4th and 5th Ring

[Minou]

Did something change with tiles outside the third ring? I was under the impression you could never work them but was 99% certain you gained resources hooked up in the outer rings and also gained housing for example if you built two farms in the 5th ring. In my current game however I just built two fishing boats and a Monastery but received no new housing. Wax this changed in a recent patch?

Normally I would barely care but this is a one city challenge game and those Monasteries would have been so useful as I just hit 27/27 housing....

 

[kaspergm]

Good question. I got power from windmills in the 5th ring as late as last week, so that part has not changed. Just to try to check the obvious first, you're sure those tiles hadn't been accidentally claimed by another city?

 

[Disgustipated]

Are you sure you got housing before? Because I'm pretty sure you don't get the benefit from improvements outside that ring except for strategic and luxury resources. The exception being tourism from seaside resorts/Nat parks/ski resorts I believe.

 

[Minou]

Only one city so the tiles definitely belong to the capital. I am almost positive I got housing from a fourth ring Monastery last time that city state was in a game I played but maybe I was mistaken....

 

[WillowBrook]

I don't recall ever getting housing in the unworkable rings from improvements.

As far as I know you get strategic and luxury resource hookups, tourism from improvements, and power from improvements.

I'm pretty sure you can build national parks including tiles out there, but I don't know if amenities are affected?

 

[Civ Chemist]

I did some testing this summer and I got housing from monasteries and cahokia mounds (but only +1 even after researching techs/civics that give additional housing). Farms, pastures, plantations or fishing boats however did not give any housing.

Are you sure monasteries don't give any housing anymore?

 

[Minou]

Thanks Civ Chemist - you are correct that Monasteries only give 1 Housing even after Colonialism. That was what tripped me up.

I re-loaded my game and bulldozed a mine for a Monastery in the second ring of tiles. Housing went from 27 to 29 as expected. Then I bulldozed a rainforest in the 5th ring and built another Monastery. Housing went from 29 to 30.

I think what caused my initial confusion is that I may have built the initial 4th ring Monastery over a farm, expecting to get 2 Housing. But, removing the farm dropped me by 1 and then the Monastery only gave 1 instead of 2 for a net change of zero so it looked like nothing happened.

 

[WillowBrook]

Thanks Civ Chemist - you are correct that Monasteries only give 1 Housing even after Colonialism. That was what tripped me up.

I re-loaded my game and bulldozed a mine for a Monastery in the second ring of tiles. Housing went from 27 to 29 as expected. Then I bulldozed a rainforest in the 5th ring and built another Monastery. Housing went from 29 to 30.

I think what caused my initial confusion is that I may have built the initial 4th ring Monastery over a farm, expecting to get 2 Housing. But, removing the farm dropped me by 1 and then the Monastery only gave 1 instead of 2 for a net change of zero so it looked like nothing happened.

Thanks for the research - another little oddity to keep in mind.

 

[Pietato]

Thanks Civ Chemist - you are correct that Monasteries only give 1 Housing even after Colonialism. That was what tripped me up.

I re-loaded my game and bulldozed a mine for a Monastery in the second ring of tiles. Housing went from 27 to 29 as expected. Then I bulldozed a rainforest in the 5th ring and built another Monastery. Housing went from 29 to 30.

I think what caused my initial confusion is that I may have built the initial 4th ring Monastery over a farm, expecting to get 2 Housing. But, removing the farm dropped me by 1 and then the Monastery only gave 1 instead of 2 for a net change of zero so it looked like nothing happened.

The 4th ring farm gave housing?

 

[Aurelesk]

tourism from improvements

Yes, but in fact, no.

This is was true 1 year ago. I guess it is still true:

Tourism from yield tile improvement do not accumulate (Culture tiles, Kampung, Seaside Resort...). They show some Tourism on the Tourism lens, but the lifetime Tourism is still 0.

National Park on the 4-5 ring do work. But the Appeal of the tiles is set to 0 (or 4 for Moutain) if they are more than 3 tiles away from a city. So it is unlickely to have a National Park of a 4-5 ring, because you need all the tiles belong to the same city.

