someone runs into them. They serve an entirely strategicly detrimental purpose by their very existence so I don't think there's any need to have units that accidentally run into them suffer damage. I'd suggest using Lua to prohibit the conflict with a text box explaining they can't be attacked. I don't think there's any need for any penalty beyond that, personally.

Registering a combatModifier to set relevant attack power to 0 against certain units will cause the attack to be cancelled based on default template code.

I'm going to need to dig through the code and figure out how you've done things like let the supply trucks retain full movement at a slivers strength, for example.

FYI, you can now get that feature from the customCosmic module (configured in customCosmicSettings.lua). Of course, it could still be worthwhile to look that up.

 

[tootall_2012]

Ok, so after about 5 or 6 attempts, I finally got a start I feel really good about. I was able to secure Sicily in 5 turns. This took a **lot** of trial and error over the first half dozen matches though to really understand how to fully support an offensive. It's super fun once you figure it out and I hope to see it in more of your scenarios (and will probably borrow some things heavily for mine) because I think you've done a marvelous job with supply, as well as stacking limits. I was a bit hesitant with the latter up front but now that I understand it better, it just adds such a layer, so really well done.

That's one thing about our little community that I very much appreciate, i.e. that we are able to build off each others ideas to try and create the best scenarios that we can.

To that end, I'd make a suggestion. Perhaps you could make two uses out of the pollution icon. Instead of just having it as a ship icon, consider a more neutral marker that could be placed if the player pressed a key. "Show supply range for this turn" or some such." Have the markers display and then wipe at the players choice, or after the turn ends. This visual, I think would be most welcome for planning and likely wouldn't require any more than an artistic compromise. Perhaps such supply markers only show up on land, so as not to be confused with radar markers for ships at sea?

Hmm, I'm not certain I fully visualize what you had in mind here. You may want to elaborate (though this may be a 'little' beyond my skill set).

My other suggestion: is there really any true benefit to having those sea mines damage aircraft or errant units? They're perfectly visible so it's completely accidental if someone runs into them. They serve an entirely strategicly detrimental purpose by their very existence so I don't think there's any need to have units that accidentally run into them suffer damage. I'd suggest using Lua to prohibit the conflict with a text box explaining they can't be attacked. I don't think there's any need for any penalty beyond that, personally.

I'll be honest, this particular feedback is unexpected. In all my play throughs, I don't believe I encountered this problem once.

All the same your suggestions is a good one and based on the Prof.'s recommendation to use the traits functions, I've already tested a fix that prevents air and naval units with an AF > 0 from being able to attack sea mines (though in the case of air units the 'attack' will still put an end to its turn).

I could do a quick release patch 1.3 though I'm not sure if I should wait for more feedback first to see if there are other potential changes.

I'm having a marvelous time. This is a tough scenario where combined arms and more importantly **support** are imperative...

Based on all your feedback to date, it's not clear whether you've ever proceeded with your 2nd invasion yet. As I indicated before, the 'real' battle occurs on the mainland, so be prepared to put all your generalship abilities to use because you'll probably have to use them often.

I haven't heard any feedback on the following two items, Blown Bridges and Minefields, I was just wondering if you ever encountered them or not (just to make sure that they are working as expected).

... and I love how you've handled both. I'm going to need to dig through the code and figure out how you've done things like let the supply trucks retain full movement at a slivers strength, for example.

This is one of those situations were I had an idea where I didn't want my trucks or oil tankers to lose their MP's after transferring HP's but had no clue on how to proceed with it so reached out to the Prof. for help and he came back with this wonderful solution.

You can find the code in the onTribeTurnBegin.lua file, between lines 78-175. From the designers perspective, the most important section (starting on line 117) is where you set which units you want to apply the effect to:

-- ==============================================
-- BEGIN RETAINED FULL MP FOR UNIT THAT ARE DAMAGED FUNCTION (by Prof. Garfield)
...

-- IMPORTANT: This is where you set which units will benefit from the full movement allowance
-- specialMovementUnits[unit.type.id] = {rulesMovement,minMovement}
local specialMovementUnits = {
    -- [gen.original.uGalleon.id] = {4,4}, -- galleon has 4 movement in rules, will have max movement of 4
    [object.uOilTankerF.id] = {25,25}, -- oil tanker has 25 movement in rules, will have max movement of 25
    [object.uOilTankerE.id] = {25,25}, -- oil tanker has 25 movement in rules, will have max movement of 25
    [object.uUSTruck.id] = {7,7}, -- US truck has 7 movement in rules, will have max movement of 7
    [object.uUKTruck.id] = {7,7}, -- UK truck has 7 movement in rules, will have max movement of 7
}
...

-- END RETAINED FULL MP FUNCTION ==============================================

 

[JPetroski]

Hmm, I'm not certain I fully visualize what you had in mine here. You may want to elaborate (though this may be a 'little' beyond my skill set).

