3rd party DRM

[Kwami]

Then we'll agree to disagree. As I said I don't have a big issue with DRM in general - it's there to stop thieves.

Yeah, but:

1. It doesn't. Even Denuvo has been cracked on numerous games, sometimes even before release day. Besides that, most players who pirate a game weren't going to pay for it anyway.
2. It can negatively affect game performance.
3. It limits what legitimate customers can do with their games. For instance, Denuvo prevents us from changing the executable and possibly the DLLs, which is going to limit mod potential.
4. It might result in the game no longer being playable by legitimate customers when Denuvo's servers go down, or when Amazon AWS is having a bad day, or whatever.
5. It requires an Internet connection, even if you're playing solo. That might not matter to you, but it matters a lot to me when I travel and don't always have a connection.

But sure, keep parroting the DRM industry's talking points.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Yeah, but:

1. It doesn't. Even Denuvo has been cracked on numerous games, sometimes even before release day. Besides that, most players who pirate a game weren't going to pay for it anyway.
2. It can negatively affect game performance.
3. It limits what legitimate customers can do with their games. For instance, Denuvo prevents us from changing the executable and possibly the DLLs, which is going to limit mod potential.
4. It might result in the game no longer being playable by legitimate customers when Denuvo's servers go down, or when Amazon AWS is having a bad day, or whatever.
5. It requires an Internet connection, even if you're playing solo. That might not matter to you, but it matters a lot to me when I travel and don't always have a connection.

But sure, keep parroting the DRM industry's talking points.

To be clear on point 5 you can play offline. The Total War games, another Sega series has Denuvo and you can play those games offline I just tested it. With point 2 that is true if poorly implemented, otherwise it should have no impact. I cant speak for your other points as I dont know enough about them but I do think they are valid concerns even if I dont share them or feel as strongly. I mostly wanted to address the always online point as I have not found that to be true.

 

[Kwami]

To be clear on point 5 you can play offline. The Total War games, another Sega series has Denuvo and you can play those games offline I just tested it. With point 2 that is true if poorly implemented, otherwise it should have no impact. I cant speak for your other points as I dont know enough about them but I do think they are valid concerns even if I dont share them or feel as strongly. I mostly wanted to address the always online point as I have not found that to be true.

You can only play offline until your token expires. Tokens can expire for many reasons. If enough time has passed, which is probably publisher-determined, it expires. If you change any hardware or overclock your processor or anything like that, it expires. If you install a new version of Windows, it expires. Sometimes, updating Windows seems to trigger it.

I'm worried that switching between my desktop PC and my travel laptop will expire tokens more often than I'd like. I rarely have a useful connection when I'm traveling since broadband just isn't available in some rural parts of the US where family lives. I know that a lot of the details depend on the publisher, but I haven't played a SEGA PC game except for the other Amplitude titles, which didn't have Denuvo, so I'm not familiar with their specific implementation details. I do know that people were very upset about Denuvo in the last Sonic game, though, so I'm not optimistic.

More generally, DRM only hurts paying customers. It's almost always cracked within a few days of release, if not before, and then non-paying "customers" have a better version of the game with fewer limitations than paying customers. It's anti-consumer and just generally a bad idea. This has always been true.

 

[ThunderLizard2]

You can only play offline until your token expires. Tokens can expire for many reasons. If enough time has passed, which is probably publisher-determined, it expires. If you change any hardware or overclock your processor or anything like that, it expires. If you install a new version of Windows, it expires. Sometimes, updating Windows seems to trigger it.

I'm worried that switching between my desktop PC and my travel laptop will expire tokens more often than I'd like. I rarely have a useful connection when I'm traveling since broadband just isn't available in some rural parts of the US where family lives. I know that a lot of the details depend on the publisher, but I haven't played a SEGA PC game except for the other Amplitude titles, which didn't have Denuvo, so I'm not familiar with their specific implementation details. I do know that people were very upset about Denuvo in the last Sonic game, though, so I'm not optimistic.

More generally, DRM only hurts paying customers. It's almost always cracked within a few days of release, if not before, and then non-paying "customers" have a better version of the game with fewer limitations than paying customers. Its anti-consumer and just generally a bad idea. This has always been true.