 

[WillowBrook]

Yes, but in fact, no.

This is was true 1 year ago. I guess it is still true:

Tourism from yield tile improvement do not accumulate (Culture tiles, Kampung, Seaside Resort...). They show some Tourism on the Tourism lens, but the lifetime Tourism is still 0.

National Park on the 4-5 ring do work. But the Appeal of the tiles is set to 0 (or 4 for Moutain) if they are more than 3 tiles away from a city. So it is unlickely to have a National Park of a 4-5 ring, because you need all the tiles belong to the same city.

Interesting, thanks for the info. I'm curious if all the tooltip info in your earlier post is accurate, as we know the UI is not completely reliable.

As for national parks, I'm pretty sure I've had a 4th ring tile or two included, but they likely were mountains. I'll have to pay more attention...

 

[Elhoim]

I think this highlights a bit an issue I have with the base structure of Civ, which is that you are managing a collection of cities instead of an empire.

 

[qadams]

I think this highlights a bit an issue I have with the base structure of Civ, which is that you are managing a collection of cities instead of an empire.

That's a very good point, one I hadn't thought of before. The same kind of thing comes up when trying to build dams, where you're forced to place them city by city as opposed to making an overall logical choice. Maybe the game should be renamed City Manager instead of Civilization.

 

[Pfeffersack]

I didn't know about getting power...that's good to know, since I always hesitate to use tiles (especially land ones) inside the first three rings for wind turbines or solar panels because of the often limited space.

 

[Aurelesk]

As for national parks, I'm pretty sure I've had a 4th ring tile or two included, but they likely were mountains. I'll have to pay more attention...

You probably did, do not worry. All National Parks generate Tourism, and you can have a National Park when 4 adjacent diamond-shaped unimproved tiles with breathtaking appeal (4 or higher) belong to the same city.

But there is an hidden mechanic that set the Appeal of the tile to 0 when they are not in the 3 tiles range of a city (except Moutain that are set to 4). That is why it is so hard to have a National Park in the 4th and 5th rings: the Appeal is set to 0, and when it is not, the tiles may belong to an other city with no possibility to switch the tiles to belong to your city.

Let me explain this:
You have a city with the tiles up to the 5th ring. All tiles have unimproved Forest, so each tiles have 6 to 7 Appeal. Normally, you could put a National Park everywhere. But, those that are 4 tiles and 5 tiles away from your city have an Appeal set to 0: you cannot put a National there.
A valiant Civilization get the very good idea to settle a city right on your border. Now, all the tiles that are 1, 2 and 3 tiles away from that city update their Appeal, even the tiles that belong to you! Now, all the tiles near your new neighboor can have a National Park.

 

[Pietato]

I think this highlights a bit an issue I have with the base structure of Civ, which is that you are managing a collection of cities instead of an empire.

Very much this. Food and power are the biggest offenders. A city starves while right next door a city has 8 floodplains full of wheat...

 

[Stavangerchj]

To add to that

You probably did, do not worry. All National Parks generate Tourism, and you can have a National Park when 4 adjacent diamond-shaped unimproved tiles with breathtaking appeal (4 or higher) belong to the same city.

But there is an hidden mechanic that set the Appeal of the tile to 0 when they are not in the 3 tiles range of a city (except Moutain that are set to 4). That is why it is so hard to have a National Park in the 4th and 5th rings: the Appeal is set to 0, and when it is not, the tiles may belong to an other city with no possibility to switch the tiles to belong to your city.

Let me explain this:
You have a city with the tiles up to the 5th ring. All tiles have unimproved Forest, so each tiles have 6 to 7 Appeal. Normally, you could put a National Park everywhere. But, those that are 4 tiles and 5 tiles away from your city have an Appeal set to 0: you cannot put a National there.
A valiant Civilization get the very good idea to settle a city right on your border. Now, all the tiles that are 1, 2 and 3 tiles away from that city update their Appeal, even the tiles that belong to you! Now, all the tiles near your new neighboor can have a National Park.

To add to that, Eiffel tower doesn't improve the appeal in those tiles either.