So you start the scenario with helpful drawings on the map showing where the supply limit is, so people understand that they need to build supply depots. Because we don't have the option to remove or add text to the map after the game starts (which would be really cool someday, if TNO is lurking), the next best thing is using some sort of visual marker. Units are out of the question as you don't have any to spare and they'd create new issues. Fortresses and airfields have purposes, so the only available choice is pollution.

Let's pretend for a moment that you just put a little yellow "X" as the pollution marker instead of the ship. What I'd love to see happen is if I pressed a particular key, little X's would show up on the map showing the range from various supply depots. It would probably be aesthetically more pleasing if they only showed up at the max supply range, but with so many on the map it might also be OK to just fill in the tiles that are "in supply." The key would be to enable their prompt removal as this could be overbearing and really would just be handy as a quick check. If you only had them show on on non-ocean squares, you could still use the little X to mark the approximate spot of a U-Boat as current.

I think this would be useful for scenarios in general that intend to use supply, and I'm pretty sure @Knighttime already has code to an extent, because I believe when I was working on HoF I was testing this with his earlier module and it allowed me to see what was in supply with units being placed/removed. I don't want to speak for him but I think the battle may be half done on this

I'll be honest, this particular feedback is unexpected. In all my play throughs, I don't believe I encountered this problem once.

All the same your suggestions is a good one and based on the Prof.'s recommendation to use the traits functions, I've already tested a fix that prevents air and naval units with an AF > 0 from being able to attack sea mines (though in the case of air units the 'attack' will still put an end to its turn).

I ran into it when I had aircraft at Siracusa and took off east by accident. I don't know if you need to have the attack end its turn. If Civ2 was 3 dimensional surely air units would simply fly over these things. Teleporting them the space over (if free, and at the cost of the normal MP for the mine tile plus destination) or simply having a "nope nope!" buzzer and disallowing the move just like it was an ZOC issue might be better. In my opinion it's just a mistake that can happen that can't be exploited in any way so I don't know that there's need for punishment, but it's your rodeo!

Based on all your feedback to date, it's not clear whether you've ever proceeded with your 2nd invasion yet. As I indicated before, the 'real' battle occurs on the mainland, so be prepared to put all your generalship abilities to use because you'll probably have to use them often.

I haven't! I've played probably 30-40 turns without ever leaving the island! But, as we agreed earlier, it's a good tutorial that lets you see how things go.

I haven't heard any feedback on the following two items, Blown Bridges and Minefields, I was just wondering if you ever encountered them or not (just to make sure that they are working as expected).

The mines are definitely an annoyance and new players would do well to NEVER move a DUKW into a space infantry or an engineer hasn't cleared first. That'll really set you back. The blown bridges are a fun random event. I like how you have them blow at different bridges on different play throughs. In my latest match, the bridge at Termini blew but by this playthrough, I was expecting it, and always had my engineers following my main army a few (well protected) squares back, so I was able to sort it quickly.

 

[tootall_2012]

...
I think this would be useful for scenarios in general that intend to use supply, and I'm pretty sure @Knighttime already has code to an extent, because I believe when I was working on HoF I was testing this with his earlier module and it allowed me to see what was in supply with units being placed/removed. I don't want to speak for him but I think the battle may be half done on this

Ok, I have a better undertanding of what you meant and agree it would indeed be a cool feature to have but this one is above my programming skills.

I ran into it when I had aircraft at Siracusa and took off east by accident. I don't know if you need to have the attack end its turn. If Civ2 was 3 dimensional surely air units would simply fly over these things. Teleporting them the space over (if free, and at the cost of the normal MP for the mine tile plus destination) or simply having a "nope nope!" buzzer and disallowing the move just like it was an ZOC issue might be better. In my opinion it's just a mistake that can happen that can't be exploited in any way so I don't know that there's need for punishment, but it's your rodeo!

It was never my intention to punish the player for this at all. Prior to your reporting this, the situation was simply being handled by the regular game mechanics and the only 'reason' the air unit's MP's are being expended in my current fix is because, as far as I can tell, its not an option that is handled by the traits function.

I haven't! I've played probably 30-40 turns without ever leaving the island! But, as we agreed earlier, it's a good tutorial that lets you see how things go.

Yes that is correct, the Sicilian portion of the campaign makes for an excellent tutorial on learning the game mechanics.

The mines are definitely an annoyance and new players would do well to NEVER move a DUKW into a space infantry or an engineer hasn't cleared first. That'll really set you back. The blown bridges are a fun random event. I like how you have them blow at different bridges on different play throughs. In my latest match, the bridge at Termini blew but by this playthrough, I was expecting it, and always had my engineers following my main army a few (well protected) squares back, so I was able to sort it quickly.

Yes, I felt it was important to include as many random events and unit placements as was feasible into the scenario so that players would never experience the exact same game play.

 

[JPetroski]

So I was only able to play a few turns tonight but I wanted to point out that you were very clever in the way you handled the 2nd invasions, particularly how you dealt with teleporting units without actually adding new ones and instructing the player as to what must be assembled. I ended up going for all three invasions. We will see how the pan out!