I don't think it will be cracked that fast. We'll see how often the tokens expire - my guess is not that often. In terms of performance, that's up to Amplitude so hopefully they are decent programmers.

 

[Kwami]

I don't think it will be cracked that fast. We'll see how often the tokens expire - my guess is not that often. In terms of performance, that's up to Amplitude so hopefully they are decent programmers.

Who knows? They aren't saying anything. There are numerous threads about this on the official G2G forum and on the Steam forum, but nobody's saying anything. Though, to be fair, nobody's saying anything about the game at all basically anywhere. Reddit, G2G, CFC, Steam... there's almost no chatter at all. Where'd all the hype go?

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the game was cracked in a few days. It's a big game, so it's a big target. Some Denuvo games were cracked even before release. Many others within days or a week. We'll see. I'd rather just not have Denuvo and not have to care.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The last 'Closed Beta' version of Humankind had Denuvo, and it was noticeably slower to load and respond - this was commented on in several forums. This does not bode well for the performance of the game with Denuvo on first release.

More important than any point brought up above is that the EULA basically allows Denuvo to install or modify virtually any software that it attaches to the game or loads into my computer. So, in effect, I am giving them permission to mess with my computer any way they choose. If I had a stand-alone gaming computer, that would be fine, but I have one machine, and it includes a database of historical information that I have spent over 30 years compiling and from which I have written 16 books and plan to write several more. I don't risk that for anybody, any company, certainly not to play any game.

I was and am very excited about Humankind, and I hope they and Amplitude do well and keep 'pushing the envelop' in 4X 'historical' games, but they'll do it without my participation as long as their game includes Denuvo, or any other 3rd party Let Us Ransom Your Game Back To You software.

 

[Elhoim]

Denuvo is not going to be in the game!

https://www.games2gether.com/amplit...y-amplitude-broke-my-heart?page=5#post-323003

Hi everyone,

Thank you for all your feedback on this, we have been following along and having internal discussions before getting back to you. Based on data from our trial during the Closed Beta, we have decided not to include Denuvo in Humankind at launch.

First, let me explain the reasoning behind our initial decision including Denuvo – We work really hard and pour our hearts into these games we make, and pirating really does affect our ability to keep creating games with you guys.

We’ve been working on this game for more than 4 years now and personally it’s been my dream project for 25 years. We’ve been one of the most wishlisted games on Steam this year, so we know we’re going to be targeted by pirates, more so than any of our previous games. If Denuvo can hold off a cracked version, even just for a few days, that can already really help us to protect our launch.

That being said, our priority is always the best possible experience for the players who buy our games and support us. Denuvo should never impact player performance, and we don’t want to sacrifice quality for you guys.

We believe that it’s possible with the right integration, which is what we wanted to test during the Closed Beta. However, we found that the way it was currently integrated was not good enough, and it’s not something we can fix before release. So, we are taking it out.

I hope this answers your questions. Thank you as always for your support, and we can’t wait to see you all at launch (and beyond!)

- Romain, CCO & Studio Head

 

[Kwami]

Aw, @Elhoim beat me to it! Still, this is great news!

 

[Jkchart]

Denuvo is not going to be in the game!

https://www.games2gether.com/amplit...y-amplitude-broke-my-heart?page=5#post-323003

Huzzah!

@Boris Gudenuf looks like you can get the game

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Huzzah!

@Boris Gudenuf looks like you can get the game

Just read that elsewhere less than 10 minutes ago, and let me make one comment:

This shows some real courage and commitment to their audience/customers on Amplitude's part, and it deserves positive reaction and support from us audience.

They are certainly going to get it from me: pre-ordered and ready to play.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Fantastic news, I wonder if the news about Resident Evil: Village DRM related performance issues influenced the decision?

 

[CoconutTank]

This is great news

 

[KayAU]

All right, back on the wishlist, then.

 

[Savoir10]

So pleased to hear this news.

 

[Kwami]

A quick update! Natco (a developer at Amplitude) confirms that there are no plans to introduce Denuvo into Humankind after release, either. So, we're totally Denuvo free for Humankind!

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

A quick update! Natco (a developer at Amplitude) confirms that there are no plans to introduce Denuvo into Humankind after release, either. So, we're totally Denuvo free for Humankind!

One Month to Release.

Reward these people - Buy the Game so that everybody understands that 3rd Party DRMs not only degrade the gaming experience and insult your honest customers, they Hurt Your Business.

 

[need my speed]

With this change, Amplitude turned me from 'I'll torrent this game' into 'I'll buy this game', provided that the game runs as well as it did on the versions before the last beta (because that one was rather unplayable for me).

Moderator Action: CivFanatics has a zero tolerance policy for discussion of pirated software. leif

 

[Kwami]

One Month to Release.

Reward these people - Buy the Game so that everybody understands that 3rd Party DRMs not only degrade the gaming experience and insult your honest customers, they Hurt Your Business.

Eh... Their statement makes it clear that they only removed Denuvo because it was hurting performance, not because they care about any of the other serious issues that we raised. It also makes clear that they believe that Denuvo is otherwise a good idea because it might buy them a few extra days or weeks before the game is cracked. So, expect to see Denuvo on the next game, if they can get it working. Amplitude isn't suddenly seeing the light.

But also, the game had a lot of serious, major problems in the last beta and I'll be surprised if it's a good game at release. Most Amplitude games aren't. So, it might be best to wait until they're released a few big patches and then buy the game on sale. Then again, you do get a slight discount now and it might be a few months before the next sale, so if the game defies expectations and ends up being really good, then you'd be missing out. Hm.

I'll probably keep my pre-order, though. I bought it through a third-party site to support a streamer that I was watching and I wouldn't want her to lose that money. I know that I'll eventually buy the game anyway.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Eh... Their statement makes it clear that they only removed Denuvo because it was hurting performance, not because they care about any of the other serious issues that we raised. It also makes clear that they believe that Denuvo is otherwise a good idea because it might buy them a few extra days or weeks before the game is cracked. So, expect to see Denuvo on the next game, if they can get it working. Amplitude isn't suddenly seeing the light.

But also, the game had a lot of serious, major problems in the last beta and I'll be surprised if it's a good game at release. Most Amplitude games aren't. So, it might be best to wait until they're released a few big patches and then buy the game on sale. Then again, you do get a slight discount now and it might be a few months before the next sale, so if the game defies expectations and ends up being really good, then you'd be missing out. Hm.

I'll probably keep my pre-order, though. I bought it through a third-party site to support a streamer that I was watching and I wouldn't want her to lose that money. I know that I'll eventually buy the game anyway.

Amplitude may not be seeing all of the light (few companies ever do) but they saw enough to remove what was, for me, an absolute Prohibition on buying or playing the game, so from my perspective, they deserve to be rewarded for that. Call it Conditioning: Rewarding desired behavior may lead them towards more desired behavior in the future.

As for the condition of the game at launch, I found the various 'OpenDev' versions to be perfectly playable, if incomplete and with 'quirks' that needed fixing. Having found those some time ago, I am confident that the worst of those have been addressed. There will still be Problems - as you say, what game doesn't have problems at Launch? I suspect there will immediately be massive Imbalance issues with some Factions or combination of Factions ("If you take X in the Classical and then Z in Medieval and E in Early Modern, it's completely OP!" - there's no way they could have tested every combination, but gamers will discover anomalies and imbalances very quickly.
So, I don't play those combinations until they are fixed - I have lots of other options, and I'm not looking to play any game as efficiently as possible, I'm interested in how enjoyable for me personally the game plays - a purely individual and selfish criteria, which will certainly not be the same for any other gamer.

Bottom line, though: this is the first viable Civ-Alternative 4X Historical (semi-Historical, as are they all) game in a long time, it has a lot of ideas and mechanisms that I find very attractive, so I want the company and the game to be around long enough for those to be developed, improved, and possibly, even to influence Civ VII so that both of the primary 4X Historicals (semi-Historicals) get better. Supporting Amplitude is a win-win for me - at the moment.

 

[Kwami]

Please don't misunderstand. I'm a big Amplitude fan and I'm rooting for them with Humankind. It's a game that I want to play!

But the last beta was really bad. The interface is almost unusable, many of the systems are very barebones and don't really matter, and like most 4X games, killing everybody is the best strategy (because you get district stars, city stars, population stars, and military kill stars all at once!). I left a really long feedback thread on the G2G forum with more detailed complaints, but... I don't know. The game just isn't working right now.

I'm hoping that their internal builds were already much further along than the Poe beta build.